Well, from what I can hear the right rear channel just cuts in and out like ever half a second or so. Could even be a little bit quicker then that and it seems consistent, not random, just off on off on off on, very rhytmically if you know what I mean.
I wonder if the DSOTM SACD is defective? Is that the only MCH SACD that you can try? If you are using HDMI I would try changing from bitstream to LPCM or vice versa. The SACD Output should be set to PCM for MCH SACD but you could try DSD just to see if that makes a difference.
Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Boston Acoustics A7200 amp (Sherwood A-965 clone), Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center and ADS 300C surrounds with a Rythmik F12SE.
Well, from what I can hear the right rear channel just cuts in and out like ever half a second or so. Could even be a little bit quicker then that and it seems consistent, not random, just off on off on off on, very rhytmically if you know what I mean.
I wonder if the DSOTM SACD is defective? Is that the only MCH SACD that you can try? If you are using HDMI I would try changing from bitstream to LPCM or vice versa. The SACD Output should be set to PCM for MCH SACD but you could try DSD just to see if that makes a difference.
Bill
He's got a UMC and it won't accept DSD... I was thinking that if he's using HDMI then try analog out from the Oppo or vice versa.
He's got a UMC and it won't accept DSD... I was thinking that if he's using HDMI then try analog out from the Oppo or vice versa.
He could try the 5/7.1 analog input as well. Has anyone tried to see if the UMC-1 will accept DSD over HDMI or analog? I ask as I can use the DSD setting with an analog output and my Parasound 2100 analog preamp has no issues accepting the signal. If the 93 is set to DSD and the UMC-1 will not accept it does the 93 then do the conversion to PCM automatically? I ask as I thought I read that the Oppo players will do that but maybe I misread that.
Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Boston Acoustics A7200 amp (Sherwood A-965 clone), Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center and ADS 300C surrounds with a Rythmik F12SE.
He's got a UMC and it won't accept DSD... I was thinking that if he's using HDMI then try analog out from the Oppo or vice versa.
He could try the 5/7.1 analog input as well. Has anyone tried to see if the UMC-1 will accept DSD over HDMI or analog? I ask as I can use the DSD setting with an analog output and my Parasound 2100 analog preamp has no issues accepting the signal. If the 93 is set to DSD and the UMC-1 will not accept it does the 93 then do the conversion to PCM automatically? I ask as I thought I read that the Oppo players will do that but maybe I misread that.
Bill
I can set my Oppo to output DSD and results in the UMC still getting a MC LPCM stream. So the Oppo must be detecting DSD is a no go in the handshake process and reverts to LPCM. So the end result is the same as choosing LPCM in the first place.
And by definition, the Oppo sends an analog signal out the analog outputs. Setting output to DSD does not change that - its still analog coming out the 7.1 analog outs.
I can set my Oppo to output DSD and results in the UMC still getting a MC LPCM stream. So the Oppo must be detecting DSD is a no go in the handshake process and reverts to LPCM. So the end result is the same as choosing LPCM in the first place.
True. But I thought it was worth a shot to see if it would make any difference with the audio issue he was having.
Quote:
And by definition, the Oppo sends an analog signal out the analog outputs. Setting output to DSD does not change that - its still analog coming out the 7.1 analog outs.
True again. But by using the DSD setting you are avoiding the additional DSD to PCM conversion. No matter what the output the signal has to be converted to analog at some point.
Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Boston Acoustics A7200 amp (Sherwood A-965 clone), Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center and ADS 300C surrounds with a Rythmik F12SE.
Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Boston Acoustics A7200 amp (Sherwood A-965 clone), Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center and ADS 300C surrounds with a Rythmik F12SE.
Re: UMC-1/SACD issue « Reply #49 on Mar 31, 2012, 11:47pm »
I see two potential issues with the Sony and the UMC-1.
1) 176.4 PCM.
2) Raw DSD.
I assume that these are separate issues.
