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Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 25, 2010 11:14:54 GMT -5
I will admit, I was not happy to hear that this is considered "minimal" and "normal". The XPA-1's are too much power for my speakers, and I don't really want to buy 3 UPA 1's. I honestly feel like i'm kind of painted into a corner here. 3 x UPA-1s is very nice if you can justify the cost. Or even 2 x UPA-1 and keep the centre on the 5?
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Nov 25, 2010 11:23:38 GMT -5
OK I just tested my xpa3 for cross talk. At first i also nooticed my center speaker moving. Mine is almost 11 feet away from each tower and the comes were moving. I then unhooked the towers and the sub and the movement went away. So now i really cranked it up to +5 and I could hear sound from the center tweeter. So I think your cone movment is from being close to your other speakers and sub. It really takes cranking it up to hear any cross talk. But I also do not have any speaker wire laying by each other and I made my own out of canare 4s11 as you can see in the link in my profile. But there is audible crosstalk at extreme levels. There is no way I could go to +5 with my sub and towers hooked up. And at 0 on my pio elite you can hear no cross talk. Try out what I did and see if it helps. Im sure my cone movement on the center was not cross talk because it was gone when all other speakers unhooked. When they are hooked up i have 6 -7inch subs and an 8" subwoofer all moving at the same time. And that caused alot of movement in my center. But not audible. Hope this helps YOu can see my system in my link. but the speakers are way apart. That is an old pic. You can pm me if you have any questions or ill just follow this thread. ;D
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 25, 2010 12:08:24 GMT -5
OK I just tested my xpa3 for cross talk. At first i also nooticed my center speaker moving. Mine is almost 11 feet away from each tower and the comes were moving. I then unhooked the towers and the sub and the movement went away. So now i really cranked it up to +5 and I could hear sound from the center tweeter. So I think your cone movment is from being close to your other speakers and sub. It really takes cranking it up to hear any cross talk. But I also do not have any speaker wire laying by each other and I made my own out of canare 4s11 as you can see in the link in my profile. But there is audible crosstalk at extreme levels. There is no way I could go to +5 with my sub and towers hooked up. And at 0 on my pio elite you can hear no cross talk. Try out what I did and see if it helps. Im sure my cone movement on the center was not cross talk because it was gone when all other speakers unhooked. When they are hooked up i have 6 -7inch subs and an 8" subwoofer all moving at the same time. And that caused alot of movement in my center. But not audible. Hope this helps YOu can see my system in my link. but the speakers are way apart. That is an old pic. You can pm me if you have any questions or ill just follow this thread. ;D That's interesting. While there may be crosstalk (and I guess according to the laws of physics, based on the amp design, there has to be), my question is whether it is audible or not. At normal listening levels I bet it isn't. Or even if it is, it would be the same sort of issue like when you turn on the amp and you can hear a faint hiss in the tweeters. When you begin playing music you can't hear the hiss anymore. Some might argue that subconsciously the hiss (and the crosstalk) will affect your listening experience. Me, I would say maybe for a minute proportion of the population with extreme golden ears, but for the rest of us with average hearing, if we claim to actually hear any difference it is like claiming we see Waldo when he isn't even on the page anywhere. ;D
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Post by briank on Nov 25, 2010 12:17:56 GMT -5
. . . or those of us with furry ears :-)
no crosstalk here!
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Nov 25, 2010 12:26:55 GMT -5
OK I just tested my xpa3 for cross talk. At first i also nooticed my center speaker moving. Mine is almost 11 feet away from each tower and the comes were moving. I then unhooked the towers and the sub and the movement went away. So now i really cranked it up to +5 and I could hear sound from the center tweeter. So I think your cone movment is from being close to your other speakers and sub. It really takes cranking it up to hear any cross talk. But I also do not have any speaker wire laying by each other and I made my own out of canare 4s11 as you can see in the link in my profile. But there is audible crosstalk at extreme levels. There is no way I could go to +5 with my sub and towers hooked up. And at 0 on my pio elite you can hear no cross talk. Try out what I did and see if it helps. Im sure my cone movement on the center was not cross talk because it was gone when all other speakers unhooked. When they are hooked up i have 6 -7inch subs and an 8" subwoofer all moving at the same time. And that caused alot of movement in my center. But not audible. Hope this helps YOu can see my system in my link. but the speakers are way apart. That is an old pic. You can pm me if you have any questions or ill just follow this thread. ;D That's interesting. While there may be crosstalk (and I guess according to the laws of physics, based on the amp design, there has to be), my question is whether it is audible or not. At normal listening levels I bet it isn't. Or even if it is, it would be the same sort of issue like when you turn on the amp and you can hear a faint hiss in the tweeters. When you begin playing music you can't hear the hiss anymore. Some might argue that subconsciously the hiss (and the crosstalk) will affect your listening experience. Me, I would say maybe for a minute proportion of the population with extreme golden ears, but for the rest of us with average hearing, if we claim to actually hear any difference it is like claiming we see Waldo when he isn't even on the page anywhere. ;D The cross talk is so slight no one could hear it. I mean I had the pio elite cranked to +5. If my towers and sub were on i would have been over 110+ spl easily. There is no way anyone could have heard the slight sound coming out of the center tweeter because I could only hear it with my ear up to it at that volume with no speakers running. As for hiss...my system is dead quiet. Zero hiss. Now I had tons of hiss when running an Harmon Kardon reciever to the amp. I will never buy HK stuff again. compared to the elite the HK was garbage. It was really surprising how much my center drivers were moving with all my speakers on. But no sound coming out of them.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 25, 2010 12:54:52 GMT -5
Many never notice crosstalk because under normal use only very efficient speakers will reveal it but there are always exceptions. I have found that the processors and/or analog outputs in many AVR also cause this issue by sending soft audio through unused speakers. I have seen this with full monoblock systems so it isn't always amp related. Yep, this is spot on right.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 25, 2010 13:36:33 GMT -5
re: crosstalk. As Henry Kloss once said, not everything that can be measured can be heard. Or, I refer you to my sig line quote by my friend Kevin...
