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Post by hcsunshine90 on Mar 24, 2015 18:26:31 GMT -5
I believe in break-in period. The bass response & detail improve after approximately 50 to 60 hrs of use. yeah, my UPA-1's took a few hours to get their full bass. (they had hardly any when i first fired them up.) if this isn't burn in then i don't know what is...really like night and day so it was not my imagination.
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Post by Jim on Mar 24, 2015 19:06:54 GMT -5
LOL. The original poster hasn't been online since September 27, 2011.
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 24, 2015 19:07:51 GMT -5
I believe in break-in period. The bass response & detail improve after approximately 50 to 60 hrs of use. yeah, my UPA-1's took a few hours to get their full bass. (they had hardly any when i first fired them up.) if this isn't burn in then i don't know what is...really like night and day so it was not my imagination. I've heard of that experience a few times before, especially with amplifiers that have even quality mid range and highs reproduction. If they are clear and concise, accurate, not accentuated but not suppressed, then we will "hear" them more than otherwise. Our attention is drawn to them and hence away from the bass. More likely though is the better mids and highs means less volume is required to hear them, so we control the volume to get them to the loudness level that we are accustomed to. It's generally not a conscious decision, music is mostly dominated, content wise, by mids and as a result that's how we determine our volume levels. Lower frequencies need more watts and so are more affected by changes in the volume control. Simply, turn down the mids by 1 db and we might see a 2 or 3 db reduction in the lows. You could be experiencing both, but it's usually more of the second than the first. That's why you will find the experienced guys, when they read comparisons, always ask "was the volume exactly the same"? It needs to be, because + or - 1 db overall can make a lot of difference, especially to the bass. Cheers Gary
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 24, 2015 20:08:24 GMT -5
LOL. The original poster hasn't been online since September 27, 2011. He's made a vow not to post or even come back until his amp is broken in.
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Post by leonski on Mar 25, 2015 2:13:03 GMT -5
In Photography, when you have a new high-power flash, you must 'form' the capacitors. What I'm talking about are the large 'shoe' mount units with their own power supply. Stereo is the SAME in regards to capacitors. Larger electrolytics need SOME time to break in. Typically 10s of hours, at most. My speakers exhibitied this phenom when new. The 'image' would wander back and forth while sometimes even cutting out for a second. I thought something was WRONG with them, but it 'fixed' itself in just a short time.
As for those who thing break-in takes 100s of hours? I think it is YOU getting used to the SOUND not the sound changing. Otherwise why does break-in almost ALWAYS result in sound getting better?
I tend to believe people who DO hear some changes in the first 20 hours of new use. And Yes, level matching is critical in comparisons. But don't forget the 50:50 power point for NORMAL (whatever that is) music is about 350hz. Equal power above and below that frequency. At some point in lower frequency, power needed actually drops. There is very little MUSICAL content below maybe 40 to 50 hz.
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 25, 2015 9:24:35 GMT -5
Just for fun, I would like to see everyone participating in this discussion go back to the instruction manual of their particular amplifier. Then cut and paste the section on amplifier break in and post it here so we can compare ALL the details the manufacturer specifies.
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 25, 2015 9:26:48 GMT -5
Just for fun, I would like to see everyone participating in this discussion go back to the instruction manual of their particular amplifier. Then cut and paste the section on amplifier break in and post it here so we can compare ALL the details the manufacturer specifies. Okay, I'll go first:
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Post by MusicHead on Mar 25, 2015 10:04:20 GMT -5
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 25, 2015 10:47:17 GMT -5
Yea....too funny.
Which manufacturer did that page come from?
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Post by Kent on Mar 25, 2015 23:31:32 GMT -5
I have experienced "break in" with amplifiers. Most recent was that my XPR-1's sounded constrained or muddy until they had some hours on them. In fact another member posted his were the same way at first so with that in mind and past experience I hoped for a positive transformation.
Thankfully the sound improved substantially after several hours. Quite honestly before they had some time on them I was disappointed.
However, all is good and I've been loving them in my system!
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Post by luvtubes on Mar 26, 2015 9:45:48 GMT -5
My Pass Labs X1 and Xono both sound horrible(as in unlistenable) for about 4 to 5 hours if they have been unplugged. Their break-in period was in the 200 hour range, and yes, the difference was real and not perceived or imagined.
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 26, 2015 10:11:37 GMT -5
All that time money and effort.....only to kick back and hope the sound would get better some day?
Wow.....too bad you guys didn't get into the 21st century in the first place and just get a top quality solid state amp.
Mine has given me perfect amplification from Jan. 2001 until this minute with no issues. No change in sound, because the amp. does not alter the sound if it's doing its job correctly, only amplifies the signal.
Room acoustics...yes. Carpet yes. Dimensions and room treatments. yes....and the list goes on and on. Amp...no excluding things like sensitivity and power, etc.
