Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 2,069 Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin
Re: What to look for in a sub « Reply #20 on Jan 24, 2010, 2:35pm »
Quote:
Very nice! Learned a bit and clarified some things for me. Do you have other articles that you can share with us? Or, please pm me if you don't want to post them on the Emo boards.
dyohn is one of the most knowledgeable forum members here. After reading the posts here for a while, you get to know which posters know their stuff, and which do not.
Very nice! Learned a bit and clarified some things for me. Do you have other articles that you can share with us? Or, please pm me if you don't want to post them on the Emo boards.
dyohn is one of the most knowledgeable forum members here. After reading the posts here for a while, you get to know which posters know their stuff, and which do not.
Alot of what he posted, has been stated before by numerous people in many, many different articles well before he posted his last statement in whatever article originally(And Id like to see a link to that original article if you can provide it. ). And alot of it is still very generalized. Things like common testing practices like testing speakers sensitivity at 1khz in an anechoic chamber is something that is almost 100% worthless to a sub. What matters more for testing a sub is the effciency of the driver itself couple with its enclosure to keep it real simple. Again as I originally stated, this is where knowing the subs actual design paramaters coupled with the chambers design and size come into play on how efficient it will be and its needed power requirements.
Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 2,069 Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin
Re: What to look for in a sub « Reply #22 on Jan 24, 2010, 2:51pm »
Quote:
Alot of what he posted, has been stated before by numerous people in many, many different articles well before he posted his last statement in whatever article originally(And Id like to see a link to that original article if you can provide it. ). And alot of it is still very generalized. Things like common testing practices like testing speakers sensitivity at 1khz in an anechoic chamber is something that is almost 100% worthless to a sub. What matters more for testing a sub is the effciency of the driver itself couple with its enclosure to keep it real simple. Again as I originally stated, this is where knowing the subs actual design paramaters coupled with the chambers design and size come into play on how efficient it will be and its needed power requirements.
^^^ I rest my case^^^
After reading the posts here for a while, you get to know which posters know their stuff, and which do not
Alot of what he posted, has been stated before by numerous people in many, many different articles well before he posted his last statement in whatever article originally(And Id like to see a link to that original article if you can provide it. ). And alot of it is still very generalized. Things like common testing practices like testing speakers sensitivity at 1khz in an anechoic chamber is something that is almost 100% worthless to a sub. What matters more for testing a sub is the effciency of the driver itself couple with its enclosure to keep it real simple. Again as I originally stated, this is where knowing the subs actual design paramaters coupled with the chambers design and size come into play on how efficient it will be and its needed power requirements.
^^^ I rest my case^^^
After reading the posts here for a while, you get to know which posters know their stuff, and which do not
ca
And honestly, your one of the ones whom does NOT KNOW. BTW, How are those MMG's doing? Are you "intimately familiar" with them yet?
Very nice! Learned a bit and clarified some things for me. Do you have other articles that you can share with us? Or, please pm me if you don't want to post them on the Emo boards.
dyohn is one of the most knowledgeable forum members here. After reading the posts here for a while, you get to know which posters know their stuff, and which do not.
I disagree about the benefits of a downfiring design. "Compression loaded" with the floor?
In my experience down-firing subwoofers can be more problematic in-room than front-firing in terms of activating room modes that must be dealt with using treatments. Coupling with the floor can lead to excessive boominess, and changing position in the room has less effect on correcting these issues. Floor bounce cannot be controlled with a downfiring design.
In my opinion, there is no benefit to down-firing VS any other driver position except for possibly aesthetics and physical protection for the driver if you have small children in the house.
Also, while sealed systems tend to be easier to integrate with a room due to their shallower roll-off and lower group delay characteristics, I prefer the sound of vented alignments. This is mostly a taste thing and each user will have their own preferences.
Boominess? Not at all, if your getting "boominess" then your gains are set too high, or your sub is located to close to a room corner or wall. Downfiring or boundary loading as it is also know as, allows you to turn down gains and increases and flattens out frequency response naturally. Lower gains also means less harmonic distortion. It also naturally DECREASES LOCALIZATION of higher frequencies it may be playing allowing your sub to blend in better with your main satalites and allows the unit to disappear.
Didnt they teach you this in THX certification school?