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Nov 25, 2010 13:56:32 GMT -5
I have an XPA-5 that I used for 2-channel listening before I got my XPA-2. To minimize cross talk I ran my L/R channels at the ends of the amp (channels 1 and 5; per the markings in the back). Could it be that crosstalk is more apparent if you're using back to back (i.e. channesl 1 and 2) channels? Just a thought as electrical engineering is not my forte.
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Post by niceguyedy on Nov 25, 2010 21:00:20 GMT -5
Alright, I ran my final tests. I unhooked the negative wire are both tower speakers, and shut the sub off. The verdict is, MINIMAL crosstalk. Only becomes audible at 0 and above on the Pioneer Elite. Even then, it's only heard through the tweeters. But it is in the center and the surrounds. So, I can live with this, as the crosstalk is minimal. Bob, it must have been the towers close to the center, and when I shut the sub off, it did calm it down quite a bit. Animo, these subs truly are monsters. So, I am once again a happy Emotiva customer. However, I still want mono blocks for the front, or an XPA2. Thank you everyone for your suggestions, and I feel that what we accomplished here was more helpful than the Emo support. Thank you everyone!
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 26, 2010 3:46:59 GMT -5
Alright, I ran my final tests. I unhooked the negative wire are both tower speakers, and shut the sub off. The verdict is, MINIMAL crosstalk. Only becomes audible at 0 and above on the Pioneer Elite. Even then, it's only heard through the tweeters. But it is in the center and the surrounds. So, I can live with this, as the crosstalk is minimal. Bob, it must have been the towers close to the center, and when I shut the sub off, it did calm it down quite a bit.Animo, these subs truly are monsters. So, I am once again a happy Emotiva customer. However, I still want mono blocks for the front, or an XPA2. Thank you everyone for your suggestions, and I feel that what we accomplished here was more helpful than the Emo support. Thank you everyone! Of course the cones of your Center speaker are moving when you have loudspeakers nearby and Subwoofers playing, it is absolutely NORMAL! It is simple physic. It happens in my own main setup (I got two big loudspeakers at about 4 feet on each side of my Center speaker, and two 15" Subwoofers on each side too at about 6 feet from it). What do you expect? It's true man! As for Crosstalk (Channel Separation), use the two extreme opposite channels in the back of your XPA-5 to connect your two front mains for best Crosstalk possible. ...And the two next opposites for your two surround speakers. ...And last, well, ...
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 26, 2010 9:38:49 GMT -5
As for Crosstalk (Channel Separation), use the two extreme opposite channels in the back of your XPA-5 to connect your two front mains for best Crosstalk possible. ...And the two next opposites for your two surround speakers. ...And last, well, ... Actually whether you use 2 adjacent channels or the channels on the outside ends its makes no difference in the amplitude of the crosstalk. Its the same regardless.
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Post by ocezam on Nov 26, 2010 10:57:31 GMT -5
IMHO here is the bottom line...
All multichannel amps have some amount of cross talk. It is usually negligible, inaudible, and frankly not worth mentioning. In the case of Emotiva, their amps are as quiet as others, and when measured in reviews prove to be VERY quiet.
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Post by thomasd92 on Nov 26, 2010 11:45:08 GMT -5
After reading this thread I went and turned on my USP-1 and ERC-1 and turned the volume up till I was at 98 to 102 db with my sound meter. My center channel was silent and there was no movement of the cones. I put my ear right up to the cones. If I have any cross talk it is minimal. I have the fronts on the outside and the center hook up to the center on my XPA-5.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 26, 2010 11:49:20 GMT -5
After reading this thread I went and turned on my USP-1 and ERC-1 and turned the volume up till I was at 98 to 102 db with my sound meter. My center channel was silent and there was no movement of the cones. I put my ear right up to the cones. If I have any cross talk it is minimal. I have the fronts on the outside and the center hook up to the center on my XPA-5. It will probably be different for various people depending on the speakers run. Like in my case, I had inefficient magnepan speakers running a pair of channels and a set of Kefs running on the other channels. When I turned up the volume on the magnepan to a resoanble normal volume, the Kefs were singing pretty bad.
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