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Post by zductive on Feb 9, 2010 23:22:42 GMT -5
This update has absolutely destroyed any functionality of the EMO-Q program in my system.
Prior to the upgrade, the results of emo-q were reasonable. Now, they are unusable.
The room is dead quiet.
The microphone is on a mount placing it where my head is (a few inches in front of leather headrest).
Here is the settings that I am getting after the update
Before and after readings are after running emo-q several times.
after update before update
front left -10 250 Hz 4 dB
center -8 250 Hz -2 dB
Front right -10 250 Hz 1 dB
surr right -5 60 Hz -5 dB
bck right -4 20 Hz -9 dB
back left -2.5 250 Hz -7.5 dB
surr left -5.5 70 Hz -3.5 dB
subwoofer 10 80 Hz 3 dB
I did not write down the equalization constants but, I can't trust any of this setup information.
Anyone else having problem?
This is worse than Bose - Does it work in your system. If so, did you set up the unit in any way before making the calibration?
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Post by zductive on Feb 10, 2010 0:03:03 GMT -5
Sorrow that my post above is such a downer. Especially the mention of Bose....
I am just trying to have one spot where anyone with an emo-q problem can go for answers.
So far, I have seen several mentions that their settings were very bass heavy, crossover frequencies were higher on the mains than expected. In my case, the mains were set about 14 dB lower than they should have been.
What is the trick to getting the equalization to work?
Do you have to set the speaker settings or levels or distances to anything special before running the equalization program? How about mode - anything special there?
The room is reasonably well lined with bass traps and absorber.
The couch is a heavily padded leather
I have dual mfw-15 subs, mini strata mains, xvoce center, upa7 amp.
Should the mic be pointed straight up? That is how I tested this.
Help - I don't look forward to performing the equalization by hand.
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Post by ripcordaff on Feb 10, 2010 0:13:44 GMT -5
Man, this is really disappointing. I really wish emo had just licensed Audyssey....
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Post by gordon58 on Feb 10, 2010 0:15:06 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what did it sound like after you ran the Q function? Disregard the numbers for a minute if you will and listen. Perhaps the numbers are correct?
I'm interested in this function and perhaps the numbers are correct. What leads you to believe that you can't trust them? I'm not being a wise guy or smart a$$, just wondering?
G
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Post by ripcordaff on Feb 10, 2010 0:20:57 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what did it sound like after you ran the Q function? Disregard the numbers for a minute if you will and listen. Perhaps the numbers are correct? I'm interested in this function and perhaps the numbers are correct. What leads you to believe that you can't trust them? I'm not being a wise guy or smart a$$, just wondering? G Look at his back left and back right numbers. Assuming thats not a typo, one is crossed at 20hz and the other at 250hz. THAT can't be correct, no matter how it sounds. |
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Post by gordon58 on Feb 10, 2010 0:37:01 GMT -5
I believe it has to be a typo. I don't believe there are many surrounds that hit 20 Hz. Maybe 50?
G
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Post by zductive on Feb 10, 2010 0:48:24 GMT -5
Thats not a typo. That is the way that it set it.
I haven't tried moving the mic.
How did it sound? Really bad. Honestly, it sounded much better after I calibrated it with emo-q before the update. If they only changed the power level during calibration, moving the mic may fix the problem in the morning.
Before the update, emo-q set my surrounds to 40 Hz, my mains to 250 Hz and the sub to 40 Hz. That sent all bass from 40 to 250 Hz to my surrounds. That didn't sound very good either. Of course, all speakers except for the surrounds were reverse phase. Doesn't seem likely.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Feb 10, 2010 0:52:25 GMT -5
This update has absolutely destroyed any functionality of the EMO-Q program in my system. Prior to the upgrade, the results of emo-q were reasonable. Now, they are unusable. The room is dead quiet. The microphone is on a mount placing it where my head is (a few inches in front of leather headrest). Here is the settings that I am getting after the update Before and after readings are after running emo-q several times. after update before update front left -10 250 Hz 4 dB center -8 250 Hz -2 dB Front right -10 250 Hz 1 dB surr right -5 60 Hz -5 dB bck right -4 20 Hz -9 dB back left -2.5 250 Hz -7.5 dB surr left -5.5 70 Hz -3.5 dB subwoofer 10 80 Hz 3 dB I did not write down the equalization constants but, I can't trust any of this setup information. Anyone else having problem? This is worse than Bose - Does it work in your system. If so, did you set up the unit in any way before making the calibration? Get your hands on a real mic and RTA and EMO-Q will be just fine, plenty of xover and PEQ band adjustments, just need a good RTA meter or program for accurate results. |
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Post by gordon58 on Feb 10, 2010 1:01:51 GMT -5
Obtaining a "real mike" and a RTA is an unacceptable suggestion. Honestly, who has one or the other lying around the house? How many people are trained to utilize the potential of this device? The Q function should perform without going to the RTA extreme.