How can I determine which one is the actual culprit in my case? If it is 1, and a previous version of the firmware resolved the issue, then I can legitimately ask Emo when they will have a resolution for the UMC-1. If it is 2, then it gets a bit murkier, as they have said they never have nor do they ever intend to support this on the UMC-1. My only recourse is to take an alternative approach such as analog.
In any case, I believe we (those who intend to acquire an XMC-1) need to pay careful attention to the product specs for the XMC-1, as Emo was a bit ambiguous in their response to me when they said;
"It is uncertain at this time whether the XMC will be able to decode DSD or not. You will definitely be hearing that answer in detail as it gets closer to release…."
True. But I thought it was worth a shot to see if it would make any difference with the audio issue he was having.
Quote:
And by definition, the Oppo sends an analog signal out the analog outputs. Setting output to DSD does not change that - its still analog coming out the 7.1 analog outs.
True again. But by using the DSD setting you are avoiding the additional DSD to PCM conversion. No matter what the output the signal has to be converted to analog at some point.
Bill
Not sure I get the second point. Since the Oppo outputs over analog simultaneously then a DSD to analog conversion must always be taking place, even if its sending DSD over HDMI at the same time, right? So I don't guess I'm grasping what you mean by "additional DSD to PCM conversion".
I see two potential issues with the Sony and the UMC-1.
1) 176.4 PCM.
2) Raw DSD.
I assume that these are separate issues.
How can I determine which one is the actual culprit in my case? If it is 1, and a previous version of the firmware resolved the issue, then I can legitimately ask Emo when they will have a resolution for the UMC-1. If it is 2, then it gets a bit murkier, as they have said they never have nor do they ever intend to support this on the UMC-1. My only recourse is to take an alternative approach such as analog.
In any case, I believe we (those who intend to acquire an XMC-1) need to pay careful attention to the product specs for the XMC-1, as Emo was a bit ambiguous in their response to me when they said;
"It is uncertain at this time whether the XMC will be able to decode DSD or not. You will definitely be hearing that answer in detail as it gets closer to release…."
Paul
Since the UMC was never designed to decode DSD, the issue for you is really #1. Others here have said that the next earlier firmware works at that frequency so you could go back to the previous firmware for a workaround. Or, yes, wait till the firmware is fixed. This was an unexpected bug that cropped up in 7.04.19.
Not sure I get the second point. Since the Oppo outputs over analog simultaneously then a DSD to analog conversion must always be taking place, even if its sending DSD over HDMI at the same time, right? So I don't guess I'm grasping what you mean by "additional DSD to PCM conversion".
What I meant if you use the DSD setting for the analog output it is a straight DSD to analog conversion. I use the DSD setting for 2CH SACD listening using my 2100. I use the PCM setting for MCH SACDs with my 886 to ultilize the bass management settings in my 83SE (5.1 analog output). My apologies for the confusion if I'm not using the correct technical terms .
Here is text from the Oppo manual regarding using the PCM or DSD settings.
5. SACD Output: To select audio output format for SACD. The options are:
• PCM – SACD Direct Stream Digital (DSD) data is converted into multi-channel, highresolution PCM data. The converted PCM data is then output through HDMI or the internal DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) for the analog audio output ports. If you use a receiver that supports HDMI v1.1 to listen to SACD, please select this option. You may also want to select this option if you prefer the sound quality of the DSD-to-PCM conversion.
• DSD – SACD DSD data is output over HDMI without any conversion. For the analog audio outputs, DSD data is converted into analog signal directly by the internal DAC. If you use a receiver that supports HDMI v1.2a with DSD over HDMI, or you prefer the sound quality of straight DSD to analog, please select this option.
Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Boston Acoustics A7200 amp (Sherwood A-965 clone), Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center and ADS 300C surrounds with a Rythmik F12SE.
Not sure I get the second point. Since the Oppo outputs over analog simultaneously then a DSD to analog conversion must always be taking place, even if its sending DSD over HDMI at the same time, right? So I don't guess I'm grasping what you mean by "additional DSD to PCM conversion".
