bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on May 17, 2013 23:06:41 GMT -5
It should still be easier than this. No lessons learned from the umc-1? Unplug cable at the right time? really? The question needs to be asked. if the upgrade process is no different that that of the umc-1, experience alone should tell you that as a company you really don't want to do this the same way again. I guess I'm the only one that sees it this way. I'm just disappointed, that's all. I hope the xmc isn't the same.
|
|
|
Post by meldhache on May 17, 2013 23:20:08 GMT -5
Yes in my case, I did remove the USB cable from the UMC 200 before the final power up and defaults reboot on the setup menu but i better add this to the list. I hope I am not giving modified instructions for a melt down but i was desperate to get the unit going Mel
|
|
|
Post by spiette on May 17, 2013 23:24:30 GMT -5
Done! I followed the instructions fully and waited at each step for the error messages to stop and the volume to ramp before flashing the next file.
No long delays, no problems, no error messages after final reboot. Now running 1.52.02.39
Time to go play and recalibrate.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on May 17, 2013 23:31:05 GMT -5
It is quite unusual to end up with a bad load if all four modules reported that they loaded successfully. However, it is possible, which is why the first thing to do is to try reloading all four modules. With the UMC-200, the "eternal loading loop" doesn't usually occur, even with a failed update. However, if it does, Denist's suggestion about how to escape from it is precisely the method we recommend: Start the updater program on your PC with the UMC-200 Off (or disconnected), set it to update the fourth module, hit START (ignore the box that pops up; DO NOT click OK on it), then connect and power on the UMC-200. You can then go back and install the other three modules (they CAN be installed out of order with no problem). [We normally suggest loading just the fourth module this way, and then going back to reload the other three, but either way seems to work.] The reason we don't recommend this as the default way of doing the update is that connecting the USB cable during the update process (while the power is on) CAN cause other issues - so the way we told you to do it (leaving the wire connected) is normally more reliable. Since every new firmware build utilizes the hardware slightly differently, it is remotely possible that a firmware update may expose a latent hardware flaw in a defective unit. If so, then you have a hardware problem which needs to be fixed, and we will take care of you. If you really can't get the update to work, just call support and we'll be glad to help you, or you can send your UMC-200 in and we'll be glad to do the update for you. And, finally, a (more or less) personal note from me to you: Firmware update procedures run the full gamut in terms on convenience. Some devices don't have firmware that can be updated at all, and some can only be updated by the factory. Some software (like Windows) requires so many updates that they just send them out without asking (every "patch Tuesday"), and you just hope that your computer doesn't mysteriously stop working the morning after. We do our best to have as few firmware updates as possible, and, when we have to do one, to make it as painless as possible. With any luck you won't be doing this very often... and, honestly, we're not eager to spend a lot more money to make the process a few minutes quicker or the loader more impressive (if we did, we'd have to charge more for our products to pay for all the pretty software). I've seen a lot of both ends of the spectrum, and I think we've hit a pretty good compromise between convenience and expediency. You "can't see it from out there", but the UMC-200 updater is MUCH more reliable, and much less likely to not work, than the updater for the UMC-1. Public forums always exaggerate the negative; we have a lot of UMC-200's out there, and most of them will be updated quickly and successfully... and we do apologize to the few of you who have problems (and we're always here to help when it happens). [Just try and get Microsoft on the phone when your Windows PC won't boot....] Denist method as follows These are the steps I took 1:Power off umc from the back 2:Unplug USB cable only from PC 3:Run twe program on your PC 4: Find upgrade file and click re program and select all files and hit start 5:A box saying USB comes up with all kind of glibberists 6:Power on umc from the back but Leave it on amber 7:Plug USB cable in the PC and power on umc 200 8:then the USB box disappears and it start loading on the 4Th file 9:And then loads the rest from top 1,2,3 10: make sure all files indicates successfull. 11:don't forget load defaults instructions at the end. 12: you're done Many thanks to DENIST, actually I believe the pdf should use his method Mel I tried several different ways to load this firmware, kept ending up with "dsp" and "osd flash" errors and/or mismatch. Yes, I did it as Keith says "EXACTLY AS WE INSTRUCTED YOU" several times with the same result (errors and mismatch) from 2 different computers, although they are both running Windows 7 64 bit. Used the above method and no more errors. Further testing will have to wait until tomorrow. THANK YOU DENIST!
|
|
hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,916
|
Post by hemster on May 17, 2013 23:42:26 GMT -5
Pics showing upgrade process: Attachments:
|
|
hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,916
|
Post by hemster on May 17, 2013 23:44:32 GMT -5
I got through the first 3 updates just fine without any issues. But Step 4 gave me status "Failed!" with the UMC-200 reading "Loading......." After step 4 gave me a "Failed" status, I kept getting the "Loading.........." forever! I followed the steps in the PDF instructions.. to the letter this time!! (I may have missed something before as I was 3 glasses of wine under and watching Sidney Crosby prove why he's going to overtake Gretzsky!). It all worked like a charm. Now I'm at the latest version. Was it as smooth as butter? No. But then, it wasn't a total disaster either. It never ceases to amaze me how people always have things to say about the upgrade process including "I didn't actually try it.. oh wait... I don't even own a UMC-200!" Pic in post above shows progress...
|
|
|
Post by melm on May 17, 2013 23:46:32 GMT -5
Tried several times. Software reported all loads were successful, but still see the OSD errors and DSP mismatch errors. On startup the UMC does report the right firmware numbers, but obviously not everything has loaded.
