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Post by qaz on Jun 3, 2012 10:49:37 GMT -5
some of features of the announced new AVRs are quite interesting.. like 3 hdmi out including zone 2 HDMI, 11.2 surround processing...
While initially getting excited abt the XMC then dismayed that its lacking in basic features for a high end processor like dual HDMI & video upscaling now I've realised the XMC will likely be a no frills, low in features but no nonsence high sound quality.. it only does the basic stuff but likely to do it damn well
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Post by billmac on Jun 3, 2012 10:55:54 GMT -5
Regarding the Marantz "house sound" that was in reference to sharkman's earlier post. I have never owned a Marantz but I have read about how the Marantz AVRs of days past had a specific sound (warm?) to them. I'm not sure if its true or rumored . I do not believe AVRs or prepros have unique sound characteristics as a rule. At least not ones that really stand out that someone could easily identify on a consistent basis. As I just said I do agree with that claim to a point. I have owned a number of amps, AVRs, prepros and DACs at different price points. With that I have never found anything but very subtle differences and at times no SQ differences at all. I think quite a few people are guilty of the placebo effect. That is when placing a new component in their system and they go on about how it transforms their system to new heights . The only time I have experienced that is when I have upgraded my speakers. I have never experienced that with any amp, AVR, prepro or DAC change. But I have noticed a subtle improvement in the SQ of my system with both music and HT with XT32 over XT. As has been mentioned many times an issue free launch of the XMC-1 is key to its success. I bought the UMC-1 as well to get the upgrade card. I recently bought the 4311 which I'm quite happy with. The Anthem's with ARC are well regarded. The 40.2 does not have XT32 so that doesn't interest me. I have no interest in the Pioneer due to not having a decent room correction system. Bill
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jun 3, 2012 13:43:08 GMT -5
I know that Bose & Sony ES do not allow merchants to discount their products unless they issue a consumer discount coupon or if they authorize a sale of the products. The reason that a manufacturer discount its products are varied. I think that Emo did the right thing to offer the discount while sales was still strong to ensure a complete dissipation of units. That decision has nothing to do with the quality of the product.
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Post by suffolk112000 on Jun 3, 2012 19:02:25 GMT -5
I don't know, does the 4311 suck? Was I saying that the UMC sucks? And why is the Marantz still selling near it's full retail since it's at the end of it's life cycle and being replaced? No, I don't think the 4311 sucks... that's why I have been considering it. I don't want to point fingers, but actually… I think you were pretty much stating that YOU felt the UMC-1 sucked, the way you worded your quote above and below. Sorry, you can spin it and say what you want, but I believe your verbiage is quite clear. The point is the Marantz is still selling for it's full retail price, but the UMC has been heavily discounted, which tells us the Marantz is selling fine while the UMC needed some help. What else are you saying in that statement, other than trolling…?
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Post by sharkman on Jun 3, 2012 22:50:05 GMT -5
I am saying that the UMC needed some help in sales while the Marantz did not, but think whatever you like.
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Post by suffolk112000 on Jun 3, 2012 23:14:15 GMT -5
I wanted to also address this comment... That's what happens at the end of a products life cyle. You can usually pick them up at a discount. Does the Denon 4311 suck? It MSRP'd for $2000 at initial release. Now you can pick one up for just north of $1200. Would you call that being 'heavily discounted'? I know I would. There is a UMC-2 in the future. Just as I'm sure there is a Denon in the future to replace the 4311. I don't know, does the 4311 suck? Was I saying that the UMC sucks? And why is the Marantz still selling near it's full retail since it's at the end of it's life cycle and being replaced?Must be because the Marantz is soooo awesome. There... now do you feel better about your purchase? Move along now... there's nothing to see here. LMAO…
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Post by suffolk112000 on Jun 3, 2012 23:21:27 GMT -5
Sharkman... why did you change your post... LMAO.
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Post by sharkman on Jun 4, 2012 7:50:02 GMT -5
I added "think what you like".