I enjoyed/learn reading all kind of information/opinion from different people, including post from you. But honestly, why you're so rude and cynic putting that kind of question? What you get with this?
Boominess? Not at all, if your getting "boominess" then your gains are set too high, or your sub is located to close to a room corner or wall. Downfiring or boundary loading as it is also know as, allows you to turn down gains and increases and flattens out frequency response naturally. Lower gains also means less harmonic distortion. It also naturally DECREASES LOCALIZATION of higher frequencies it may be playing allowing your sub to blend in better with your main satalites and allows the unit to disappear.
Didnt they teach you this in THX certification school?
I enjoyed/learn reading all kind of information/opinion from different people, including post from you. But honestly, why you're so rude and cynic putting that kind of question? What you get with this?
If you have seen some previous posts, you would understand that some of these comments are justified. There are a few people here who go out of their way to try and discredit what I say on a regular basis without any logical basis.
I enjoyed/learn reading all kind of information/opinion from different people, including post from you. But honestly, why you're so rude and cynic putting that kind of question? What you get with this?
If you have seen some previous posts, you would understand that some of these comments are justified. There are a few people here who go out of their way to try and discredit what I say on a regular basis without any logical basis.
I believe what papajac was asking, is why are you so cynical and rude to others when posting conflicting comments or offering a differing view. It's as if phsycologically you are being threatened and there is some underlying issue that compells you to attack everyones views. If this is indeed the case, then you need to take a few seconds to analyze what truly matters as a response, then take 2 big breaths and carry on with your reply!
Doing so will lower your blood pressure, clear your head, and make your differing view less of an attack and more of a productive answer for the original bearer of the post.
If this is not the case, then I think your Avatar pretty much says it all....
SPOILED ROTTEN LITTLE BULLY!
I would hope that the latter is not the case though!
If you have seen some previous posts, you would understand that some of these comments are justified. There are a few people here who go out of their way to try and discredit what I say on a regular basis without any logical basis.
I believe what papajac was asking, is why are you so cynical and rude to others when posting conflicting comments or offering a differing view. It's as if phsycologically you are being threatened and there is some underlying issue that compells you to attack everyones views. If this is indeed the case, then you need to take a few seconds to analyze what truly matters as a response, then take 2 big breaths and carry on with your reply!
Doing so will lower your blood pressure, clear your head, and make your differing view less of an attack and more of a productive answer for the original bearer of the post.
If this is not the case, then I think your Avatar pretty much says it all....
SPOILED ROTTEN LITTLE BULLY!
I would hope that the latter is not the case though!
This is EXACTLY right. I would never have a problem with ntrain if he would have some class...but instead he acts as if everyone else is stupid and only he can be correct.
Ntrain, perhaps you need to read over your posts again, because they can be VERY condescending...obviously its not just me that sees this. You have been told this several times now...Obviously we all do this at times, but you continue to do it over and over and over again.
« Last Edit: Jan 25, 2010, 12:42pm by bigred7078 »
-Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand mains in rosewood -Vienna Acoustics Maestro Grand center in rosewood -Pro-ject Xpression III turntable -Vincent PHO-111 phono pre-amp
If you have seen some previous posts, you would understand that some of these comments are justified. There are a few people here who go out of their way to try and discredit what I say on a regular basis without any logical basis.
I believe what papajac was asking, is why are you so cynical and rude to others when posting conflicting comments or offering a differing view. It's as if phsycologically you are being threatened and there is some underlying issue that compells you to attack everyones views. If this is indeed the case, then you need to take a few seconds to analyze what truly matters as a response, then take 2 big breaths and carry on with your reply!
Doing so will lower your blood pressure, clear your head, and make your differing view less of an attack and more of a productive answer for the original bearer of the post.
If this is not the case, then I think your Avatar pretty much says it all....
SPOILED ROTTEN LITTLE BULLY!
I would hope that the latter is not the case though!
Because most conflicting "opinions" are done without any "rhyme or reason", or no real knowledge or experience on the subject.
Hell I got in a tiff with Strindl after I made some observations and comments based on serious physical experience with a specific speaker range. He comes in and contradicts/discredits my knowledge, going so far as to say he had intimate knowledge and experience with 3 specific speaker models. 4 weeks later he opens up a thread stating basically that he had NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever on one of those model speakers from that previous thread posted one month earlier.
