When we argue that one component sounds significantly different or even better than a similar component, we need to remove all subjective influences in a reliable test of that allegation. Nothing better to do that than a DBX test.
Maybe XKI and I are the only people who can detect. We only tell you what our ears telling us. Measurement may say no difference but our ears do, so it maybe just our ears are defective,
All boiled down, that's all there is. Rather strange that I can pick out which link is being used without actually checking. I must be psychic. Or retarded. (Don't even think about commenting on that. )
Re: Glass Toslink Cables « Reply #63 on Feb 13, 2012, 9:31pm »
Many would argue if it shows on measurement you would hear it, I beg to differ that we don't hear exact same thing based on ears and experience. You may find XPA-1 to be the greatest amps in the entire galaxy but that fact remain what sound awesome to you maybe just decent to others. I think life would be boring if we all human were all the same; we wont come up any idea, innovation and among other things.
Many would argue if it shows on measurement you would hear it, I beg to differ that we don't hear exact same thing based on ears and experience. You may find XPA-1 to be the greatest amps in the entire galaxy but that fact remain what sound awesome to you maybe just decent to others. I think life would be boring if we all human were all the same; we wont come up any idea, innovation and among other things.
Then you shift the variable from the source or I/C to your ears. That is perfectly plausible and scientific indeed. We are sensitive to different frequencies. I can live with that
I don't think that you are either. I believe that maybe you are living out a preference. The mind does work wonders in affirming prejudices.
Oh boy. So HDMI and COAX sound better to me than my current (probably flawed) TOSLINK and that means I'm living out a preference? I agree that your premise is plausible but, in this case, 2 good sounding links trumps 1 lesser sounding link. Prejudice? Hardly! I would go 100% fiber if it was even equal. It is not!
I don't think that you are either. I believe that maybe you are living out a preference. The mind does work wonders in affirming prejudices.
Oh boy. So HDMI and COAX sound better to me than my current (probably flawed) TOSLINK and that means I'm living out a preference? I agree that your premise is plausible but, in this case, 2 good sounding links trumps 1 lesser sounding link. Prejudice? Hardly! I would go 100% fiber if it was even equal. It is not!
How did you compare? maybe I'm doing it the wrong way?
I don't think that you are either. I believe that maybe you are living out a preference. The mind does work wonders in affirming prejudices.
Oh boy. So HDMI and COAX sound better to me than my current (probably flawed) TOSLINK and that means I'm living out a preference? I agree that your premise is plausible but, in this case, 2 good sounding links trumps 1 lesser sounding link. Prejudice? Hardly! I would go 100% fiber if it was even equal. It is not!
I find HDMI and coax to be sound good but not toslink. When I used to have my Yamaha RXV-1 in the good old days, when connected both coax and toslink under auto input it gives coax a priority over toslink, why? Yamaha explain about jitter on toslink is higher than coax thus give better sound. I don't think you're smarter than Yamaha engineers are you?
Oh boy. So HDMI and COAX sound better to me than my current (probably flawed) TOSLINK and that means I'm living out a preference? I agree that your premise is plausible but, in this case, 2 good sounding links trumps 1 lesser sounding link. Prejudice? Hardly! I would go 100% fiber if it was even equal. It is not!
How did you compare? maybe I'm doing it the wrong way?
There was no comparison needed. When I walk into the listening room and it sound 'funny', I usually check which input is selected. 9 out of 10 times, it's set to what I call BR Fiber. It just doesn't sound right.
Please, don't think that I might say you are doing 'it' the wrong way. Heaven forbid! Not an option. I'm not able to make blind tests or do extensive comparisons. All I know id=s that with my setup, TOSLINK is lacking. That is all. End of line. Over and out!
Hey PCGUY. Don't ever stop what you do here. It's like brain candy.
Oh boy. So HDMI and COAX sound better to me than my current (probably flawed) TOSLINK and that means I'm living out a preference? I agree that your premise is plausible but, in this case, 2 good sounding links trumps 1 lesser sounding link. Prejudice? Hardly! I would go 100% fiber if it was even equal. It is not!
I find HDMI and coax to be sound good but not toslink. When I used to have my Yamaha RXV-1 in the good old days, when connected both coax and toslink under auto input it gives coax a priority over toslink, why? Yamaha explain about jitter on toslink is higher than coax thus give better sound. I don't think you're smarter than Yamaha engineers are you?
Re: Glass Toslink Cables « Reply #70 on Feb 13, 2012, 9:52pm »
Hometheater magazine feels coax is better than toslink. These are professional reviewer and based their review mostly on blind test and not measurement.
Joined: Aug 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 225 Location: Savannah, GA area
Re: Glass Toslink Cables « Reply #71 on Feb 13, 2012, 9:52pm »
If a power cable is of sufficient guage to carry the amperage that is demanded of it, then no it wont affect the sound quality. Every amplifier power cable( every electrical device for that matter) made or sold in the US, MUST be able to carry whatever current the device requires plus a small bit of headroom. So, a 500 dollar power cord will not make any difference in sound than whatever cord comes with the unit. A fiber optic cable carrys 1's and 0's, the only way that the sound can be degraded is due to a bad cable or due to a problem with the source or destination unit. If everything operates properly, there is no real difference, only percieved ones. Psychoacoustics- they are a nasty SOB. Interconnects are somewhat different only in that you want to have adequate shielding on them to reject all rfi/emi interference(noise). Making them from silver isnt going to change the sound. Different components sound different due to the different qualities of the electrical devices inside and many other factors, while wire OTOH, is just wire, be it made from copper or silver or unobtanium.
