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Post by shawmcbigdis on Dec 9, 2010 13:43:17 GMT -5
So I received my XDA Monday, and set ip all up Monday night. I did some listening, but not much as the wife and kids were around, and I couldn't really get critical with it. Last night I had about 3 hours of "alone time" with my system. And here's what I found. Short answer, I'm probably sending the XDA back.  Not that there is anything wrong with it, I just can't hear a tangible difference between it and my Onkyo. Honestly I'm very surprised with my own assessment. Perhaps there's a problem in my system, or with my ears, but to me the XDA doesn't add enough to be worth the money. Which is not a knock on the XDA, I believe that there isn't a DAC on the planet that would add enough to make it worth $300, based on what I've heard about it versus other DAC's, and how it performed in my system. So here's the long answer to my listening procedure, and how I came to this conclusion. My current system, is as it is in my Sig, ERC and Oppo 980 sources to an Onkyo AVR (ERC using analog, Oppo goes digital HDMI). Onkyo goes RCA to a pair of UPA-1's. I hooked the ERC to the XDA via coax, and the Oppo via optical, then the XDA to the UPA's via XLR balanced. This allowed me to use the switch on the back of the UPA's to switch back and forth between the XDA and the Onkyo fairly quickly. I did have to get up, make the switch and then sit back down, but that's the quickest I could get it. I also made sure to always pause and restart the music from the same place and re-listen to the same song (or section of song) in order to be able to do a more direct comparison. I did not do an exact level match using an SPL (I have one, just being lazy) I just switched back and forth a few times until it seemed fairly close to my ears. Oh, so when going through the Onkyo I had it in "Stereo" mode not direct, so it was using the Audyssey calibration and the subwoofer (SVS PB12 PLus /2) First up was Pink Floyd Animals, track 1 Pigs on the wing. Pretty much no discernible difference between the 2. Not that there is a lot of bass in it, but I was impressed with how well the CDA transmitted bass to the 804's. The sub wasn't missed. Next I moved to something more complicated, Dave Mathews Band Busted Stuff. I ran through several tracks on this. Pretty much the same conclusion. There were some tracks were I would have liked a little more bass when playing through the XDA, but the definition of the bass was awesome, just not the quantity. This is also the album where I first realized I could sense a difference between the 2, even though I couldn't really say I could hear it. Meaning they sounded the same, I couldn't point to any 1 thing, but I knew they were different. Not just because I was switching them so obviously I knew they were different, just something intangible. The problem is, it wasn't something that was better from either way, just felt different. Then on to Sarah McLachlan Surfacing, mainly track 7 angel. This is one of my all time favorite reference tracks. She sounds amazing on B&W's and this song in particular. But again I couldn't really hear any difference. Again, I felt a difference, but not anything I could define, or even say which was better. I'd listen to the whole track, then switch, then tried listening to 10-20 second sections and switching. I just couldn't nail down any differences. But there was that nagging, I can sense something changed, so it must be better, even though I knew I couldn't say it was better. So this is when I decided to bust out the high resolution stereo DVD-A's. I have several DVD-A's that I also have the CD of, but last night I could only quickly find both of Beck's album Sea Change. Which is fine because it's an amazing album. I listened first to the DVD-A through the XDA, then the CD through the Onkyo. I started with track 5 Lost Cause. At first I was like, wow this sounds great! Then I played the CD, and was like, huh this sounds great also. I then realized I hadn't listened to the none 5.1 mix in ages, so I hadn't heard it in stereo in a very long time. So I went back and listened to both again. I could start to pick out some slight differences, like how certain instruments or frequencies were more forward or laid back, but nothing drastic. And at tat point it could be differences in the mix, not the components. After about 4 listens on each, then cruising around other tracks, I just couldn't put my finger on anything concrete about the XDA being better. And this album is 88/24bit stereo. I mean if I can't hear a difference in that, how am I going to hear a difference in normal CD's. So I'm going to send it back.  I wanted to love it, and be blown away with my first real external DAC, but I'm just not. Maybe I've blown my ears, and my system is already as good as I can hear, I don't know. I built this system up about a year and a half ago over a few months, and almost every piece is new, and every piece was an improvement. The XDA wasn't an improvement. It's not a detriment, but whats the point of spending $300 on nothing except the hassle of having to flip the switch on the back of the amps? I've got 30 days so if anyone see's something I did wrong or has any tips for me, let me know. I won't send it back right away, but honestly I can't foresee keeping it at this point. |
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Post by UT-Driven on Dec 9, 2010 13:51:42 GMT -5
It is a long post, not sure if I missed it but where did you hook the XDA-1's output to? Ideally you will need to either use the 7.1 channel inputs on the Onkyo or use the CD input with a Pure Direct mode. I don't know the Onkyo receivers enough to know their features.
