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Post by PaulBe on Apr 18, 2024 17:21:45 GMT -5
1. The new upgraded processors include a new main control engine... and a lot of new firmware. 2. "Still working on it" means that we're still not sure exactly what's causing it. And, until we are, we won't know if it's a firmware issue, which we can fix, or actually something in the hardware itself. (And, if it's something like "the DAC losing lock on a not-quite-perfect signal", we may be able to work around it in firmware.) 3. And, yes, there will be at least one more firmware update for the current generation of processors. Basically, when the new firmware for the new processors is finalized, we will "roll whatever new stuff and improvements we can" back into the firmware for the current processors. While we hope to sell a lot of the new processors, not everyone needs or wants HDMI 2.1, so some people won't want or need the upgrade. And, of course, some of the units that are traded in for the upgrade will be sold as "Certified Factory Renewed" as well. I'm going to include a bit of an "editorial comment" here... regarding my personal opinion on this sort of thing. To be quite honest I don't find the occasional tick or pop to be a big deal. I find streaming to have enough flaws and weaknesses that I consider "a perfect user experience" to be pretty much a lost cause with it. (That's a tactful way of saying that "if I've reconciled myself to watching something on streaming instead of buying the disc I've already accepted that the experience will be at least a little bit annoying".) I personally find the occasional tick or pop far less annoying than trying to figure out which streaming service actually has the movie I want to watch... Or keeping track of when that movie they've been advertising for months will finally be available on one of the networks I subscribe to. And I find that true for both video and audio streaming... But, yeah, I do find even the occasional "gotta reboot everything" to be a major nuisance... But, when it comes to music, if I notice anything wrong with the sound quality, that's a deal breaker... If it doesn't sound good then I simply won't spend the time to listen to it. (This is different than background music... which I do kind of want to "just play when I hit the button" but don't pay much attention after that.) On the other hand - what is the best sound quality helping, if there are constant issues like clicks or pops disturbing it. (i got used to them but they still happen daily)
Without these "glitches" - for me the RMC-1 would be "THE" AV processor in the market soundwise, at least out of the Box. (and I had some other brands here for testing, like Acurus ACT4, Marantz (previous, not the AV model), Onkyo (TX-RZ50) and Trinnov Altitude 16.
So I really hope the G4P platform is not suffering the same issues - because then, Emotiva did not learned lessons. And when you write "and we are still working on it", does it mean, that there is still a Firmware upgrade planned for the G3P in near future ?
I still think there is an issue with routing. This is not specifically a digital issue. Perhaps leakage between 2.0 and 5.1 Modes, with latency differences between the 2.0 and 5.1 Modes depending on Input settings? Whether hardware or FW, who knows. I'm experimenting with the settings. I eliminated the hop-skip-jump audio by Not using the Surround setting, and instead using Auto for 5.1 Mode on all HDMI sources.
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Post by foggy1956 on Apr 18, 2024 17:12:34 GMT -5
As a retired small business owner, I say that you can be an azz (if you really want to), but it WILL cost you - every time! Customers can, and occasionally will be profoundly inappropriate, but that’s the time that YOU should be at your most professional. The lesson to be learned is “when someone is deliberately trying to provoke you, it’s best not to give them the satisfaction of knowing that they’ve succeeded.” The thing that worries me the most is that Eric refuses to publish measurements. I'm not pro measurement but if he's bitching about other people's measurements he should publish something to substantiate his claims.
