Lonnie's UMC-1 Bass Management 101 (follow on)

since the other thread was locked, I think that this deserves some comment, perhaps from Lonnie since it tends to give some logical credence to his statements that the difference in delays is not audibly significant. It is on the same topic as the title of this thread, so I dont think I am violating any forum rules other than posting it twice, but that's only because no one can respond where it was originally posted.

Note: I am addressing if one can hear the comb filtering effect of mixing bass content with different delays into the sub ouput when the speakers are set up (in the UMC-1) with different distances from the listening "sweet spot" .... which has been an ongoing discussion in many threads.

This is my stab at why the bass delay mismatch is not an audible problem.....and I am prepared for the onslaught of derision and laughter if I am way off base.

What Marcus has shown is what happens if you mix THE SAME frequencies played at the same time with different delays....which could happen if your sub is a different distance from your sweet spot than your main (or other) speakers.

In the real world....the same bass frequencies are often played thru the front left and right, and occasionally center, etc speakers. In most cases the distance between the "sweet spot" and the fronts is the same or close enough that the difference in delays would be small....so there would be minimal comb effect between those speakers....life would be good.

The LFE track plays a combination of sound which in some cases includes the program material and in other cases just includes low frequency background effects. It is not constant frequency in most cases. The only time there would be a comb effect is when the LFE and the fronts were playing the frequencies in the dips that marcus shows. That would be random and would be almost impossible to hear given the variation in frequencies that are really coming from the fronts and the LFE.

Further, if you are using stereo mode and crossing over to your sub, there is no LFE track and you are mixing two signals with the same delay (assuming that the fronts are the same distance from the sweet spot which is reasonably standard)...although I would note that if the sub is not the same distance away from the sweet spot as the fronts, then while you won't have the comb effect, the delay for the sub would be wrong because it is getting the delay from the front channel speaker setup distance, not from the sub channel setup distance.

If you played what Marcus measured thru your speakers, you would likely hear the effect very clearly. But I believe that since the material coming from the fronts (either or both) and the LFE material are most often at different frequencies, you would not hear the comb effect audibly.

Am I all wet or would this possibly explain the difference in what Markus measured (which I believe is accurate) and what Lonnie has stated which is that the comb filtering is not audible??

This is not a question of right or wrong design....I am only suggesting that Emotiva's statement that the implementation of bass routing in the UMC-1 does not result in audible comb filtering may be correct.

It certainly is interesting that Lonnie has been wandering around this forum...talking about channel 2 triggers, talking about some XMC stuff, but is ignoring this thread and the questions.

Am I the only one who doesn't know the best way to set up the UMC-1 bass? Is it so obvious that no one else needs any hints?

I'm sort of baffled.....unless Lonnie doesn't actually know how to answer the questions and help us....but wasn't he the designer with Dan???

Hey...I accept it works as designed....just help us set up our UMC-1's so we can use it as designed.

Strange....

Sweet, looking forward to it, thanks Lonnie!

Some things are better explained using visual aides rather than simply written words. I totally get it.

Almost a complete re-write of the manual will be needed. I believe that it would be best if that is done once we have a fully operational (production release) UMC-1.

In the meantime, the usage of a video demonstration to address particular issues, is not unreasonable IMHO. Alternately, EMO could have a sticky for correcting particular processor issues under the Processor Topic.

Like all other EMO products that I've bought, I would like my UMC-1 to be delivered to me with an up to date manual in the carton.

In a sense, I really feel for you guys who have to wait so long for these piece meal updates. Your complete satisfaction is just around the corner though!

jamrock

I would think even a downloadable updated manual, as some have suggested would be ideal for most if not all owners.

To me this would be the way to go but for some reason Emotiva has not attempted it. Even if it was done in segments before the final FW was done. Simple things like the fact that the calibration levels are volume dependent, this is still not mentioned in the current manual.

I would think the time taken to update the manual would greatly decrease the calls to Emotiva from people asking basic setup questions. This would also bring down the frustration level especially if someone had a question after Emotiva's office is closed.

Bill

How timely? Well, right now, there is no way for a user to know how to calibrate their UMC-1 so that Dolby Volume works correctly....in fact, most users probably find that if they try dolby volume it distorts their sound. The sticky which should have helped users (which I wrote and LC posted as a sticky) has disappeared.

So I'd say the timing is somewhere between pretty good and way way overdue. A video is better than nothing...in fact anything is better than nothing.

On a personal note, it's frustrating to write something that would help all users (how to calibrate a UMC-1 for Dolby Volume), have it accepted and posted as a sticky so it was there to help...and then find that it was deleted. It seems that those of us who would like to help others can't even do it here in the forums.

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that from a user's perspective, Emotiva is committed to making sure that users can't optimize the UMC-1 ..... (but that's my frustration talking).

Why would a helpfull sticky get deleted??