Sony Bravia KDL55NX810 UMC-1 XPA-2 @4 ohms/ch on mids/highs 2x Soundcraftsmen PM860 amps @ 4 ohms/ch on bass 2x DIY 4 way full range towers w/15 inch subs tuned to 22 hz PS3 X360
How did you compare? maybe I'm doing it the wrong way?
There was no comparison needed. When I walk into the listening room and it sound 'funny', I usually check which input is selected. 9 out of 10 times, it's set to what I call BR Fiber. It just doesn't sound right.
Please, don't think that I might say you are doing 'it' the wrong way. Heaven forbid! Not an option. I'm not able to make blind tests or do extensive comparisons. All I know id=s that with my setup, TOSLINK is lacking. That is all. End of line. Over and out!
Hey PCGUY. Don't ever stop what you do here. It's like brain candy.
PCguy think were incompetent and make us look bad.
Joined: Jun 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 4,750 Location: Boca Raton, FL
Re: Glass Toslink Cables « Reply #73 on Feb 13, 2012, 9:55pm »
Your positions are not all entirely false. Dependent on your age, you'll recall that in the early days of digital audio, the audio elites began to take certain positions with regard to things digital. Red Book CD was regarded as insufficient to recreate the analog signal. Toslink was also considered unsuitable for transfering digital signal accurately because of high jitter rate and all that. In many cases, many so called audiophile manufacturer didn't bother to implement Toslink properly. The same was not true for coax. So, dependent on the age & manufacturer of your component, you could indeed hear a difference. But it would not be inherent in the I/C but the implementation. This is not true though with any modern pre/pro or receiver. I would dare you to hear a scintilla of difference between a toslink and a coax hookup with the UMC-1, AV7005, etc.
Your positions are not all entirely false. dependent on your age, you'll recall that in the early day of digital audio, the audio elites began to take certain position with regard to things digital. Red Book CD was regarded as insufficient to recreate the analog signal. Toslink was also considered unsuitable to transfer digital signal accurately because of high jitter rate and all that. In many cases, many so called audiophile manufacturer didn't bother to implement Toslink properly. The same was not true for coax. So, dependent on the age of your component, you could indeed hear a difference. But it would not be inherent in the I/C vbut the implementation. This is not true though with any modern pore/pro or receiver. I would dare you to hear a scintilla of difference between a toslink and a coax hookup with the UMC-1, AV7005, etc.
Yesterday, I connect my Denon 2311 which has, HDMI, Coax and Toslink. I connect my bluray and use it as a transport and connect all three connection and Denon allow me to choose what input what I like to use. The speaker were used were old Polk RT25i. At first, it was just me that listening and went over and over about the three connection. I can't hear the difference between HDMI and coax and find them to be rich and airy. When I switch to toslink (cheap and expensive cable) I could hear that there were some detail lost. The rich and airy sound were gone and it became apparent to me that connection matter. In the late afternoon, I call my friends (5 people plus me equal six) who were audio freak that know their music well. They brought their favorite CD's and I put a cover on the front display so they would not know what connection I have chosen. We listen to low, mid and high volume and that did not help either. We all conclude that toslink sound inferior, now tell me how can 6 people have a defective ears?
Your positions are not all entirely false. Dependent on your age, you'll recall that in the early days of digital audio, the audio elites began to take certain positions with regard to things digital. Red Book CD was regarded as insufficient to recreate the analog signal. Toslink was also considered unsuitable for transfering digital signal accurately because of high jitter rate and all that. In many cases, many so called audiophile manufacturer didn't bother to implement Toslink properly. The same was not true for coax. So, dependent on the age & manufacturer of your component, you could indeed hear a difference. But it would not be inherent in the I/C but the implementation. This is not true though with any modern pre/pro or receiver. I would dare you to hear a scintilla of difference between a toslink and a coax hookup with the UMC-1, AV7005, etc.
And I dare you to sit in the sweet spot and NOT hear a difference in my audio room. Can't you just realize that some DO hear a difference?
There was no comparison needed. When I walk into the listening room and it sound 'funny', I usually check which input is selected. 9 out of 10 times, it's set to what I call BR Fiber. It just doesn't sound right.
Please, don't think that I might say you are doing 'it' the wrong way. Heaven forbid! Not an option. I'm not able to make blind tests or do extensive comparisons. All I know id=s that with my setup, TOSLINK is lacking. That is all. End of line. Over and out!
Hey PCGUY. Don't ever stop what you do here. It's like brain candy.
PCguy think were incompetent and make us look bad.
Nah. I appreciate his prodding. Makes one think really clearly.
What would be nice is a DAC that could display recovered and uncorrected errors.
You wouldn't want to pay for that knowledge!
Edit: Ok, that was a quick response. To do that is not easy and it will cost a bunch. I would love it but what action could you take based on that information? In my world, if you can't take a corrective action on a metric that is collected, why collect it? .02 worth.
There are two easy corrective actions that one could take if the error rates are higher than they should be: Reseat the connectors or replace the cable.
Edit: Ok, that was a quick response. To do that is not easy and it will cost a bunch. I would love it but what action could you take based on that information? In my world, if you can't take a corrective action on a metric that is collected, why collect it? .02 worth.
There are two easy corrective actions that one could take if the error rates are higher than they should be: Reseat the connectors or replace the cable.
Excellent! And now it's off to dreamland where I can afford everything I want.
There are two easy corrective actions that one could take if the error rates are higher than they should be: Reseat the connectors or replace the cable.
Excellent! And now it's off to dreamland where I can afford everything I want.
You mean want now. Technology is great at reducing the cost over time. All that needs to happen is for one expensive device to have it, and every year, more devices will offer it at cheaper prices until it comes standard with every pre/pro and DAC (for those that already offer information to the user, such as bit rate).
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