If you just use a pair of inputs on the Onkyo, then the receiver will more than likely convert the analog to digital in the receiver then back to analog again for the preouts defeating any benefit of the XDA-1.
Doug
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Post by regulator on Dec 9, 2010 13:55:30 GMT -5
Interesting review. You aren't alone with your feelings about the XDA-1. Maybe it was all the hype, maybe it's because this is my first DAC, but I also did not hear a major difference at all when I did my comparisons. I did not expect a night and day difference, but the difference I could hear was very minimal, it left me thinking "thats it"? I do need to try again, maybe this weekend when I will have more time to really try it out with different sources. I am happy with the XDA, but I was left underwhelmed and let down to be honest. It's still cool to have and I am glad I didn't buy this at full price. I do think I would return it had I paid full price.
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Post by mauriceminor on Dec 9, 2010 13:59:55 GMT -5
I on the other hand, had a very positive result with the addition of the XDA-1.
The sound does very in improvement from CD to CD but everything so far has benefited with the XDA-1
More detail, a more natural bass, a wider sound stage.
On many recordings if you close your eyes the speakers seemingly disappear.
Classical, Straight ahead jazz, Movie Sound tracks, Opera have improved nicely
Current system : ERC-1 > Coax > DAC-1 > XLR > UPA-1's > A/D/S L1290
Former system : ERC-1 > RCA > SAE PA10 preamp > RCA > UPA-1's > A/D/S L1290
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 9, 2010 14:04:57 GMT -5
So I received my XDA Monday, and set ip all up Monday night. I did some listening, but not much as the wife and kids were around, and I couldn't really get critical with it. Last night I had about 3 hours of "alone time" with my system. And here's what I found. Short answer, I'm probably sending the XDA back. Not that there is anything wrong with it, I just can't hear a tangible difference between it and my Onkyo. Honestly I'm very surprised with my own assessment. Perhaps there's a problem in my system, or with my ears, but to me the XDA doesn't add enough to be worth the money. Which is not a knock on the XDA, I believe that there isn't a DAC on the planet that would add enough to make it worth $300, based on what I've heard about it versus other DAC's, and how it performed in my system. So here's the long answer to my listening procedure, and how I came to this conclusion. My current system, is as it is in my Sig, ERC and Oppo 980 sources to an Onkyo AVR (ERC using analog, Oppo goes digital HDMI). Onkyo goes RCA to a pair of UPA-1's. I hooked the ERC to the XDA via coax, and the Oppo via optical, then the XDA to the UPA's via XLR balanced. This allowed me to use the switch on the back of the UPA's to switch back and forth between the XDA and the Onkyo fairly quickly. I did have to get up, make the switch and then sit back down, but that's the quickest I could get it. I also made sure to always pause and restart the music from the same place and re-listen to the same song (or section of song) in order to be able to do a more direct comparison. I did not do an exact level match using an SPL (I have one, just being lazy) I just switched back and forth a few times until it seemed fairly close to my ears. Oh, so when going through the Onkyo I had it in "Stereo" mode not direct, so it was using the Audyssey calibration and the subwoofer (SVS PB12 PLus /2) First up was Pink Floyd Animals, track 1 Pigs on the wing. Pretty much no discernible difference between the 2. Not that there is a lot of bass in it, but I was impressed with how well the CDA transmitted bass to the 804's. The sub wasn't missed. Next I moved to something more complicated, Dave Mathews Band Busted Stuff. I ran through several tracks on this. Pretty much the same conclusion. There were some tracks were I would have liked a little more bass when playing through the XDA, but the definition of the bass was awesome, just not the quantity. This is also the album where I first realized I could sense a difference between the 2, even though I couldn't really say I could hear it. Meaning they sounded the same, I couldn't point to any 1 thing, but I knew they were different. Not just because I was switching them so obviously I knew they were different, just something intangible. The problem is, it wasn't something that was better from either way, just felt different. Then on to Sarah McLachlan Surfacing, mainly track 7 angel. This is one of my all time favorite reference tracks. She sounds amazing on B&W's and this song in particular. But again I couldn't really hear any difference. Again, I felt a difference, but not anything I could define, or even say which was better. I'd listen to the whole track, then switch, then tried listening to 10-20 second sections and switching. I just couldn't nail down any differences. But there was that nagging, I can sense something changed, so it must be better, even though I knew I couldn't say it was better. So this