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Post by foggy1956 on Apr 18, 2024 17:08:55 GMT -5
1. The new upgraded processors include a new main control engine... and a lot of new firmware. 2. "Still working on it" means that we're still not sure exactly what's causing it. And, until we are, we won't know if it's a firmware issue, which we can fix, or actually something in the hardware itself. (And, if it's something like "the DAC losing lock on a not-quite-perfect signal", we may be able to work around it in firmware.) 3. And, yes, there will be at least one more firmware update for the current generation of processors. Basically, when the new firmware for the new processors is finalized, we will "roll whatever new stuff and improvements we can" back into the firmware for the current processors. While we hope to sell a lot of the new processors, not everyone needs or wants HDMI 2.1, so some people won't want or need the upgrade. And, of course, some of the units that are traded in for the upgrade will be sold as "Certified Factory Renewed" as well. I'm going to include a bit of an "editorial comment" here... regarding my personal opinion on this sort of thing. To be quite honest I don't find the occasional tick or pop to be a big deal. I find streaming to have enough flaws and weaknesses that I consider "a perfect user experience" to be pretty much a lost cause with it. (That's a tactful way of saying that "if I've reconciled myself to watching something on streaming instead of buying the disc I've already accepted that the experience will be at least a little bit annoying".) I personally find the occasional tick or pop far less annoying than trying to figure out which streaming service actually has the movie I want to watch... Or keeping track of when that movie they've been advertising for months will finally be available on one of the networks I subscribe to. And I find that true for both video and audio streaming... But, yeah, I do find even the occasional "gotta reboot everything" to be a major nuisance... But, when it comes to music, if I notice anything wrong with the sound quality, that's a deal breaker... If it doesn't sound good then I simply won't spend the time to listen to it. (This is different than background music... which I do kind of want to "just play when I hit the button" but don't pay much attention after that.) On the other hand - what is the best sound quality helping, if there are constant issues like clicks or pops disturbing it. (i got used to them but they still happen daily)
Without these "glitches" - for me the RMC-1 would be "THE" AV processor in the market soundwise, at least out of the Box. (and I had some other brands here for testing, like Acurus ACT4, Marantz (previous, not the AV model), Onkyo (TX-RZ50) and Trinnov Altitude 16.
So I really hope the G4P platform is not suffering the same issues - because then, Emotiva did not learned lessons. And when you write "and we are still working on it", does it mean, that there is still a Firmware upgrade planned for the G3P in near future ?
Thank you Kieth
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 18, 2024 16:50:48 GMT -5
I agree... and technically it should not be that way. Unfortunately, in the real world, there are ALWAYS going to be priorities. And, in this case, it's "how much money do we spend on performance, and how much do we spend on sound quality, and how much do we charge for our products". From my experience, with some of our competitors, they have a while tribe of engineers working on their user interface... and one old guy who works on the sound quality... in his spare time. And, since this seems to work for both them and most of their customers, I can't really say that they're wrong. And there are some that seem to have excellent sound quality, and a nice user interface, but they also have a rather impressive price tag to go along with those. Therefore, since one of our goals is to maintain a reasonable price, that our customers can actually afford, that does limit what we can spend on each of our priorities... And, since we all come from audio backgrounds, we generally choose to put sound quality at the top of that priority list... I agree that this is one nuisance issue that we would very much like to see the back of... and we are still working on it. HOWEVER, with all this talk about other brands, I would be interested to hear how many people who've switched have actually done a proper comparison of sound quality... (And, yes, I fully understand that, for some people, having a perfect seamless user interface is a higher priority than absolute sound quality... ) I know that, in the past, many people I have spoken to have agreed that, minor technical issues aside, our processors sound audibly better than processors and receivers from many of our competitors... And I would be curious to know if that has actually changed. Are having quality sound and a perfect seamless user interface mutually exclusive? I certainly hope not. Just my two cents
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 18, 2024 16:30:01 GMT -5
As a retired small business owner, I say that you can be an azz (if you really want to), but it WILL cost you - every time! Customers can, and occasionally will be profoundly inappropriate, but that’s the time that YOU should be at your most professional. The lesson to be learned is “when someone is deliberately trying to provoke you, it’s best not to give them the satisfaction of knowing that they’ve succeeded.”