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Post by suffolk112000 on Jun 4, 2012 11:49:40 GMT -5
Hey Sharkman... I understand. As far as A/V gear, I understand everyone’s tastes are different. And I’m not just talking about the tonal quality of gear. Some need the features you find on receivers more than others. Me, I don’t need any of it. I have a dedicated room where I watch movies and even listen to some two channel music. So when I go into my theater, I don't use it like I do my surround set-up in my living room. For me, most of the features you see on the new receivers will never be used. Some say the Anthem receivers are even bare from a features stand-point. From my perspective, they look loaded to the gills. I haven’t made a decision YET. IF I get a receiver… it’ll probably be either the Anthem MRX-300 or the Denon 4311.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jun 4, 2012 12:12:05 GMT -5
If it has no video passthru with power off; Connect a hdmi soplitter to the cable box out. From the splitter (1) Connect to the XMC-1 to hdmi 1 on the TV. (2) From the splitter directly to hdmi 2 on the TV. Solved. Hopefully, the great sound of the XMC-1 makes up for the added energy needed to press 2 more buttons on the remote. Hopefully, this will be a moot issue ;D. Jamrock- thanks for the response and suggestion but my 2004 Samsung DLP only has one HDMI input. Purchased it to watch the 2004 Summer Olympics; never thought I'd be watching the 2012 Summer Olympics on it. The damn thing won't die. Russ
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Post by jeffrey8mm on Jun 6, 2012 16:26:00 GMT -5
Hey guys I am sure someone has asked this already, but how does the Tact room correction in the XMC-1 compare to Audyessy,Trinov, and ARC? How is it the same and how is it different. I Have an Onkyo TXNR 809 with an XPA-3 at the moment and I am really interested in this piece. Room correction is a must have for me and I love the Audyessy XT in the Onkyo. Is Tact as good, better, same? I don't know anything about it.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 6, 2012 16:47:36 GMT -5
Don't think we'll really know how it compares until after people start listening. Right now it's all theoretical (aside from some slight correlation between the original Tact products and others )
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Post by Pauly on Jun 6, 2012 16:52:56 GMT -5
Yep, nobody knows for sure. The Tact room correction has gotten rave reviews from magazines and users, and it's supposed to be one of the best out there, but nobody knows how it's going to be implemented in the XMC. It could be the full real deal Tact (doubtful) or it could be some dumbed down version made specifically for Emo, which is the most likely scenario imo. But that could work out very well too. But like I said, we just don't know yet. We shall see (hear) soon.
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Post by jeffrey8mm on Jun 6, 2012 17:04:39 GMT -5
Thanks, I will keep waiting like everyone else then. I am looking forward to knowing. I hope its a winner because it looks like Outlaw's pre/pro will never come out.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jun 6, 2012 17:29:45 GMT -5
If only there was a rule that each poster list his/her preference to whit: audio or video. Then we could better understand the basis for some of these posts. If you want the lastest video processing, the XMC-1 is not for you. It only passes video untouched but allows for OSD on live video without degradation. If you are not a newbie to A/V, you would easily understand that the BRP & the TV is the best place to process your video./ Otherwise, get a video scaler (e.g. DVDO Edge, Green).
Now, why is it that when some speculate about the XMC-1 it is always negative. Why is it that the XMC-1 might not perform as advertized, but it is assumed that the new Onkyo, Marantz and Denon will perform correctly? TacT has never had a bad review. So why is it "iffy" because it is implemented in the XMC-1? Why is it "watered down?" in the XMC-1 and not the full monty in a processor for the first time? What, are we going to get false Fletcher / Munson curves? False loudness contours? False room correction? C'mon guys!
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Post by snodog on Jun 7, 2012 1:47:56 GMT -5
On paper? I guess that would depend on what features you want in a prepro/AVR. As far as features the 818 and the AV7007 will have a much more current feature set than the XMC-1. So depending on what features you are looking for the 818 and the AV7007 could very well compete with the XMC-1. The key is if the XMC-1 does have a solid launch and that TacT is all that it looks like it can be. Bill Yep, that's the bottom line, if the XMC has a launch with multiple bugs and issues, while Marantz, Onkyo, Integra and Outlaw have models that are solid, people will tend to go for the trouble free option. I wasn't aware that the Marantz 7007 wouldn't have the XT32. That seems to be the way the Denon group is going while Onkyo offers it in an AVR for 950! Any word on the improvements the 7007 will have? Im not sure I entirely agree, I would take sound quality over something trouble-free, if its buggy it is a pain but most likely will be fixed in reasonable time. There were days I hated hated the UMC but with some help I have it set to where it sounds great and never any problems.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jun 7, 2012 2:15:15 GMT -5
If only there was a rule that each poster list his/her preference to whit: audio or video. Then we could better understand the basis for some of these posts. If you want the lastest video processing, the XMC-1 is not for you. It only passes video untouched but allows for OSD on live video without degradation. If you are not a newbie to A/V, you would easily understand that the BRP & the TV is the best place to process your video./ Otherwise, get a video scaler (e.g. DVDO Edge, Green). Now, why is it that when some speculate about the XMC-1 it is always negative. Why is it that the XMC-1 might not perform as advertized, but it is assumed that the new Onkyo, Marantz and Denon will perform correctly? TacT has never had a bad review. So why is it "iffy" because it is implemented in the XMC-1? Why is it "watered down?" in the XMC-1 and not the full monty in a processor for the first time? What, are we going to get false Fletcher / Munson curves? False loudness contours? False room correction? C'mon guys! Because we just don't know enough about it yet. So we're just being cautious. Nothing wrong with that. People assume that the Onkyos and Denons etc will work because they use Audyssey, which they've used for a while now so everybody pretty much knows what to expect. If Onkyo announced that their new prepro would feature Tact room correction in a sub $1,500 piece, I would be skeptical of that as well. Audyssey is used in many different units, and I would imagine that the manufacturers are able to utilize Audyssey at a pretty affordable price. Tact isn't really used in anything (maybe a version in the Macintosh pre/pro?) and the stand alone units cost a bagillion dollars. So I wouldn't think Emo would be able to use the "Full Monty" version of Tact and keep the XMC in the $1,500 price range. I am really cheering for Emo, and I hope the XMC is a huge success, but I'm just not getting my hopes up regarding Tact. We shall see. Until then, I don't see anything wrong with being skeptical.