is when I decided to bust out the high resolution stereo DVD-A's. I have several DVD-A's that I also have the CD of, but last night I could only quickly find both of Beck's album Sea Change. Which is fine because it's an amazing album. I listened first to the DVD-A through the XDA, then the CD through the Onkyo. I started with track 5 Lost Cause. At first I was like, wow this sounds great! Then I played the CD, and was like, huh this sounds great also. I then realized I hadn't listened to the none 5.1 mix in ages, so I hadn't heard it in stereo in a very long time. So I went back and listened to both again. I could start to pick out some slight differences, like how certain instruments or frequencies were more forward or laid back, but nothing drastic. And at tat point it could be differences in the mix, not the components. After about 4 listens on each, then cruising around other tracks, I just couldn't put my finger on anything concrete about the XDA being better. And this album is 88/24bit stereo. I mean if I can't hear a difference in that, how am I going to hear a difference in normal CD's. So I'm going to send it back. I wanted to love it, and be blown away with my first real external DAC, but I'm just not. Maybe I've blown my ears, and my system is already as good as I can hear, I don't know. I built this system up about a year and a half ago over a few months, and almost every piece is new, and every piece was an improvement. The XDA wasn't an improvement. It's not a detriment, but whats the point of spending $300 on nothing except the hassle of having to flip the switch on the back of the amps? I've got 30 days so if anyone see's something I did wrong or has any tips for me, let me know. I won't send it back right away, but honestly I can't foresee keeping it at this point. Thanks for posting your results, but I am kind of confused by how you did the comparison. Are you saying that for part 1 that you had the ERC-1 connected via digital coax to the XDA-1, then the XDA-1 XLR output connected directly to the UPA-1 XLR input? Then for part 2, that's what confuses me. You had the ERC-1 analog outputs going to the Onkyo, with the Onkyo set on stereo and using Audyssey, then from the Onkyo it went via RCA cables to the UPA-1? If so, that doesn't sound like a valid comparison. How can you compare a signals in which one is affected by Audyssey and one isn't? Also, you are going to the balanced input in one case and using an unbalanced input in the other case. The way I did my comparison is to hook the analog outputs of the ERC-1 to a preamp, then to the amp. Then I hooked the digital coax output of the ERC-1 to the XDA-1, and the analog output of the XDA-1 to the preamp, and then to the amp. That way I could instantly switch between inputs on the preamp to compare the DAC in the ERC-1 versus the DAC in the XDA-1. Like you, I felt there was a subtle difference but nothing I could really put my finger on. So I guess we reached similar conclusions about there not being any appreciable difference, but if my understanding of the way you set it up is correct, I feel that is not a valid apples-to-apples comparison. Shouldn't you connect both the ERC-1 and the XDA-1 to your Onkyo, and then play them using direct mode so you bypass Audyssey? Then both sources would be going to your amps via an RCA cable, too. |
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Post by shawmcbigdis on Dec 9, 2010 14:18:20 GMT -5
It is a long post, not sure if I missed it but where did you hook the XDA-1's output to? Ideally you will need to either use the 7.1 channel inputs on the Onkyo or use the CD input with a Pure Direct mode. I don't know the Onkyo receivers enough to know their features. If you just use a pair of inputs on the Onkyo, then the receiver will more than likely convert the analog to digital in the receiver then back to analog again for the preouts defeating any benefit of the XDA-1. Doug UT_Driven, The XDA was not input into the Onky, but the XDA went directly to my UPA's. like this; ERC > Coax > XDA > XLR > UPA the other route was the ERC analog outputs to my Onkyo, then to the UPA's, so; ERC > RCA > Onkyo > RCA > UPA So while using the XDA the Onkyo was completely out of the equation all together. |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 9, 2010 14:19:34 GMT -5
Interesting review. You aren't alone with your feelings about the XDA-1. Maybe it was all the hype, maybe it's because this is my first DAC, but I also did not hear a major difference at all when I did my comparisons. I did not expect a night and day difference, but the difference I could hear was very minimal, it left me thinking "thats it"? I do need to try again, maybe this weekend when I will have more time to really try it out with different sources. I am happy with the XDA, but I was left underwhelmed and let down to be honest. It's still cool to have and I am glad I didn't buy this at full price. I do think I would return it had I paid full price. Well if you think about it, I really wouldn't expect the XDA-1 to make a huge difference in the sound quality, unless I was replacing some pretty