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Apr 18, 2024 16:28:31 GMT -5
1. The new upgraded processors include a new main control engine... and a lot of new firmware. 2. "Still working on it" means that we're still not sure exactly what's causing it. And, until we are, we won't know if it's a firmware issue, which we can fix, or actually something in the hardware itself. (And, if it's something like "the DAC losing lock on a not-quite-perfect signal", we may be able to work around it in firmware.) 3. And, yes, there will be at least one more firmware update for the current generation of processors. Basically, when the new firmware for the new processors is finalized, we will "roll whatever new stuff and improvements we can" back into the firmware for the current processors. While we hope to sell a lot of the new processors, not everyone needs or wants HDMI 2.1, so some people won't want or need the upgrade. And, of course, some of the units that are traded in for the upgrade will be sold as "Certified Factory Renewed" as well. I'm going to include a bit of an "editorial comment" here... regarding my personal opinion on this sort of thing. To be quite honest I don't find the occasional tick or pop to be a big deal. I find streaming to have enough flaws and weaknesses that I consider "a perfect user experience" to be pretty much a lost cause with it. (That's a tactful way of saying that "if I've reconciled myself to watching something on streaming instead of buying the disc I've already accepted that the experience will be at least a little bit annoying".) I personally find the occasional tick or pop far less annoying than trying to figure out which streaming service actually has the movie I want to watch... Or keeping track of when that movie they've been advertising for months will finally be available on one of the networks I subscribe to. And I find that true for both video and audio streaming... But, yeah, I do find even the occasional "gotta reboot everything" to be a major nuisance... But, when it comes to music, if I notice anything wrong with the sound quality, that's a deal breaker... If it doesn't sound good then I simply won't spend the time to listen to it. (This is different than background music... which I do kind of want to "just play when I hit the button" but don't pay much attention after that.) I agree that this is one nuisance issue that we would very much like to see the back of... and we are still working on it. HOWEVER, with all this talk about other brands, I would be interested to hear how many people who've switched have actually done a proper comparison of sound quality... (And, yes, I fully understand that, for some people, having a perfect seamless user interface is a higher priority than absolute sound quality... ) I know that, in the past, many people I have spoken to have agreed that, minor technical issues aside, our processors sound audibly better than processors and receivers from many of our competitors... And I would be curious to know if that has actually changed. On the other hand - what is the best sound quality helping, if there are constant issues like clicks or pops disturbing it. (i got used to them but they still happen daily)
Without these "glitches" - for me the RMC-1 would be "THE" AV processor in the market soundwise, at least out of the Box. (and I had some other brands here for testing, like Acurus ACT4, Marantz (previous, not the AV model), Onkyo (TX-RZ50) and Trinnov Altitude 16.
So I really hope the G4P platform is not suffering the same issues - because then, Emotiva did not learned lessons. And when you write "and we are still working on it", does it mean, that there is still a Firmware upgrade planned for the G3P in near future ?
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Post by SteveH on Apr 18, 2024 16:23:46 GMT -5
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Post by gus4emo on Apr 18, 2024 16:14:14 GMT -5
Who is married to Dairy Queen?
Burger King
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Post by gus4emo on Apr 18, 2024 15:23:42 GMT -5
Papa John's son was born, he named him...
Little Cesar's
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 18, 2024 14:55:34 GMT -5
...I'm now at goal after dropping 46# and significantly increasing my exercise routine (I just did 5.75 miles on the treadmill today!). My numbers are also improved. Gout is nothing to mess with...I've had to manage my uric acid for ~20 years...Mark You ROCK, dude! 46 pounds is awesome. Live long and prosper.
