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fyrn
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XDA-1 with windows pc
« Thread Started on Mar 7, 2012, 3:30pm »
Hi, question for all the people in the know. I have an XDA-1 the I hook up to my laptop via USB to listen to music (like pandora, slacker, etc).
I have connected the XDA to two different laptops and playing the same "source" one sounds better than the other one (same OS, different PC specs.)
My question is, when the XDA is connected to the computer does the computer still affect the sound or is the XDA in complete control?

I seem to recall reading that you can change "audio software" on the computer to improve the sound thru the XDA.

is this a software or a hardware issue?

Any info on what can be done, would help, thanks
« Last Edit: Mar 7, 2012, 3:39pm by fyrn »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
solidstate
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #1 on Mar 8, 2012, 1:54am »
USB is a very complicated bus on a electrical and engineering level. The standards white paper is 650 PLUS PAGES DUDE!

USB INSIDE OUT

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml

There is so much to explain one couldn't possible explain to a non technical person.

Do you know ohm's law or how electricity actually works?

If not then forget it dude... LOL

An answer to your query about USB though... YES the PC's port can even have an affect! Software can have a profound affect as well depending on the decoder and audio API used etc. If you're using windows you want to be using Vista or 7 and be using WASAPI within your playback software.

I don't get why they (industry in general) just don't put a bloody firewire interface on there... Owh right PC manufacturers refuse to pay the couple dollars to offer it on their hardware.

RETARDED

If you can you're best to use SP/DIF output on your PC if it has it. All Macs have TOS/link out and a lot of notebooks. It's hidden in the 1/8" TRS headphones jack. When you use a special SP/DIF adapter or cable it then plunges into the TRS jack a little farther and it then engages a microswitch that turns on the optical LED for TOS/link.

COOL EH!

Realize that when you use the USB with the XDA-1 it's then considered a sound card device to you're PC operating system. When you use the soundcard built into the PC and it's SP/DIF output it then just appears as the internal soundcard (doesn't appear at all). Generally it's much much better to use the TOS/link than the USB because the XDA-1 USB interface is... well dude... in all honestly not the greatest.

Here is a FANTASTIC SOLUTION to make the USB audio input on the XDA-1 TEN TIMES BETTER

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm

At $150 bucks though it's expensive. You could just use an Asus sound card on PCI or PCIe if you have a desktop. If you have a notebook and it doesn't have SP/DIF output then it's a lot more expensive to fix the lackluster USB. If the notebook has firewire I'd get an Echo Audiofire for it's SP/DIF.

To be totally honest Kingwa's USB to SP/DIF converter really isn't that expensive when you compare it to the prices of those devices out there. Most high-end scammers charge $500 bucks for such devices. Not saying their tech or engineering is a scam but the prices sure as hell are!
« Last Edit: Mar 8, 2012, 2:35am by solidstate »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #2 on Mar 8, 2012, 2:21am »
Anybody doing audio electronics engineering and using USB interfaces needs to read this!

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml

I personally had no idea how complex USB is before I read it.

PS I bet money one of you're PCs doesn't have it's chipset drivers install properly thus the usb isn't setup properly in the operating system interms of it's drivers/inf files and DMI bus etc.

Totally systemic when people try to build machines but are not technical that they miss the chipset drivers resulting in problems like you describe.

Intel chipset driver package.
http://tinyurl.com/6vejt3c

AMD chipset driver package.
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/raid_windows.aspx

Amd's drivers are very recent
(released today) and Intel's are from just before xmas so both are relatively NEW when it comes to chipset driver packages.

pops and other sound anomalies is a clear sign of screwed chipset drivers and thus DMA/IRQ/DMI and so on issues. Sure it works but not properly in the underpinnings of the OS and device communications on a hardware level. Almost impossible to explain unless you're IT...
« Last Edit: Mar 8, 2012, 2:30am by solidstate »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #3 on Mar 8, 2012, 4:22am »
Make sure you got WASAPI mode or ASIO mode turned on in your media player. J-river is a good one that supports WASAPI. Foobar does too if you install the plugin. It provides bit-perfect audio and presents windows from mucking around with it.
« Last Edit: Mar 8, 2012, 4:22am by garbulky »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Laptop/PS3/Toshiba HD-DVD Player HD-A2/AsusXonar Essence ST ASIO SPDIF Coax->XDA- (12db RCA attenuator)->UPA-2->Axiom M80 V2 with v3 parts
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XDA-1 (12 db RCA attenuator)->Xenos 3HA Headphone amp->Sennheiser HD600
Asus Xonar Essence ST ASIO->RCA outputs->Xenos 3HA headphone amp -> Sennheisser HD600
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #4 on Mar 8, 2012, 4:32am »
WASAPI, ASIO, and "kernel streaming" all mean your playback software is passing an unchanged bit stream to the XDA, rather than running it through the operating system's mixer, adding in system sounds and that of other applications, and applying any effects/equalization you might unknowingly have selected.