shabby equipment. Because if it made a significant improvement for the better, then I would have to wonder about my old equipment and if it was deficient. Like, if you think your system sounds good to begin with, then just how much better could introducing a box of electronics make it sound? To me it would only be a slight increment, not something major. I was hoping I'd hear a major improvement in my system when I used the XDA-1, but then I really don't know what that would really be, because I liked the way it sounded before adding the XDA-1. I guess I would be expecting more of a "you are there" sensation but it is already very good in that respect. Or maybe a true 3D effect but then I am wondering how much you are limited by what is actually on the recording itself. Anyway unless it breaks for some reason I'm planning on keeping the XDA-1. I like the way it looks, it sounds at least as good as the setup did without it, and now I can use a high quality DAC with my Sonos box.  |
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Post by shawmcbigdis on Dec 9, 2010 14:27:21 GMT -5
Thanks for posting your results, but I am kind of confused by how you did the comparison. Are you saying that for part 1 that you had the ERC-1 connected via digital coax to the XDA-1, then the XDA-1 XLR output connected directly to the UPA-1 XLR input? Then for part 2, that's what confuses me. You had the ERC-1 analog outputs going to the Onkyo, with the Onkyo set on stereo and using Audyssey, then from the Onkyo it went via RCA cables to the UPA-1? If so, that doesn't sound like a valid comparison. How can you compare a signals in which one is affected by Audyssey and one isn't? Also, you are going to the balanced input in one case and using an unbalanced input in the other case. The way I did my comparison is to hook the analog outputs of the ERC-1 to a preamp, then to the amp. Then I hooked the digital coax output of the ERC-1 to the XDA-1, and the analog output of the XDA-1 to the preamp, and then to the amp. That way I could instantly switch between inputs on the preamp to compare the DAC in the ERC-1 versus the DAC in the XDA-1. Like you, I felt there was a subtle difference but nothing I could really put my finger on. So I guess we reached similar conclusions about there not being any appreciable difference, but if my understanding of the way you set it up is correct, I feel that is not a valid apples-to-apples comparison. Shouldn't you connect both the ERC-1 and the XDA-1 to your Onkyo, and then play them using direct mode so you bypass Audyssey? Then both sources would be going to your amps via an RCA cable, too. monkumonku, I don't agree with your assessment. You are correct in that it isn't a direct apples to apples comparison, but that's not what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to use my current system in it's best possible way, compared to the XDA set up in it's best possible way. Connecting the XDA to the Onkyo makes no sense at all since it uses the same exact DAC as the ERC, it's bonus is it's superior analog output section. So if I run them both through the Onkyo I am now relying on the weakest link in the chain, which is supposedly the Onkyo analog section. So the 2 should sound exactly the same, since there is nothing special about the analog section of the Onkyo, and you would essentially be using the Same AD converter in both scenario's. I think if I had a better pre-amp, this may be a valid test, but since the Onkyo should be the weakest link in the analog chain, then getting rid of it should give me the biggest benefit. Since I got next to no benefit from it, that's why I'm sending the XDA back. Make sense? |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 9, 2010 14:27:23 GMT -5
It is a long post, not sure if I missed it but where did you hook the XDA-1's output to? Ideally you will need to either use the 7.1 channel inputs on the Onkyo or use the CD input with a Pure Direct mode. I don't know the Onkyo receivers enough to know their features. If you just use a pair of inputs on the Onkyo, then the receiver will more than likely convert the analog to digital in the receiver then back to analog again for the preouts defeating any benefit of the XDA-1. Doug UT_Driven, The XDA was not input into the Onky, but the XDA went directly to my UPA's. like this; ERC > Coax > XDA > XLR > UPA the other route was the ERC analog outputs to my Onkyo, then to the UPA's, so; ERC > RCA > Onkyo > RCA > UPA So while using the XDA the Onkyo was completely out of the equation all together. That seems odd because in the non-XDA path you are using Audyssey, whereas in the XDA-1 path it is not being influenced by Audyssey. So you would think that you'd hear a difference simply because of Audyssey being used/not used. I still think the comparison needs to be done running the XDA-1 through the Onkyo and the ERC-1 through the Onkyo using different analog inputs and setting it to direct. |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 9, 2010 14:32:33 GMT -5
