Warm Up Period for Amps, and a few other Q's

It's helpful to distinguish between warm-up period and break-in period.

With tube-based electronics, a warm-up period of 15-20 minutes per listening session is recommended for many amps and preamps, particularly when using NOS tubes. The break-in period, on the other hand, is a one-time event when the amp is new that may last 200 hours or so.

As far as solid state electronics go, I'm with Hemster. No break-in period and no warm-up period is needed. Others may disagree.

I agree with the others. No warm up or break in period needed with solid state.

There are a couple different possibilities.

One, you may have the curse of good equipment. Now the recordings also have to be good. A poorly recorded album will just jump out of the speakers as poorly recorded.

Two, the synergy in the system has changed. More power & more accurate amplification may be changing the balance that you are used to. I don't know if the powered subs are adjustable or not, but they might not be balanced with the power coming from the xpa, causing a mid/treble heavy presentation. Or if things are just being played louder and the dynamics that were being missed before are now much more noticeable.

Good luck tuning everything.

Placement in the room might need slight adjustments too.

This remind me on the thread I started "burn in" I don't believe or even measurement will show you little to no change that your ear will not be able to detect, if any. The sonic signature of your amp will be same till the time your amp quite working. ;D

Thanks to everyone for you input! I appreciate it.

Well, that seems to be the same opinion of others here. Break in was my big question not having a monster huge amp like this before. So I guess I'm good to go there.

As far as warm up goes, I still think my Denon (or at least the entire system together maybe) sounds better after being played for at least 15 minutes. Subjective I'm sure, but I think it sounds smoother.

I know I put my speakers through over 100 hours of break in before placing them where they are now.

Yeah, I need more time to test this out. I have some old stand by's I usually go with to hear how things are. I also made a speaker test disc years ago when hunting down speakers that has a huge variety on it. It's good tool. More testing required for sure. When I bought these speakers there was a huge difference with this. Some recording artists and their engineers should be ashamed of the crap they put out.

I definitely hear more instrument and vocal separation than before, which I think may be contributing to it.

Yeah, you might be right. I do have a volume control so I might need to try turning that up a tad. It's not totally out of balance though, because for stereo listening I run my speakers 2 channel analog direct, as large speakers only, and let the cross overs in the speakers handle the mix. Only for TV and movies do I run the subwooofers separately. But the added dynamics of the treble and mid may be "overplaying" my old bass setting. It may have to go up slightly.

I think this is part of it too. With the added separation and the added dynamics, things are more in my face than before. As others have said, it may just be a learning curve. We'll see.

Thanks. I did some channel leveling last night, but I'm not done yet. I may also play with the sub control like you said. There is also a possibility that I just need some room treatment to take out a bit, but we'll see. One thing that helps Def Techs is to lean them back a bit. Other speaker makers like Wilson and Thiel do this on purpose to help with frequency timing stuff. With Def Tech it's even mentioned in their manual. I did it years ago so I currently have them about 3/4 of an inch higher in front than in back. It may be a matter of tilting them back more. Good excuse to get some new cool looking spikes!!!

And hey, while I'm at it, changing the toe position will change things too, so experimenting with that may be necessary. I'm sorry to say that moving them out farther from the wall (currently about 20 inches from the rear of the speaker) isn't an option from a room working standpoint. I MIGHT be able to get 4 more inches, maybe, but that's about it.

Thanks again for wishing me luck. I was all set to have a huge smile on my face the other night and it just didn't come. I went to bed depressed. I REALLY hope I can get it all sorted out to my liking. I bought these speakers to last me a good long while, so changing them out isn't an option fro me.

Cheers --- Bonzo ;D

"I bought these speakers to last me a good long while, so changing them out isn't an option fro me."