You'll want to go into your sound devices and enable an option that says something about allowing "exclusive control". It also can't hurt to disable all effects (Windows 7 actually has a check box for disabling effects, in addition to all the individual ones you can deselect yourself).
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #5 on Mar 8, 2012, 3:52pm »
Kmixer and Kernel streaming dates back to the OLD WINDOWS AUDIO API from windows XP etc bro!

LOL

You want WASAPI exclusive mode... TOTALLY DIFFERENT Bobby!

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

PS the new API is from Vista forward
« Last Edit: Mar 8, 2012, 3:55pm by solidstate »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #6 on Mar 8, 2012, 3:59pm »
Kernel Streaming is for WDM devices (XP back) for bitperfect audio and to avoid kmixer.

WASAPI Exclusive mode is for Vista forward bitperfect audio playback.

Setting software to Kernel Streaming while running it inside Vista/7 isn't very smart!

LOL
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #7 on Mar 8, 2012, 5:58pm »
I'm running vista. I downloaded foobar and the plug in for WASAPI. Is there a good tutorial on how to set it up for streaming and how to check if its using WASAPI.

When streaming music from pandora or such, how can you tell the media player being used, since nothing is "open"
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #8 on Mar 8, 2012, 9:27pm »
Hey there fyrn,

If you are playing through foobar with the output configured to WASAPI, then you're using WASAPI to send the sound. No worries. Just go to File -> preferences -> Playback -> Output e confirm that you have Wasapi (or ASIO in case you installed it instead) as prefix in the Device section. If you need any help drop me a line.

If you don't like Foobar, give a try at MusicBee or MediaMonkey. They're nicer looking for most people and have included Wasapi support, you just have to change it in Preferences.


As for streaming, I don't know how Pandora works as I don't have access to it here in the EU. Does it provide you with a streaming link that you can input in Foobar? Or do you hear it through your web browser on Pandora's webpage? In the latest case your browser will most certainly be using windows' audio definitions, i.e., Direct Sound, passing through the windows audio mixer. Could be worse, could be the old kmixer used since 3.1 till XP ;D

Cheers,
« Last Edit: Mar 8, 2012, 9:31pm by sharky »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #9 on Mar 9, 2012, 12:01am »
Hi Solidstate,

I refer to your paragraph:

"If you can you're best to use SP/DIF output on your PC if it has it. All Macs have TOS/link out and a lot of notebooks. It's hidden in the 1/8" TRS headphones jack. When you use a special SP/DIF adapter or cable it then plunges into the TRS jack a little farther and it then engages a microswitch that turns on the optical LED for TOS/link."

I have a HP laptop. Under control panel/sound I see SPDIF digital out via HP dock. Does that mean my laptop has SPDIF? The hp dock is on longer available, what option do I have in order to make use of the SPDIF?

Thanks.


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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #10 on Mar 9, 2012, 2:32am »
Maybe it's talking about an actual docking station for your laptop that has SPDIF output. If you don't have this docking station, I would imagine that you don't have this capability. I have no experience with this though...