And people wonder why I post with sarcasm or as some people percieve a condescending tone? At least I back up my posts with specific points and reasoning, most others don't, or as in the case of Strindl get caught in an obvious fib..........
Joined: Dec 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 744 Location: London, Ontario Canada
Re: What to look for in a sub « Reply #35 on Jan 25, 2010, 2:41pm »
I'll take Dutch Apple and a Double Double Please!
As for everything else, how about we get back to snodogs post "WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN A SUB!"
Now again.... Everyone offer their advice in a polite and curtious manner.... Be careful not to insult or ridicule anyone! Just post your suggestions and let snodog mull through all the advice and info he's received.. Then he can take his new knowledge and decide on a sub for himself.....
Remember.... This is a FORUM not a war zone..... For all you audio knowledge guru's out there, remember not every Tom, bleep and Harry know what the hell an Ohm, Watt, Bridgeable, Bi-Wired, Trigger, impedance, or what ever else you want to through at the poor person, means.
Some people would just like a nice quality HT system THAT SOUNDS GREAT TO THEM IN THEIR HOME!
So play nice and lets help out the guy that's looking for it!
Polk Rti6 (2) - Fronts Polk Csi3 - Center Polk R150 (2)- Rear Surrounds Emotiva Ultra 12 (2) - Subwoofer Yamaha RX-V661 - AVR Emotiva UPA-5 Sony KDL 40V2500 - Display Sony DVP-NS700H DVD Player
Re: What to look for in a sub « Reply #37 on Jan 25, 2010, 5:12pm »
It's not all about how low it goes. It's how accurate it is. It also depends what you're looking to use the sub for. If it's just music, then it should be nice tight, punchy, accurate bass. If it's for HT, the lower the better, but it should also be able to produce tight punchy bass as well. Sometimes it can be hard to find a sub that does everything well, and not break the bank. Also, the size of the driver is not always the most important thing either. It's the quality of the driver, amp and the size of the cabinet. There are many 12's that can outperform 15's and 18's and vice versa.
Joined: May 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 175 Location: Puerto Rico
Re: What to look for in a sub « Reply #38 on Jan 25, 2010, 5:16pm »
Since I'm considering Rythmik too, i come up with another question. My house has tile floor instead of carpet and the sub will be located in a corner; DOWNFIRING still a good choice?
Dont know too much about the technical aspect, what are some key features to look for? I am looking for a fairly small to medium room but eventually will add an additional sub. I am interested in the Ultra 10 for sure, does that look like a good buy for features vs price? Also is there an advantage to sealed vs ported?
To make it short, the things I look for in a sub is a sealed DOWNFIRING design, with an EFFICIENT sub driver and a good flexible plate amp.
Keys:
A. Sealed design: Smoother and more linear bass response with a lower potential to clip/distort due to the sealed acoustic suspension.
B. Downfiring sub: When a sub is compression loaded directly into the floor it tends to flatten and extend the bass frequency lower
C. Efficiency: This is a big one. Just because a subwoofer has a big 1000watt class D amp, does not mean its going to play louder or sound better. Many of the subs on the market need big honkin amps just to move the driver due to the huge magnet structure and large voicecoil(which equates to a larger voicecoil gap)assembly. Do not be fooled by power ratings either as many times the power #'s are given at high distortion levels of 10% or greater.
D. Flexibility of the plate amp. A good subwoofer plate amp at the very least should have a VARIABLE 0-180 phase control and a VARIABLE xover control (40hz-80hz minimum). The better ones will have selectable slope( 12/24db) and even one or more bands of parametric EQ functions to eliminate room modes. The best sounding subs I have heard use a true Class A/B amps(Revel and Rythmik are 2 of them). Most sub plate amps though or the class D variety though due to cost of mfg. and size and efficiency(you can pack a larger Class D amp into a smaller space).
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). And alot of it is still very generalized. Things like common testing practices like testing speakers sensitivity at 1khz in an anechoic chamber is something that is almost 100% worthless to a sub. What matters more for testing a sub is the effciency of the driver itself couple with its enclosure to keep it real simple. Again as I originally stated, this is where knowing the subs actual design paramaters coupled with the chambers design and size come into play on how efficient it will be and its needed power requirements.
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