Hope EMO has some good ideas, and it's odd that many people who are loading it are using methods not specified.
|
|
|
Post by meldhache on May 17, 2013 23:49:13 GMT -5
Thanks Keith for your incredible expertise and insight. Further testing tomorrow with the improved emo q. Mel
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on May 18, 2013 0:03:28 GMT -5
I'm just disappointed, that's all. I hope the xmc isn't the same. The XMC-1 however should be different, I think the comparison is: USB stick firmware update on XMC-1 vs PC/USB cable on UMC-200
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on May 18, 2013 0:04:54 GMT -5
I agree, the bootloader only needs to do what it has to do and that's all. Where I disagree, is that many of the components are down rev and should be updated. I do this for a living. I support 4 different packages that are written in VB 6.0, and have bootloaders. It has been a process to bring them from their Windows XP days up to Windows 8. The updates were made for a reason and in many cases fixed operational problems. These problems may not show up on every system, but they are there. It is such a simple fix requiring only a rebuild on a system that is current. It would take me an hour. ......we're not eager to spend a lot more money to make the process a few minutes quicker or the loader more impressive... This is something I don't understand. You've got a pile of software engineers that are on this forum. If you'd give us the protocol most of us would be more than happy to create a newer and better bootloader just because we love Emotiva products and coding!
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on May 18, 2013 0:05:47 GMT -5
I can see from your pictures what happened...... You tried to load all four modules at once (I see multiple check marks). It certainly seems like it should work if you do it that way, and the updater application obviously offers the option, but in reality it usually doesn't work if you do all four at once (I don't know exactly why) - which is why the instructions say to do it the slow and boring way.... one at a time I don't really follow hockey, but I sort of thought Gretzsky was going to stay on top forever I got through the first 3 updates just fine without any issues. But Step 4 gave me status "Failed!" with the UMC-200 reading "Loading......." After step 4 gave me a "Failed" status, I kept getting the "Loading.........." forever! I followed the steps in the PDF instructions.. to the letter this time!! (I may have missed something before as I was 3 glasses of wine under and watching Sidney Crosby prove why he's going to overtake Gretzsky!). It all worked like a charm. Now I'm at the latest version. Was it as smooth as butter? No. But then, it wasn't a total disaster either. It never ceases to amaze me how people always have things to say about the upgrade process including "I didn't actually try it.. oh wait... I don't even own a UMC-200!" Pic in post above shows progress...
|
|
|
Post by denist on May 18, 2013 0:10:14 GMT -5
See I have done it a few times even tried the PDF method from emo and always the first 3 goes really fast gets to the 4th and it fails....
Them u get the loading loop
Then u need to do my method to get all 4 files loaded
I have tried it and it work always my way but the PDF way always fails
So I think if you want to save the hassle if the loading loop do it my way and the files take about 20mins to load
And you will be on the new firmware
Denis
|
|
hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,916
|
Post by hemster on May 18, 2013 0:12:17 GMT -5
Yep, followed the PDF doing things one update at a time but the 4 th one got me stuck in a "Loading....." loop... So I tried to do things a little differently.. and it worked. I still had the pleasure to spend about 20-30 minutes on the process in total, staring at the screen but the end result is good, so all in all not too bad. The upgrade Gods always take some sacrifice. Gretzsky is a legend but forever is a loooooong time! I can see from your pictures what happened...... You tried to load all four modules at once (I see multiple check marks). It certainly seems like it should work if you do it that way, and the updater application obviously offers the option, but in reality it usually doesn't work if you do all four at once (I don't know exactly why) - which is why the instructions say to do it the slow and boring way.... one at a time I don't really follow hockey, but I sort of thought Gretzsky was going to stay on top forever I got through the first 3 updates just fine without any issues. But Step 4 gave me status "Failed!" with the UMC-200 reading "Loading......." After step 4 gave me a "Failed" status, I kept getting the "Loading.........." forever! I followed the steps in the PDF instructions.. to the letter this time!! (I may have missed something before as I was 3 glasses of wine under and watching Sidney Crosby prove why he's going to overtake Gretzsky!). It all worked like a charm. Now I'm at the latest version. Was it as smooth as butter? No. But then, it wasn't a total disaster either. It never ceases to amaze me how people always have things to say about the upgrade process including "I didn't actually try it.. oh wait... I don't even own a UMC-200!" Pic in post above shows progress...