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Post by aswiss on Apr 18, 2024 14:29:47 GMT -5
I agree that this is one nuisance issue that we would very much like to see the back of... and we are still working on it. HOWEVER, with all this talk about other brands, I would be interested to hear how many people who've switched have actually done a proper comparison of sound quality... (And, yes, I fully understand that, for some people, having a perfect seamless user interface is a higher priority than absolute sound quality... ) I know that, in the past, many people I have spoken to have agreed that, minor technical issues aside, our processors sound audibly better than processors and receivers from many of our competitors... And I would be curious to know if that has actually changed. To those getting faux-excited about the next generation of Emotiva processors (Gen 4), read this and understand that the next gen is unlikely going to work as intended, even 5 years after release and some occasional firmware updates, which is where we are now with Gen 3 On the other hand - what is the best sound quality helping, if there are constant issues like clicks or pops disturbing it. (i got used to them but they still happen daily)
Without these "glitches" - for me the RMC-1 would be "THE" AV processor in the market soundwise, at least out of the Box. (and I had some other brands here for testing, like Acurus ACT4, Marantz (previous, not the AV model), Onkyo (TX-RZ50) and Trinnov Altitude 16.
So I really hope the G4P platform is not suffering the same issues - because then, Emotiva did not learned lessons.
And when you write "and we are still working on it", does it mean, that there is still a Firmware upgrade planned for the G3P in near future ?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 18, 2024 14:11:59 GMT -5
A “Green Room aside” here - I saw the doctor this week for my best routine six-month checkup ever: I’ve lost more than 20 pounds & dropped two waist sizes. My total cholesterol is down with good cholesterol up and bad cholesterol way down Triglycerides are way down A1C is now below seven All other metrics are within range Doctor told me to discontinue two of my medications and to keep up whatever I’m doing My goals are to drop an additional 20 pounds, to get my blood uric acid down to 5.0 mg/dL, and to maintain my blood sugar at 100 or less via diet. There’s no motivator like pain to promote change; I’ve just had all I want of gout attacks! Boomzilla Congratulations! I'm now at goal after dropping 46# and significantly increasing my exercise routine (I just did 5.75 miles on the treadmill today!). My numbers are also improved. Gout is nothing to mess with...I've had to manage my uric acid for ~20 years. A big change was noticed today...I was getting into a dresser drawer and noticed my wedding ring that hasn't fit in years. I slipped it on, and it fits again! I was going to have it resized, but I always said I should resize myself - not the ring. Job accomplished. Mark
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 18, 2024 13:59:40 GMT -5
What is the surefire way with which to invoke the metallic sound? Is it just using the analog inputs and Reference Stereo? I've encountered what I think may be this issue, but it was a long time ago and just a one time experience. So I don't know how to duplicate it. I have never encountered this issue with analog or Reference Stereo. Where I have encountered this is with a streaming service such as Disney+ or Hulu while going through the Apple TV 4K. 5.1 is a factor. And, my wife always hears it before I do, which means that her hearing at the high end is better than mine. I have not been able to recreate this no matter what I do. It's always random. I heard "the metallic twanging"... in Reference Stereo mode... WITH AN ANALOG SOURCE. And, with decreased level and decreased bass. That is why I thought ‘this is very odd’. The fix was simply the mode back-and-forth switch. It happens in other modes too. It sounds like a slightly delayed version of the original signal. The metallic sound is intermittent for me.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 18, 2024 13:41:02 GMT -5
What is the surefire way with which to invoke the metallic sound? Is it just using the analog inputs and Reference Stereo? I've encountered what I think may be this issue, but it was a long time ago and just a one time experience. So I don't know how to duplicate it. I have never encountered this issue with analog or Reference Stereo. Where I have encountered this is with a streaming service such as Disney+ or Hulu while going through the Apple TV 4K. 5.1 is a factor. And, my wife always hears it before I do, which means that her hearing at the high end is better than mine. I have not been able to recreate this no matter what I do. It's always random.
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Post by thxultra on Apr 18, 2024 12:50:53 GMT -5
What is the surefire way with which to invoke the metallic sound? Is it just using the analog inputs and Reference Stereo? I've encountered what I think may be this issue, but it was a long time ago and just a one time experience. So I don't know how to duplicate it. I can get "the metallic sound" every day by using the Youttube TV app on my Apple TV. Seems to happen when switching sound modes. Notice it most of the time with 5.1 sources. I have to see how to recreate the distortion issue I had with my lumin T2 connected via Balanced Analogue in Reference stereo. Sound from all channels in a stereo mode is not as frequent but I have had this happen as well...
