ppl
Minor Hero
Posts: 11
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Post by ppl on Jun 1, 2012 17:52:37 GMT -5
New to Emotiva, bought an XDA-1 @ $199. A bargain price for hi-end DAC with a pre-amp function.
Had it now for a week, XDA-1 direct via balanced-out to my power amp to my Magneplanar speakers. XDA-1 fed from PC-laptop via USB direct and from a Marantz DVD via SPDIF.
Everything works fine but the sound never impressed me. It was OK but not the hi-end I would expect. My previous setup using Behringer DQ1024 as a DAC was actually more dynamic. The XDA-1's clarity was better but sounds flat.
I knew the Volume control is NOT lossless but there is debate whether if it affected the sound. For me, the answer is without a doubt. I usually had mine set to about 40.
Rewired the system un-blanced RCAs through an old pre-amp and ran the XDA-1 volume up to max. (80). What a dramatic change! All the clarity but with serious dynamic response. Even 192K MP3 sounds great over USB; but FLAC or 320k MP3 are really great. All this at 16/44.1K. Now to get to 24/96 or 24/192 via SPDIF.
A bit disappointing since this mode lost the value of the nice Remote Control and the key value of a Balanced output. I can see why Emotiva is clearing out the unit w/o returns. Fantastic as a DAC but not worth using as a Pre-Amp. Still worth the SQ @ $199, IMO.
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Post by Topend on Jun 1, 2012 18:12:29 GMT -5
Connected to the upcoming XSP-1 the XDA-1 will retain balanced connections and utilize the analog volume.
Otherwise the XDA-2 will achieve improved volume and improved USB resolution.
Dave.
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ppl
Minor Hero
Posts: 11
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Post by ppl on Jun 1, 2012 18:40:38 GMT -5
Thanks, Dave. Actually, I found the SQ difference between balanced and unbalanced to be imperceptible on my system. If I was running 35-50ft. maybe that would be different. Not investing in yet another pre-amp. I have a very heavily modded Dynaco PAS3x, Dynaco PAT-5, Halfer, Proton and Carver pre-amps to play with already. Since I now have to use an analog stage between the XDA-1 and my power amp., I might as well insert a tube stage since I like the sound. Distortions but sweet distortions!  I rather focus on getting 24/96 or better streams to the XDA-1 via SPDIF next. Given how long XPS-1 been in discussions (2010) I won't hold my expectations on XDA-2, not to mention the price it will be. Happy listening... |
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Post by garbulky on Jun 1, 2012 23:32:55 GMT -5
I must admit their volume control leaves me wanting. It feels extremely clear and it's obvious the analog stage is very good but it's lacking in the impercetibles at quiet levels. It just doesn't have the same kind of enjoyment. I too attribute it to the lossy volume control. Hopefully the XDA-2 will fix this. I found the XDA-1 had some serious dynamic capabilities past 30 and it just got better the more you turned it up.
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ppl
Minor Hero
Posts: 11
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Post by ppl on Jun 2, 2012 0:58:33 GMT -5
The final analog stage is pretty good but I suspect it is close to the AD1955 reference design. You can find the details and schematic on the Analog Designs web page.
The shame is that Emotiva could have added a volume control at that stage and made it a real pre-amp for not a lot more cost. The annoying thing is that none of the reviews I found discussed this quite audible weakness. Glad I did not pay full price.
The USB is rather outdated for today but I knew that going in. I am looking at various SPDIF alternatives. Ideally, I like to avoid using a PC laptop and stream direct from my DLNA server to XDA-1.
Apple Airport Express is interesting but I like to avoid iTunes. I heard AirFoil is an alternative but never tried it yet. I am open to suggestions from this group. Thanks in advance.
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Post by pedrocols on Jun 2, 2012 2:17:36 GMT -5
The final analog stage is pretty good but I suspect it is close to the AD1955 reference design. You can find the details and schematic on the Analog Designs web page. The shame is that Emotiva could have added a volume control at that stage and made it a real pre-amp for not a lot more cost. The annoying thing is that none of the reviews I found discussed this quite audible weakness. Glad I did not pay full price. The USB is rather outdated for today but I knew that going in. I am looking at various SPDIF alternatives. Ideally, I like to avoid using a PC laptop and stream direct from my DLNA server to XDA-1. Apple Airport Express is interesting but I like to avoid iTunes. I heard AirFoil is an alternative but never tried it yet. I am open to suggestions from this group. Thanks in advance. I have the AirFoil and it works pretty good with my Pioneer 1121k...The Airfoil is only $25... |
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ppl
Minor Hero
Posts: 11
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Post by ppl on Jun 2, 2012 17:35:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback on AirFoil. Are you on a Mac or Windows?
AirFoil for Windows is relatively new and I am trying to find whether it will work with any audio player on the PC. Ideally, I am hoping that it simply makes the AirPort Express look like a virtual sound card on the network.