|
|
|
Post by melm on May 18, 2013 0:17:00 GMT -5
I have tried all the ways stated with the EMO PDF being the worst. To release a firmware update on a Friday night with no one at the phones is a bit disappointing. I simply can't get this to work, and I've done hundreds of firmware updates over the years. I've left a number with support, and I'm hoping someone will get to me this weekend so I might actually be able to use what was a fine piece of equipment until tonight. That people are finding ways around the EMO method is disturbing. The instructions should also have included recovery directions if such a thing is possible. I don't mind running old firmware, but I don't want to run no firmware, which is my current situation. Thanks.. hope to hear from someone before the weekend is over. Mel
|
|
hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,916
|
Post by hemster on May 18, 2013 0:19:14 GMT -5
To those that somehow think that releasing the update on a Friday means they must install it on Friday and Emotiva must provide weekend support coverage... You may have noticed that Keith is around and offering useful suggestions... on a Friday night! Now back to my Microsoft update... no sign of support staff on their forums... and the outsourced "help" recommended upgrading to a new OS (Windoze 8!) on a laptop that's only 4 months old!
|
|
|
Post by billmac on May 18, 2013 0:19:28 GMT -5
It never ceases to amaze me how people always have things to say about the upgrade process including "I didn't actually try it.. oh wait... I don't even own a UMC-200!" Hemster, No I do not own the UMC-200. But why is it a problem if people that do not own the UMC-200 voice their opinion? I look at the issues that people are having with the new FW of the UMC-200 and it is a cause for concern as a possible buyer of the UMC-200. As I said earlier two components that I have work much easier than the process I see for the UMC-200's FW update. If this will be the norm then I do not want to deal with problems when trying to update the FW if I buy the UMC-200. I'm not well versed with computers so I could see it being an issue for myself. Maybe for others well versed with computers it will not be an issue. Bill
|
|
|
Post by billmac on May 18, 2013 0:22:35 GMT -5
Now back to my Microsoft update... no sign of support staff on their forums... and the outsourced "help" recommended upgrading to a new OS (Windoze 8!) on a laptop that's only 4 months old! Hemster, No offense but how is Microsoft FW issues relative to FW loading issues with an audio component such as the UMC-200? Bill
|
|
|
Post by melm on May 18, 2013 0:23:41 GMT -5
Having been in the software business for some years, and managed multimillion dollar projects, I can say that many companies staff these software updates so people are not left in the lurch. I always did. If software is released on a Friday night, it should be reliable and supported on Friday night. As the saying goes, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on May 18, 2013 0:26:14 GMT -5
Well, stranger things have happened.... Obviously there are several combinations and orders that do work; we picked the one that works the most often, but every computer is slightly different, and there are even minute hardware and timing differences between individual UMC-200 units. I'm glad you got yours sorted out. In the end, by and large, this updater is a lot smoother than the one for the UMC-1, so I figure we've done OK with it. As I'm sure somebody in software development once said: "If you hold a product until you're sure it's totally absolutely perfect, you'll never have a dissatisfied customer. Of course, that's because you'll never be able to release it." Yep, followed the PDF doing things one update at a time but the 4 th one got me stuck in a "Loading....." loop... So I tried to do things a little differently.. and it worked. I still had the pleasure to spend about 20-30 minutes on the process in total, staring at the screen but the end result is good, so all in all not too bad. The upgrade Gods always take some sacrifice. Gretzsky is a legend but forever is a loooooong time! I can see from your pictures what happened...... You tried to load all four modules at once (I see multiple check marks). It certainly seems like it should work if you do it that way, and the updater application obviously offers the option, but in reality it usually doesn't work if you do all four at once (I don't know exactly why) - which is why the instructions say to do it the slow and boring way.... one at a time I don't really follow hockey, but I sort of thought Gretzsky was going to stay on top forever
|
|
hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,916
|
Post by hemster on May 18, 2013 0:32:29 GMT -5
Bill, Voicing concerns is not a problem (at least on this forum!). It's just amazing that people always find ways to state their opinions without having tried the process.
Yes, I admit the update experience is not as easy as the components you mention. But it's not that bad either. I did all the updates on my UMC-1 and that was much worse than this latest effort. So there is a definite improvement.
Is it as easy as pushing a button? If only! I do believe that Emotiva would gladly opt for that.. if it were an option. But then we'd be asking for the update to occur without even a button press...
As Keith says, updates of software (firmware) is a complex process and there are a lot of variables. Fortunately, us users aren't faced with having to do this too often.
I'm stuck with an update that won't run on my Windows 7 laptop. 3 weeks and 7 calls into support... best they can do is to recommend I upgrade to Windows 8. The laptop is practically new!
|
|