I understand where you're coming from, but your speakers are the most important piece of the puzzle. Changing out electronics will only get you small differences in most cases. Once you pay very close attention to speaker placement, settings, get a good source, and get some good room treatments, and you still don't like the sound, then I would be selling those speakers in a heart beat. I think most people are too quick to blame their electronics, when they should be blaming their speakers, their room, or the source material.

I'm not accusing you of blaming your electronics, but I sure wouldn't be so set on keeping your speakers just because you bought them to last you "a good long while".

GTPlus, I agree.

I'll have to re-read it, but until I read it again, I was under the understanding of what you are saying. The whole bi-wiring thing that many will argue says does nothing, is as you say, just extending the jumpers. There are all those theories about highs going one way and the mid/bass going the other and all the other thoughts behind it, bla bla bla. I just tried it a few years back and I did hear a difference. I did A/B tests and found it to add some depth and openess. Whether there is some fancy witchcraft at work (or my brain just wanting a difference), or just the plain physics of basically doubling the speaker wire thickness, I don't know.

Anyway, I think I read in the manual last night that it says something like "stacking your cables to bi-wire your speakers is in essence doubling the impedance." But PLEASE, don't quote me here. I'll re-read it again this weekend and figure it out, and get back.

Thanks for the help.

Just so you know too, for sure, I'm really not trying to blame the problem on the electronics. I certainly don't think the XPA-2 is a slouch. But different electronics DO interact differently with each other and speakers. They all work at least slightly different. And I do realize the speakers and source are a huge HUGE piece of the puzzle, as well as the room.

That being said, I certainly have not had the time to really fiddle with anything you mention yet, and I will be spending the next few weeks doing just that. I need to play with the levels first, then maybe leaning the speakers back as I stated above, then changing the toe and or placement. When all that is done, I really hope it's great. Really. But if it I don't like it, then I've got some hard decisions.......and changing speakers will mostly likely not be it. See more below.

I've always found my room to be okay, fairly neutral. It's not echoy for sure. Speech and the hand clap test sound good. For absorption, it's fully carpeted, has a large sectional, a recliner, a full leather window shade, and most of the back wall is covered with CD's in "case slots" (which keeps them separated a bit and the entire thing acts as an absorber). For reflection there are glass covered pictures spread fairly evenly about, and some other objects. My left back corner is bass heavy, and some day I plan to work on that.

But back to the speakers. If I wind up still not liking the results, then I'd say it's my ears being over sensitive to higher frequencies at higher dynamic levels, or it's the aluminum tweeters just not reacting well to having so much power behind them (although the Def Tech manual says up to 600 watts is acceptable). Aluminum tweeters do have bad reps for harshness within certain frequencies, so with a good amp driving them it may be more prominent.

That being said, sad as it may be, it will be the XPA-2 going back, not me getting new speakers.

#1. I can't afford it. Just not in the budget right now, nor for a long while.

#2. Don't have time in my life for that right now. See more below.

#3. When I say I got these speakers for a good long time, I meant it. I'm not rich, and I have a life with other things in it. Music is important, but not critically vital. But I waited and saved for over 10 years to justify them. When I could finally afford to do it within my life, I took my time. I traveled to every store within 100 miles I could find to check out everything they had within my budget, that would play with my receiver. I stuck to my guns on the budget ($5000), and about not changing my receiver at the time. While 2 channel was #1, I also wanted good surround sound and bass for movies which we watch all the time. So my budget was for 5.1, not just 2. I made a test disc set to take with me. As you know, different music plays differently on different speakers. Some were great for rock but sucked for classical, and so on and so on. I tried all kinds of speakers, from low price to high price above my budget. I went back and forth and back again; around and around. It took me a long time to narrow it down, almost 6 months, and I was very happy with the result in the end. I still am.

#4. My wife would KILL ME.

So that's that. I need to do adjusting and playing around and see where I end up. Hopefully my speakers and ears don't let me down.

Sorry about the novel, and thanks for your advice. Hopefully you can understand my perspective a bit better now too.

Cheers ---- Bonzo ;D