Wish someone makes a TCP/IP based sound card with SPDIF output.
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Post by pedrocols on Jun 2, 2012 18:48:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback on AirFoil. Are you on a Mac or Windows? AirFoil for Windows is relatively new and I am trying to find whether it will work with any audio player on the PC. Ideally, I am hoping that it simply makes the AirPort Express look like a virtual sound card on the network. Wish someone makes a TCP/IP based sound card with SPDIF output. I currently have window vista. You can download the trial version to see if you like it. I am able to listen to the music I have on windows media palyer on my pioneer 1121 k receiver. The 1121 k is a network capable receiver but I like to be able to use the media player instead. |
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Post by roadrunner on Jun 2, 2012 19:18:44 GMT -5
The final analog stage is pretty good but I suspect it is close to the AD1955 reference design. You can find the details and schematic on the Analog Designs web page. The shame is that Emotiva could have added a volume control at that stage and made it a real pre-amp for not a lot more cost. The annoying thing is that none of the reviews I found discussed this quite audible weakness. Glad I did not pay full price. The USB is rather outdated for today but I knew that going in. I am looking at various SPDIF alternatives. Ideally, I like to avoid using a PC laptop and stream direct from my DLNA server to XDA-1. Apple Airport Express is interesting but I like to avoid iTunes. I heard AirFoil is an alternative but never tried it yet. I am open to suggestions from this group. Thanks in advance. Not that it will help you at this stage, but the XDA-1's analog stage is an advanced, discrete fully balanced design. The problem arose with the lossy volume control because Emotiva thought that they were using "step-ladder" resistor design with digital control. It turns out they did not become aware that it was not a lossless volume control for a very extended time period. Had it actually been what they thought it was, the XDA-1 would have had a world class output stage. The XDA-2 has fixed that problem. On the Apple Airport you need to be aware that it is limited to 16 bit/48 MHz instead of 24/96 or 24/192. It's a shame, as it would be a world killer if it handle Hi-Res. |
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ppl
Minor Hero
Posts: 11
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Post by ppl on Jun 2, 2012 23:35:11 GMT -5
Thank you for the info. on Airport Express, good to know the limitations.
I just cobbled up something today using a Seagate FreeAgent
Theater+ to stream direct to XDA-1 from my Windows Home Server (WHS). The Seagate is a discontinued product for Netflix but can also directly log into SAMBA or DLNA servers and stream via TOSlink. I am currently streaming FLAC and seems to sound as good as a PC via USB.
Now I need to test it with Hi-Def formats. Additional benefits is that it has Pandora. Newer players like WD Live even supports Spotify. Boxee is another alternative. They all need a TV screen but small HDMI-HDTVs are easily found and relatively cheap. Right now I am simply using a 7" LCD-DVD player with SD-video inputs. Poor resolution but works until I find something better.
Having all those SPDIF / TOSlinks on the XDA-1 is great.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 9,934
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Post by KeithL on Jun 5, 2012 14:22:56 GMT -5
Actually, the way I've heard the story is that the volume control was intended more as a "convenience feature" that sort of evolved into referring to the XDA-1 as a "preamp". There was never any question as to which sort it was, or its limitations. There are many DACs out there with volume controls, and most of them use either fully digital volume controls, or plain old analog ones with poor channel matching and no remote control. The XDA-1 is a great DAC; and, as with any DAC with a digital volume control, the volume control may introduce a bit of grain into the sound if set to very low volume levels. This was a known design limitation, and not some sort of oversight.
Since our customers clearly WANT a full-quality digitally controlled analog stepped volume control on their DAC (like the one we already use on our pre/pro), we will be delivering it on the new XDA-2.
...........
Not that it will help you at this stage, but the XDA-1's analog stage is an advanced, discrete fully balanced design. The problem arose with the lossy volume control because Emotiva thought that they were using "step-ladder" resistor design with digital control. It turns out they did not become aware that it was not a lossless volume control for a very extended time period. Had it actually been what they thought it was, the XDA-1 would have had a world class output stage.
.............
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prohobo
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Only pure grain alcohol and rain water!
Posts: 141
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Post by prohobo on Jun 5, 2012 16:55:38 GMT -5
I would prefer the XDA-1 or XDA-2 without the volume controller, just a DAC. Maybe they could make a XDA-2 and the XDA-2P (P = Pre-amp).
I have a great magnetic-passive pre-amp, so I don't need another volume control. Especially if it "can" create issues.
I currently run my XDA-1 volume at 80 to my pre-amp. I love the remote and it is frustrating that I don't even use it (except as a selector between the transport and the SB).
Maybe emotiva will make a XDA-2 (without the pre-amp) - that would be great.