You probably know this but there are USB 2 to SPDIF out adapters that you can purchase for (somewhat) cheap $100 and under. This gets around certain issues with USB outputs. Musiland sells some on amazon. There are also very cheap solutions that should get you there at 20 to 30 bucks a pop but it may limit the Khz sampling rate to 96 khz.
I personally don't think you will notice an AUDIBLE change in your audio either way going via USB direct or SPDIF out or USB to spdif out as long as your cable is in good working condition and is 6 feet and under to be super safe. But that's just me...and I haven't had a converter to try out and see for myself.
« Last Edit: Mar 9, 2012, 9:54am by garbulky »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Laptop/PS3/Toshiba HD-DVD Player HD-A2/AsusXonar Essence ST ASIO SPDIF Coax->XDA- (12db RCA attenuator)->UPA-2->Axiom M80 V2 with v3 parts
Headphone:
XDA-1 (12 db RCA attenuator)->Xenos 3HA Headphone amp->Sennheiser HD600
Asus Xonar Essence ST ASIO->RCA outputs->Xenos 3HA headphone amp -> Sennheisser HD600
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #11 on Mar 9, 2012, 12:18pm »
yeah, I have been in and out of buying the XDA-1 because so many forum members say it's not worth it if using the USB connection to computer. I do want to keep connection simple if I buy one ???
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #12 on Mar 9, 2012, 10:00pm »
Yeah, especially since you have a UMC-1 and an Oppo... the XDA-1 is great, but it may not be worth the price with your current equipment.
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Laptop/PS3/Toshiba HD-DVD Player HD-A2/AsusXonar Essence ST ASIO SPDIF Coax->XDA- (12db RCA attenuator)->UPA-2->Axiom M80 V2 with v3 parts
Headphone:
XDA-1 (12 db RCA attenuator)->Xenos 3HA Headphone amp->Sennheiser HD600
Asus Xonar Essence ST ASIO->RCA outputs->Xenos 3HA headphone amp -> Sennheisser HD600
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #13 on Apr 11, 2012, 11:00am »

Mar 9, 2012, 12:18pm, copperband wrote:
yeah, I have been in and out of buying the XDA-1 because so many forum members say it's not worth it if using the USB connection to computer. I do want to keep connection simple if I buy one ???


It's a smoken deal for what you get!

If you want a USB to SP/DIF interface checkout Kingwa's USB to SP/DIF interface.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2012, 11:03am by solidstate »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #14 on Apr 11, 2012, 6:22pm »
Good one solidstate! :)
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #15 on Apr 13, 2012, 11:43pm »
YEAH!

Kingwa also has some new TE8802 based USB devices!

The NFB-10.2 really should be something...
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #16 on Apr 13, 2012, 11:47pm »

Mar 9, 2012, 2:32am, garbulky wrote:
Maybe it's talking about an actual docking station for your laptop that has SPDIF output. If you don't have this docking station, I would imagine that you don't have this capability. I have no experience with this though...

You probably know this but there are USB 2 to SPDIF out adapters that you can purchase for (somewhat) cheap $100 and under. This gets around certain issues with USB outputs. Musiland sells some on amazon. There are also very cheap solutions that should get you there at 20 to 30 bucks a pop but it may limit the Khz sampling rate to 96 khz.
I personally don't think you will notice an AUDIBLE change in your audio either way going via USB direct or SPDIF out or USB to spdif out as long as your cable is in good working condition and is 6 feet and under to be super safe. But that's just me...and I haven't had a converter to try out and see for myself.


You will notice it if you have good enough gear IE amps and speakers. The Emo DAC doesn't have async USB. You'd be much better off using the SP/DIF xmiter from your PC. You're better off with a standalone USB to SP/DIF interface though. Kingwa's is one of the best around for the money.
« Last Edit: Apr 13, 2012, 11:53pm by solidstate »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #17 on Apr 14, 2012, 10:11am »

Mar 9, 2012, 12:01am, copperband wrote:
I have a HP laptop. Under control panel/sound I see SPDIF digital out via HP dock. Does that mean my laptop has SPDIF? The hp dock is on longer available, what option do I have in order to make use of the SPDIF?

Thanks.




It's possible that you do. I have a Sony laptop that has this capability built into the headphone jack. I needed to get an adapter; a 1/8" mini-plug, that adapted the headphone jack to the normal SP/DIF jack. This cost about $1 (+shipping) through Amazon. In short, the adapter is just a brass tube that takes the signal from the light pipe interface inside the headphone jack. I use this when I listen to music files from my PC to my UMC-1.
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #18 on Apr 14, 2012, 10:35am »
I did a search at amazon and not sure which one you meant, can you let me know which one? Thanks.
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Re: XDA-1 with windows pc
« Reply #19 on Apr 14, 2012, 11:25am »

Apr 14, 2012, 10:35am, copperband wrote:
I did a search at amazon and not sure which one you meant, can you let me know which one? Thanks.


This is the exact one that I use. Make sure that your laptop has this capability. Just sticking this in the headphone jack will not magically make your headphone jack digital. ;) The people at Best Buy had no idea that this even existed. One person told me it was a mistake by the manufacturer.

http://www.amazon.com/Toslink-Female-Min....44 20633&sr=1-1
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