G
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Feb 10, 2010 1:13:06 GMT -5
Obtaining a "real mike" and a RTA is an unacceptable suggestion. Honestly, who has one or the other lying around the house? How many people are trained to utilize the potential of this device? The Q function should perform without going to the RTA extreme. G I do. ;D And if you can read a simple 30 band LED meter, then you can tune a system. Doesn't take more than 5 minutes of your time to get familiar with the device. Quite simply, your not going to get a high quality accurate mic on a home system processor. The EMO-Q function will not get you a very accurate calibration, nor will any other home EQ function like Audessy etc.......the quality just isnt there. Use a meter and the manual presets to get the best sound out of your system. |
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Post by rooster on Feb 10, 2010 1:24:17 GMT -5
just got through playing around with emo q. my subwoofer sounds dialed in. i have von schweikert vr 4.5's that are rated down to 20 hz, but the eq cuts them off at 250 hz. it set my center at 50 hz, and surrounds at 40 hz (they are rated at 35 hz and 22 hz respectively), and considering room dynamics, those are certainly reasonable. it's dialing down the lower end of the eq for the front left and right but crossing them over at 250 hz.... i guess i don't quite understand that. will play with it some more, but the sound is still very pleasing right now.
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Post by jgeiger on Feb 10, 2010 1:37:26 GMT -5
Actually, I'll have to post a pic later, but I believe there is a bug with the labeling (I hope) since it set levels for the back right speaker for me, and I don't have one.
I think it's messing up the back right and left surround, since back left and left surround were both flat.
I also am having some issues with my fronts both being rated at 250hz, when I know they're better than that. After running it 3 times, one of them would always be 250, the other varied between 80 and 250.
When I saved it and gave it a listen, it was way to bassy, including the center. I'll take another try tomorrow, but I can definitely screenshot the EQ for the non-existent speaker.
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Post by ripcordaff on Feb 10, 2010 1:39:26 GMT -5
Obtaining a "real mike" and a RTA is an unacceptable suggestion. Honestly, who has one or the other lying around the house? How many people are trained to utilize the potential of this device? The Q function should perform without going to the RTA extreme. G I do. ;D And if you can read a simple 30 band LED meter, then you can tune a system. Doesn't take more than 5 minutes of your time to get familiar with the device. Quite simply, your not going to get a high quality accurate mic on a home system processor. The EMO-Q function will not get you a very accurate calibration, nor will any other home EQ function like Audessy etc.......the quality just isnt there. Use a meter and the manual presets to get the best sound out of your system. Well some of us don't have access to that equipment nor is the value of device sustained when you need pro level equipment TO MAKE IT SOUND GOOD. That is unacceptable. Onkyo, for instance, ships a little mic that probably costs them a buck. And you know what? It WORKS with Audyssey. Audyssey nailed my distance and crosses every time, and I have had to dial it in several different times due to changes in living situations and speakers. Yes, I am sure a pro level mic and calibration equipment would help EmoQ do its job, but when you are selling this level of prepro, even if it is giant killer we all expect it to be, Emo can't expect professional installers\equipment to be available for initial set up. I love Emotiva and the gear they make as much as the next guy (my UMC 1 is on the way in fact), but come on. Are you really suggesting that it is the OP's fault for not having a RTA and therefore he is doomed to never to set up the UMC correctly? No. It is a software bug with EmoQ. We all bleed blue here, but seriously--Emo needs to fix this, not the OP..  |
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Post by rooster on Feb 10, 2010 1:43:26 GMT -5
you may be on to something. i have readings for the back right speaker, though there is no back right speaker connected, nor are they indicated in the speaker size and crossover menu.