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Post by garbulky on Jun 5, 2012 18:00:44 GMT -5
Actually, the way I've heard the story is that the volume control was intended more as a "convenience feature" that sort of evolved into referring to the XDA-1 as a "preamp". There was never any question as to which sort it was, or its limitations. There are many DACs out there with volume controls, and most of them use either fully digital volume controls, or plain old analog ones with poor channel matching and no remote control. The XDA-1 is a great DAC; and, as with any DAC with a digital volume control, the volume control may introduce a bit of grain into the sound if set to very low volume levels. This was a known design limitation, and not some sort of oversight. Since our customers clearly WANT a full-quality digitally controlled analog stepped volume control on their DAC (like the one we already use on our pre/pro), we will be delivering it on the new XDA-2. ........... Not that it will help you at this stage, but the XDA-1's analog stage is an advanced, discrete fully balanced design. The problem arose with the lossy volume control because Emotiva thought that they were using "step-ladder" resistor design with digital control. It turns out they did not become aware that it was not a lossless volume control for a very extended time period. Had it actually been what they thought it was, the XDA-1 would have had a world class output stage. ............. That's different from what Lonnie told the forum... He told us he "goofed" and just assumed the volume control was losseless when it turned out later it wasn't. He also confirmed that it was lossy and emotiva told people to use their DAC at volume 50 or higher to prevent detail loss. Using an emo amp with the volume at 50 doesn't really fix the "quiet" volume issue as at that volume it's pretty darn loud . Hearing that the volume control was an afterthought isn't too encouraging though it makes more sense to me than the "I had no idea" explanation. . I sure hope they spend more attention on the XDA-2's volume control. PLEASE LONNIE! That's the main reason I'm considering purchasing the xda-2, because of the lossy volume control in the XDA-1. If you can make that volume control as good as the XDA-1 without the loss of whatever it is that I'm hearing at low volume levels, AND a headphone amp that is really "baddass" with good output on a senn HD600, you will have a happy camper and a killer product on your hands. I personally think the XDA-2 should outsell the XMC-1 in terms of units moved. Anyhow, I don't think it's so much that we want an analog volume control as much as we want a volume control that is better at doing low volumes than the XDA-1 and passes the full audio signal rather than losing whatever detail. If an analog volume control does this, then that's fine by me |
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Post by PapaJac on Jul 8, 2012 21:45:26 GMT -5
Connected to the upcoming XSP-1 the XDA-1 will retain balanced connections and utilize the analog volume. Otherwise the XDA-2 will achieve improved volume and improved USB resolution. Dave. Hi topend, How about connect the XDA-1 to the XMC-1 input via pair reference quality balanced analog audio (XLR)? |
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Post by Dark Ranger on Jul 8, 2012 23:40:02 GMT -5
Connected to the upcoming XSP-1 the XDA-1 will retain balanced connections and utilize the analog volume. Otherwise the XDA-2 will achieve improved volume and improved USB resolution. Dave. Hi topend, How about connect the XDA-1 to the XMC-1 input via pair reference quality balanced analog audio (XLR)? Hi PapaJac, I'm not topend, but I can chime in here. You can connect the XDA-1 to the XMC-1 via the "reference quality" balanced analog inputs. In fact, this is what I will be doing as well. It means the XDA-1 can stay at 80.0 and we can use the lossless volume control on the XMC-1. Caveat: while both the XSP-1 and XMC-1 support balanced analog inputs, please note that the XSP-1 uses the "Differential Reference" design while the XMC-1 most likely will not. Hope that helps. |
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Post by PapaJac on Jul 9, 2012 5:12:07 GMT -5
Hi topend, How about connect the XDA-1 to the XMC-1 input via pair reference quality balanced analog audio (XLR)? Hi PapaJac, I'm not topend, but I can chime in here. You can connect the XDA-1 to the XMC-1 via the "reference quality" balanced analog inputs. In fact, this is what I will be doing as well. It means the XDA-1 can stay at 80.0 and we can use the lossless volume control on the XMC-1. Caveat: while both the XSP-1 and XMC-1 support balanced analog inputs, please note that the XSP-1 uses the "Differential Reference" design while the XMC-1 most likely will not. Hope that helps. Thanks for the answer. That's my plan too; since I don't have plan to buy the XSP-1 for now. |
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Post by Golden Ear on Jul 19, 2012 12:22:28 GMT -5
I had XDA-1 for a long time now along with USP-1 and UPA-2. I combine all three of them and I did not like the way it present its sound. The midrange has dry quality and sharp highs that can ring your ear. I did however connect XDA-1 directly to UPA-2 and the sound is better than having USP-1 in the mix. Having USP-1 in the mix, the micro detail and micro dynamics were not audible even at high volume. I'm not sure why those detail where not there when USP-1 in the mix. This of course the XDA-1 was set at 80. Some users said having XDA-1 use as preamp sound cold or lose of details or even sound bright. The sound is bright when USP-1 is in the mix but none when XDA-1 is direct to amp. I'm not sure if USP-1 is defective or what. Alot of people praise how USP-1 turn their music to new height but in my case it turn my music to new low.
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