Thanks for posting your results, but I am kind of confused by how you did the comparison. Are you saying that for part 1 that you had the ERC-1 connected via digital coax to the XDA-1, then the XDA-1 XLR output connected directly to the UPA-1 XLR input? Then for part 2, that's what confuses me. You had the ERC-1 analog outputs going to the Onkyo, with the Onkyo set on stereo and using Audyssey, then from the Onkyo it went via RCA cables to the UPA-1? If so, that doesn't sound like a valid comparison. How can you compare a signals in which one is affected by Audyssey and one isn't? Also, you are going to the balanced input in one case and using an unbalanced input in the other case. The way I did my comparison is to hook the analog outputs of the ERC-1 to a preamp, then to the amp. Then I hooked the digital coax output of the ERC-1 to the XDA-1, and the analog output of the XDA-1 to the preamp, and then to the amp. That way I could instantly switch between inputs on the preamp to compare the DAC in the ERC-1 versus the DAC in the XDA-1. Like you, I felt there was a subtle difference but nothing I could really put my finger on. So I guess we reached similar conclusions about there not being any appreciable difference, but if my understanding of the way you set it up is correct, I feel that is not a valid apples-to-apples comparison. Shouldn't you connect both the ERC-1 and the XDA-1 to your Onkyo, and then play them using direct mode so you bypass Audyssey? Then both sources would be going to your amps via an RCA cable, too. monkumonku, I don't agree with your assessment. You are correct in that it isn't a direct apples to apples comparison, but that's not what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to use my current system in it's best possible way, compared to the XDA set up in it's best possible way. Connecting the XDA to the Onkyo makes no sense at all since it uses the same exact DAC as the ERC, it's bonus is it's superior analog output section. So if I run them both through the Onkyo I am now relying on the weakest link in the chain, which is supposedly the Onkyo analog section. So the 2 should sound exactly the same, since there is nothing special about the analog section of the Onkyo, and you would essentially be using the Same AD converter in both scenario's. I think if I had a better pre-amp, this may be a valid test, but since the Onkyo should be the weakest link in the analog chain, then getting rid of it should give me the biggest benefit. Since I got next to no benefit from it, that's why I'm sending the XDA back. Make sense? I understand your logic but as I just posted, since one signal was affected by Audyssey and one wasn't, shouldn't the two signals sound different just because of that? Also, it sounds like in the XDA mode it was playing in 2.0 and in the non-XDA mode you had a sub so it was 2.1. How can you compare sound if one mode had a sub and one didn't? That would make a big difference, wouldn't it? |
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Post by regulator on Dec 9, 2010 14:37:06 GMT -5
Interesting review. You aren't alone with your feelings about the XDA-1. Maybe it was all the hype, maybe it's because this is my first DAC, but I also did not hear a major difference at all when I did my comparisons. I did not expect a night and day difference, but the difference I could hear was very minimal, it left me thinking "thats it"? I do need to try again, maybe this weekend when I will have more time to really try it out with different sources. I am happy with the XDA, but I was left underwhelmed and let down to be honest. It's still cool to have and I am glad I didn't buy this at full price. I do think I would return it had I paid full price. Well if you think about it, I really wouldn't expect the XDA-1 to make a huge difference in the sound quality, unless I was replacing some pretty shabby equipment. Because if it made a significant improvement for the better, then I would have to wonder about my old equipment and if it was deficient. Like, if you think your system sounds good to begin with, then just how much better could introducing a box of electronics make it sound? To me it would only be a slight increment, not something major. I was hoping I'd hear a major improvement in my system when I used the XDA-1, but then I really don't know what that would really be, because I liked the way it sounded before adding the XDA-1. I guess I would be expecting more of a "you are there" sensation but it is already very good in that respect. Or maybe a true 3D effect but then I am wondering how much you are limited by what is actually on the recording itself. Anyway unless it breaks for some reason I'm planning on keeping the XDA-1. I like the way it looks, it sounds at least as good as the setup did without it, and now I can use a high quality DAC with my Sonos box. You are exactly right and we seem to have the same impressions/thoughts on the DAC. My set up consists of a modest low end Sony receiver and a low end pioneer CD player. I also have a iMAC connected to the XDA via optical cable. Now with my computer media, I do think it sounds great, but I can't really compare since I only have one output on the iMac. This is my first DAC so I guess I wasn't sure what to expect. I am not unhappy, but not really impressed either. I am like you, I will keep it still because it looks cool and I think it improves the sound haha. Hopefully this weekend I can really sit and try different connections. Eventually I will replacing the Sony receiver with a USP-1. I am currently looking for a 2channel amp, preferrably a UPA-2 to power the system. Once I get all that, I think it will be a nice 2 channel system. |