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Post by 5channels on Apr 18, 2024 12:23:49 GMT -5
I agree that this is one nuisance issue that we would very much like to see the back of... and we are still working on it. HOWEVER, with all this talk about other brands, I would be interested to hear how many people who've switched have actually done a proper comparison of sound quality... (And, yes, I fully understand that, for some people, having a perfect seamless user interface is a higher priority than absolute sound quality... ) I know that, in the past, many people I have spoken to have agreed that, minor technical issues aside, our processors sound audibly better than processors and receivers from many of our competitors... And I would be curious to know if that has actually changed. To those getting faux-excited about the next generation of Emotiva processors (Gen 4), read this and understand that the next gen is unlikely going to work as intended, even 5 years after release and some occasional firmware updates, which is where we are now with Gen 3 Are having quality sound and a perfect seamless user interface mutually exclusive? I certainly hope not. Just my two cents
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Post by ttocs on Apr 18, 2024 12:22:19 GMT -5
What is the surefire way with which to invoke the metallic sound? Is it just using the analog inputs and Reference Stereo?
I've encountered what I think may be this issue, but it was a long time ago and just a one time experience. So I don't know how to duplicate it.
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Post by leonski on Apr 18, 2024 12:14:53 GMT -5
The X1S and presumably the X1 have a function where you can put numbers on the main 'screen', I put screen in quotes, since it it tiny. What this would SEEM to mean is that channel 244 would be fairly easy while 360 would require some scrolling to make happen... Ease also would depend on that 'scroll wheel'.....touchy or rough starts to make choices more difficult..... Three years ago, I bought the original U1. That remote had "hard" number buttons on the remote. Not sure why they'd remove them, but in today's world of streaming live TV and scrolling through a channel guide, I can understand. Ultimately, I ended up returning the U1. Not because it didn't work well enough, but because building "activities" was pretty much a non existent feature at that time. You had to build macros on your own for every activity that you wanted to create. Having been a long time Harmony owner, that was a non-starter for me. I'm glad to see that they have addressed that shortcoming and building an "activity" should now be pretty painless. As I recall, the operation of the "scroll ball" on the U1 was fairly smooth under your thumb. So if that's how you now need to select the numbers, I don't think that would be too much of a problem as long as you're quick enough to satisfy the needs of your TV or cable box before it "times out". Personally, I will likely give the X1S a try. Having 30 days to return it (when purchased through Amazon), I don't have much to lose except the time invested... /Specifically WHY I have not sent off for the U1. No 'macros'......The X1S with improved software is now worthy...... Please keep me posted on your experiment with the X1S. And yes, the button time out issue DID occur to me......
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 18, 2024 12:12:09 GMT -5
Even though it's a rarity for me, I agree that it is an issue that needs fixing. Hopefully resources can be focused on getting the problem fixed, if possible. Perhaps this is a function of the processing power of the G3P that appear to be a bit underpowered based on how slow things are overall. Emotiva should know by now given the eminent release of G4P if they encountered the metallic sound issue during testing. Given the intermittent nature it may be more difficult to pinpoint but if they haven’t been able to duplicate it at all, they can state that which would mean something.
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Post by leonski on Apr 18, 2024 12:11:47 GMT -5
KEITH? EMO should publish a 'roadmap' extending.....with diminishing certainty......as far as 18 months into the future......
I followed that for my camera when Nikon went to the Mirrorless glass.....which is substantially different in lens mount
than the 'Fx' lenses. I've got some old 'tab' lenses which will work with my mirrorless on the FTZ mount.....
I kept my eyes on a particular lens and was ready when it became available....
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