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Post by acsubie on Feb 10, 2010 2:15:37 GMT -5
my crossover and distance settings were all whacked also. Set the distances manually with a tape measure so thats no big deal. And just went with 80hz straight down the board since thats what i used on my onkyo for years and it sounded pretty good
Even after the update my subwoofer still is running "hot" though
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Post by bobbart on Feb 10, 2010 5:44:20 GMT -5
My results were terrible also. Set the fronts to 250hz, surrounds to 40hz, even tho they are the same as the fronts,set 0hz for the subwoofer. It did set values for the back left and right surrounds which I don't even have. Set subwoofer to -50db. Mines going back today to see if they can fix it. The subwoofer eq doesn't work at all on mine.
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Post by majestyk on Feb 10, 2010 6:21:48 GMT -5
I've always used my sound meter for HT calibrating and I wouldn't use anything else. I remember owning a Chiro preamp (anyone remember them?), which seems like decades ago. That was the first time I ever came across a preamp that calibrated with a mic and it also came with one. Even back then I knew the sound meter was the way to go. Emo-Q (if working right) might come in handy for speaker distances but I wouldn't personally use it for anything else.
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Post by jmilton on Feb 10, 2010 7:13:00 GMT -5
Obtaining a "real mike" and a RTA is an unacceptable suggestion. Honestly, who has one or the other lying around the house? How many people are trained to utilize the potential of this device? The Q function should perform without going to the RTA extreme. G I do. ;D And if you can read a simple 30 band LED meter, then you can tune a system. Doesn't take more than 5 minutes of your time to get familiar with the device. Quite simply, your not going to get a high quality accurate mic on a home system processor. The EMO-Q function will not get you a very accurate calibration, nor will any other home EQ function like Audessy etc.......the quality just isnt there. Use a meter and the manual presets to get the best sound out of your system. I believe the calibration tables for the UMC are based on the supplied mic and switching to another mic is not advised.... |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 10, 2010 8:21:59 GMT -5
I'm having the same issues (see the SW update thread).
@ ntrain: maybe you should rent out your RTA. I agree that 600-700 additional expense to get it right is NOT an option.
All I can say is that there is definitely something going wrong. I've used a few versions of MCACC in my room and the distance/x-over/EQ has always been great. I get different settings every time I run Emo-Q.
It sounds great with no EQ at all, just not what I am used to for room correction.
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Post by crock on Feb 10, 2010 8:48:17 GMT -5
Hearing about the trouble folks are having with Emo-Q, it got me thinking about my own experiences measuring loudspeakers. In most rooms, you'll have a dip at the listening position in the 200-400 Hz range where the sound waves radiated directly from the speakers are canceled by the sound waves reflecting from the floor and ceiling. You can see this on Zaph's in room measurement of the ZRT - a system that measures ruler flat anechoic.  Now think about this in terms of the Emo-Q. If it is sweeping down and looking for the first -10 db point, it is almost certainly going to find it at the bottom of the room induced 200-400 Hz dip. This is why it's setting the crossover so absurdly high at 250 Hz. For those having trouble: try setting the mic a few inches off the floor or ceiling at your listening position and see what you get. I'm just curious to see if it changes your results. Room nodes can easily be +-10 db and a few feet will make a significant difference. For Emo: Why are you looking for the crossover point so high? If someone is using mains that only go down to 250 Hz, the system is going to sound like crap no matter what settings they choose. I would start looking for the -10 db point at ~150 Hz and work my way down. It might be even better to take a sample up high (1khz) and then work up from 20 Hz looking for the first point 10 db under the 1 kHz reference level. If you don't find it, just set the crossover to something reasonable like 80 Hz and call it done. The real world is an ugly place for acoustic software to run. As a programmer, I don't envy the guys writing the code. |
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