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Post by corgidog59 on Dec 9, 2010 14:38:12 GMT -5
I kinda agree with the comments on this topic. I cannot swear on a stack of "Stereophile magazines" that I've arrived at audio nirvana. My system sounded just fine before the addition of the XDA-1 (I was and are still using a Pioneer Elite DV-48 with a Pioneer Elite rec VSX-03) But, being a 2 channel enthusiast, I like the idea of using a separate DAC in my system. I was going for a CD player but I like the flexibility of having a DAC as I can add any transport at anytime and not worry about how it will sound with CDs. Eventually, I will marry the XDA-1 to a Oppo BP-93. The fact is, Emotiva has a proven track record (with some exceptions) of producing world class products, Amps specifically, at exceptionally low prices so it is my hope that the XDA-1 will also prove to be a critical success. The ERC-1 has been a big win as well. Often times, evaluating a piece of audio equipment is like wine tasting. Robert Parker will give one wine a score of a 95 another one a 94. What is the difference between a 94 and a 95? I would taste them and think they taste darn nice to me. Then, I would buy the one with the lower price. lol
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Post by shawmcbigdis on Dec 9, 2010 14:41:51 GMT -5
monkumonku,
I understand where you are coming from on this. To answer the sub question first. It didn't make as big a difference as I thought it would. Everyone always slags the B&W 804's for their weak bass response, but there was a barely noticeable difference in bass response between the 2 setups. In some ways the bass actually sounded better without the sub, it didn't go as low, or have as much kick, but it was tighter and seemed more accurate. In some songs it was clearly lacking though without the sub.
How about this. I will leave the connections the same, but I will switch the Onkyo to "Pure audio" so that puts it in 2.0 mode, no sub. I've never really figured out if that disables Audassey or not. But again I don't want to disable it, I want to compare the best the current system can be, to the best the XDA could be.
And I think everyone would agree that the best the XDA can be is connected directly to the amps, without anything in the way.
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 9, 2010 14:53:52 GMT -5
monkumonku, I understand where you are coming from on this. To answer the sub question first. It didn't make as big a difference as I thought it would. Everyone always slags the B&W 804's for their weak bass response, but there was a barely noticeable difference in bass response between the 2 setups. In some ways the bass actually sounded better without the sub, it didn't go as low, or have as much kick, but it was tighter and seemed more accurate. In some songs it was clearly lacking though without the sub. How about this. I will leave the connections the same, but I will switch the Onkyo to "Pure audio" so that puts it in 2.0 mode, no sub. I've never really figured out if that disables Audassey or not. But again I don't want to disable it, I want to compare the best the current system can be, to the best the XDA could be. And I think everyone would agree that the best the XDA can be is connected directly to the amps, without anything in the way. Well if your goal was to try the XDA-1 at it's "best" then I'd say you accomplished what you set out to do. If you weren't impressed with the results, I do understand your logic. I guess you'll make someone happy by making a B unit available when you return it.  (if you do decide to try some different hookups, please post your impressions!) |
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 9, 2010 16:06:34 GMT -5
I'm dying to provide my findings, but alas have to wait till Christmas day to play with my new toy!
I can give some perspective on what I have listened to and owned in the past however.
My first foray into DACs was with an Audio Alchemy v.1.1 that I used with a Sony ES cd player and a Yamaha receiver to Inifinty RS5b speakers. I had this for a few years and there was a definite improvement in bass (tighter), as well as a more coherent mid-range. The highs were about the same. A definite "quality of sound" improvement.
I then bought an Entech 205.2 DAC which was used with a Pioneer Elite VXS-01 receiver, Sony CDP-339ES cd player, Logitech Squeezebox Duet, going to Thiel CS1.6 speakers.
The sound was improved in the mid-range......more coherent........and more defined high ends.....bass about the same with the cd player. The Squeezebox Duet's sound was much improved across the board. The DAC made a big difference here.