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Post by bborzell on Jun 7, 2012 8:17:13 GMT -5
If only there was a rule that each poster list his/her preference to whit: audio or video. Then we could better understand the basis for some of these posts. If you want the lastest video processing, the XMC-1 is not for you. It only passes video untouched but allows for OSD on live video without degradation. If you are not a newbie to A/V, you would easily understand that the BRP & the TV is the best place to process your video./ Otherwise, get a video scaler (e.g. DVDO Edge, Green). Now, why is it that when some speculate about the XMC-1 it is always negative. Why is it that the XMC-1 might not perform as advertized, but it is assumed that the new Onkyo, Marantz and Denon will perform correctly? TacT has never had a bad review. So why is it "iffy" because it is implemented in the XMC-1? Why is it "watered down?" in the XMC-1 and not the full monty in a processor for the first time? What, are we going to get false Fletcher / Munson curves? False loudness contours? False room correction? C'mon guys! Because we just don't know enough about it yet. So we're just being cautious. Nothing wrong with that. People assume that the Onkyos and Denons etc will work because they use Audyssey, which they've used for a while now so everybody pretty much knows what to expect. If Onkyo announced that their new prepro would feature Tact room correction in a sub $1,500 piece, I would be skeptical of that as well. Audyssey is used in many different units, and I would imagine that the manufacturers are able to utilize Audyssey at a pretty affordable price. Tact isn't really used in anything (maybe a version in the Macintosh pre/pro?) and the stand alone units cost a bagillion dollars. So I wouldn't think Emo would be able to use the "Full Monty" version of Tact and keep the XMC in the $1,500 price range. I am really cheering for Emo, and I hope the XMC is a huge success, but I'm just not getting my hopes up regarding Tact. We shall see. Until then, I don't see anything wrong with being skeptical. There is one thing wrong with being skeptical about the XMC-1. It simply adds nothing to the body of knowledge about the product. Skepticism is fine for religion and other concepts where belief comes before experience, but for the impending release of a product, what is the value in telling the world that you are doubtul? Emotiva has a 30 day return policy. If you buy an XMC-1 and you end up not wanting to keep it, you can simply return it. But, if you really doubt that the product will perform as described by the manufacturer, then why even follow this thread? I am skeptical of things that cannot be proven. The ability of Emotiva to produce high quality products at more than fair prices has been proven many times over.
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Post by Tip on Jun 7, 2012 8:53:29 GMT -5
Now, why is it that when some speculate about the XMC-1 it is always negative. Why is it that the XMC-1 might not perform as advertized, but it is assumed that the new Onkyo, Marantz and Denon will perform correctly? TacT has never had a bad review. So why is it "iffy" because it is implemented in the XMC-1? Why is it "watered down?" in the XMC-1 and not the full monty in a processor for the first time? What, are we going to get false Fletcher / Munson curves? False loudness contours? False room correction? C'mon guys! Audyssey is used in many different units, and I would imagine that the manufacturers are able to utilize Audyssey at a pretty affordable price. Tact isn't really used in anything (maybe a version in the Macintosh pre/pro?) and the stand alone units cost a bagillion dollars. So I wouldn't think Emo would be able to use the "Full Monty" version of Tact and keep the XMC in the $1,500 price range. TacT hasn't been used in another pre/pro (the top Macintosh uses Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect; the lower model uses Audyssey because it is based on a Marantz pre/pro.) The question is whether the XMC-1 has enough processing power to implement the same version of TacT room correction as the TacT TCS mkIII. That is, do the correction filters have the same number of taps, and are the computations performed using the same floating-point precision as the TCS? The TCS has one DSP per channel (including subs), while the XMC-1 shares only two DSPs for all channels IIRC. One of the reasons the TCS is so expensive, besides the hardware cost, is that TacT has to pay for the HDMI, Dolby, DTS, etc. licenses, which probably are even more expensive since the TCS has digital outputs for all the channels, and the TCS has a very low sales volume to spread out the cost.
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Post by Tip on Jun 7, 2012 10:08:45 GMT -5
TacT has never had a bad review. So why is it "iffy" because it is implemented in the XMC-1? Why is it "watered down?" in the XMC-1 and not the full monty in a processor for the first time? What, are we going to get false Fletcher / Munson curves? False loudness contours? False room correction? C'mon guys! Just an observation: Most of the members of the TacT Audio Users Group (TAUG) don't use the DRC (Dynamic Room Correction) option. The TacT processors already provide nine correction presets, so if one wants a different target response based on the listening level, a different preset easily can be selected. When DRC was introduced we thought it was sort of a gimmick and would have preferred a more significant improvement like more taps in the correction filters.
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