What I meant if you use the DSD setting for the analog output it is a straight DSD to analog conversion. I use the DSD setting for 2CH SACD listening using my 2100. I use the PCM setting for MCH SACDs with my 886 to ultilize the bass management settings in my 83SE (5.1 analog output). My apologies for the confusion if I'm not using the correct technical terms .
Here is text from the Oppo manual regarding using the PCM or DSD settings.
5. SACD Output: To select audio output format for SACD. The options are:
• PCM – SACD Direct Stream Digital (DSD) data is converted into multi-channel, highresolution PCM data. The converted PCM data is then output through HDMI or the internal DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) for the analog audio output ports. If you use a receiver that supports HDMI v1.1 to listen to SACD, please select this option. You may also want to select this option if you prefer the sound quality of the DSD-to-PCM conversion.
• DSD – SACD DSD data is output over HDMI without any conversion. For the analog audio outputs, DSD data is converted into analog signal directly by the internal DAC. If you use a receiver that supports HDMI v1.2a with DSD over HDMI, or you prefer the sound quality of straight DSD to analog, please select this option.
Bill
I think I see what you mean, but the output at the analog outs seem to go thru the same process either way, no? Or is the Oppo converting DSD to PCM to analog in one scenario and DSD to analog in the other? I guess it could be read either way...
Thats the most recent. Unfortunately, your only options (with current equipment) is to revert to the previous firmware or wait for the next version assuming it will be remedied.
Sorry bout the hijack, but thought it was ok to post here as I have a UMC-1+ SaCD problem as well, or may'be just SACD or UMC. Have no idea why it is doing what its doing, Oppo 93 using hdmi into the UMC. Will obtain another SACD and see if that does it too, or the SACD I have is faulty. Sorry to have interjected.
Sorry bout the hijack, but thought it was ok to post here as I have a UMC-1+ SaCD problem as well, or may'be just SACD or UMC. Have no idea why it is doing what its doing, Oppo 93 using hdmi into the UMC. Will obtain another SACD and see if that does it too, or the SACD I have is faulty. Sorry to have interjected.
Cheers
If you have some RCA type interconnects, you might try analog out of the Oppo to the 7.1 analog ins of the UMC to see if the same thing happens.
I think I see what you mean, but the output at the analog outs seem to go thru the same process either way, no? Or is the Oppo converting DSD to PCM to analog in one scenario and DSD to analog in the other? I guess it could be read either way...
I'm far from an expert on this but I believe that it is one less conversion when using DSD with the analog outputs. I switch to DSD when listening to 2CH SACDs as that is supposed to be the most direct signal. Now if I did a DBT where the settings were switched I would most likely not notice the difference. But others say they can hear the difference quite easily.
They claim that when using the DSD setting SACDs take on a more analog SQ. So I decided why not and use DSD for 2CH SACDs. I tried to do a comparison but to change the setting from DSD to PCM and back requires going into the Oppo menu. Then when you do change the setting the track playing on the SACD goes back to the beginning. The only way I feel to do a comparison is with two of the same Oppo players playing the same SACD with one set to DSD and the other to PCM. To be quite honest I don't think it is worth the effort but I would interested in the results all the same.
Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Boston Acoustics A7200 amp (Sherwood A-965 clone), Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center and ADS 300C surrounds with a Rythmik F12SE.
Yes, just wanted to confirm I am listening to 176.4 umc displays through a 570 right now, previous FW, which I like best.
moe,
Did you take the R-972 out of your system or do you have two systems? What are your thoughts on the SQ of the UMC-1 compared to the R-972? Thanks!
Bill
Hello Bill, I still have the 972 in one of my other systems.The 972 and umc both have very good sound, and similar as far as musicality, still the edge to umc.The 972 however has way more bugs, as you know I have always said the umc has had very few issues in my setup.The 972 has a list of issues, almost all I have read here about the umc having the same, strange, early HDMI, weak processor, ideas ahead of tech?
If the umc had Trinnov it would compete with almost anything as far as sound.If Emotiva gets the XMC right with comparable correction it will be a major player.The 972 has given me a different perspective as to what some umc users may have experienced.I like it still good enough not to throw it out, but it's a love/hate kinda deal.
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