I am using the same equipment now except that the cd player is now the ERC-1. I have a feeling that there will be an improvement in coherency with the XDA-1, but I don't expect a huge jump.......could be wrong.
I do expect the XDA-1 to further improve on the sound of the Duet........those are my expectations......we shall see.
Being an audiophile, whether I have an Epiphany or am just slightly happy with improved SQ, I know I will end up keeping the DAC. I've had one in the system too many years to be without.
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 9, 2010 16:09:18 GMT -5
[/quote] and now I can use a high quality DAC with my Sonos box. [/quote] If I get one it will only for my Sonos. I have little confidence that it would make much of a difference over my EMC-1
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 9, 2010 16:13:56 GMT -5
and now I can use a high quality DAC with my Sonos box. [/quote] If I get one it will only for my Sonos. I have little confidence that it would make much of a difference over my EMC-1[/quote] "EMC-1"  |
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Post by thorcorps on Dec 9, 2010 16:19:16 GMT -5
I think the key here is that a DAC will provide an incremental improvement to an already good system. People should temper their expectations and should not expect that changing out a DAC (from using an internal one (CD player or AVR) to a separate one will magically transform their sound. If the difference is small or not readily apparent in a system, like shawmcbigdis is hearing (or not hearing), then no reason to waste money.
When I first got my Cambridge DacMagic, I put it in an already good system and heard a difference right away. Smoother, more natural sound, especially in the vocals and was pleased. To me, it was somewhat like a comparison between 128k mp3 to lossless.
While I was hoping that my XDA-1 would sound similar to my Cambridge, I really wanted to try it as a "digital preamp", and for me, the $$ are no big deal to try it out, and even if it doesn't remain in my main 2-channel system, I can use it elsewhere.
But, a DAC is more of a tweak in terms of how critical it is in a 2-channel system. Speakers, Preamp, Amp, Room Treatments are all more important IMO.
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Post by rixtergonzo on Dec 9, 2010 16:31:53 GMT -5
I'm getting the XDA-1 for the sole purpose of getting away from CD swapping to using a computer. That alone is well worth $300. If it sounds the same as the internal DAC in the ERC-1 then mission accomplished.
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Post by ajani on Dec 9, 2010 16:36:13 GMT -5
It is a long post, not sure if I missed it but where did you hook the XDA-1's output to? Ideally you will need to either use the 7.1 channel inputs on the Onkyo or use the CD input with a Pure Direct mode. I don't know the Onkyo receivers enough to know their features. If you just use a pair of inputs on the Onkyo, then the receiver will more than likely convert the analog to digital in the receiver then back to analog again for the preouts defeating any benefit of the XDA-1. Doug UT_Driven, The XDA was not input into the Onky, but the XDA went directly to my UPA's. like this; ERC > Coax > XDA > XLR > UPA the other route was the ERC analog outputs to my Onkyo, then to the UPA's, so; ERC > RCA > Onkyo > RCA > UPA So while using the XDA the Onkyo was completely out of the equation all together. If you can't hear any difference in that scenario, then you should return the XDA-1... I would suggest waiting until closer to the end of the 30 day trial... I'm one of those persons who hasn't noticed a HUGE difference in the sound of digital sources... So while I prefer the sound of my Benchmark DAC1 to my XDA-1, I won't pretend that the difference is night and day to me... So I think the best way for you to test out the XDA-1 is to try it in your system for around 10 days and then go back to the Onkyo and see if you notice the difference... |
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Not that there is anything wrong with it, I just can't hear a tangible difference between it and my Onkyo. Honestly I'm very surprised with my own assessment. Perhaps there's a problem in my system, or with my ears, but to me the XDA doesn't add enough to be worth the money. Which is not a knock on the XDA, I believe that there isn't a DAC on the planet that would add enough to make it worth $300, based on what I've heard about it versus other DAC's, and how it performed in my system. 
I wanted to love it, and be blown away with my first real external DAC, but I'm just not. Maybe I've blown my ears, and my system is already as good as I can hear, I don't know. I built this system up about a year and a half ago over a few months, and almost every piece is new, and every piece was an improvement. The XDA wasn't an improvement. It's not a detriment, but whats the point of spending $300 on nothing except the hassle of having to flip the switch on the back of the amps?
(if you do decide to try some different hookups, please post your impressions!)