Don't take it to heart and of course, a competent tube amplifier can amplify just as well as it's solid state counterpart. Also, I do understand the coloration of sound, that is a consequence of tube amplification is pleasing to some, which is what really makes tube nuts out of so many enthusiasts. Engineers such as Bob Carver many years ago identified that in the process and have actually incorporated as an "option" into some solid state products for the best of both worlds. My own Sunfire Signature amp. is an example of this, having a line or "current source" connection available to attain that sound. I don't use it (I've stuck with line source) but it's there nevertheless.
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Post by brand on Mar 26, 2015 10:31:23 GMT -5
My Pass Labs X1 and Xono both sound horrible(as in unlistenable) for about 4 to 5 hours if they have been unplugged. Their break-in period was in the 200 hour range, and yes, the difference was real and not perceived or imagined. And how do you know the difference was real and not perceived? Did you measure something, did you double blind test? If not then the difference is exactly what you claim it not to be: perceived. Doesn't mean it isn't actually real of course it's just stating something is real doesn't make it so. Edit: Also I find your statement of a Pass Labs X1 having completely horrible and even unlistenable sound (out of the box/after being unplugged) slightly ridiculous especially with your claim of it changing after 4-5 hours (changing to what? mediocre sound? or does it go from unlistenable to amazing in 5 hours?).
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Post by Kent on Mar 26, 2015 12:18:47 GMT -5
Hello Brand,
Respectfully I know exactly what luvtubes means. I take it you haven't experienced this before? However, that doesn't mean it isn't true. The difference is audible and not perceived. I've noticed this with all my systems over the years. Measurements do not always correlate to the sound quality and you do not have to do a double blind test to hear a difference (better or worse) between components.
I believe what he means by horrible sound is the fact they don't sound right until warmed up. Again when my XPR-1's were first playing in my system they too sounded bad until they got some hours on them.
Kent
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Post by Poodleluvr on Mar 26, 2015 12:33:49 GMT -5
I have previously found numerous arguments or opinions to support both sides of the coin.... And, opinions are like a-holes, everybody has one. The point is, I respect the opinion of others, whatever that opinion may be... I personally burn-in my new Emotiva gear, including amplifiers, but do so from a reliability standpoint. During my trial period, I pretty much run them 24/7, although I do cycle them on and off. I do this to potentially weed out a component failure of which I hope that if there is any malfunction, I find it during my 30-day trial period, so Emotiva will hopefully send me a brand new replacement, plus generate me a prepaid RMA, without me having to return faulty gear on my dime. luvtubes, owner of Pass Labs X1: passlabs.com/technology/questions/Questions Amplifiers What is the difference between the XA.5 and the X.5 amplifiers? The XA.5 amps are Class A (low rail voltage and high bias current) and the X.5 amps are high bias AB (high rail voltage and lower bias current). What does the meter do? The meters reflect current draw (bias). How hot do the amps run? About 25 deg centigrade above ambient. If your room is warm the amps will run hot, if your room is cool the amp will run cooler. On average they run around 50 deg centigrade - hot to the touch but not hot enough to burn or cause any harm. Do the amps need to break in? Yes. Most improvement comes in the first 24-36 hours, after which the amps will continue to improve as long as they are left on. Why Class A? Because it sounds better - pure and simple. Why Class AB? More power - less heat.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
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Post by novisnick on Mar 26, 2015 12:52:12 GMT -5
Hello Brand, Respectfully I know exactly what luvtubes means. I take it you haven't experienced this before? However, that doesn't mean it isn't true. The difference is audible and not perceived. I've noticed this with all my systems over the years. Measurements do not always correlate to the sound quality and you do not have to do a double blind test to hear a difference (better or worse) between components. I believe what he means by horrible sound is the fact they don't sound right until warmed up. Again when my XPR-1's were first playing in my system they too sounded bad until they got some hours on them. Kent Hi Kent, Id like to chime in about your experience with the XPR-1s, I don't have a tin ear and I've never experienced the harshness that you had with your amps. It may have been with you or it may have been the room but as for my experience, harshness does not apply.
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 26, 2015 12:56:48 GMT -5
"I personally burn-in my new Emotiva gear, including amplifiers, but do so from a reliability standpoint. During my trial period, I pretty much run them 24/7, although I do cycle them on and off. I do this to potentially weed out a component failure of which I hope that if there is any malfunction, I find it during my 30-day trial period, so Emotiva will hopefully send me a brand new replacement, without me having to return faulty gear on my dime." This is a good thing to do. Perhaps a bit longer than should be necessary, but fine nevertheless.
It should weed out a premature circuit failure or internal component. I doubt any manufacturer would bench test anything for that long a time, rather just leave it at that point to the warranty department.
My last preamp was a bit touchy with certain functions and one day after the warranty was long gone, I opened it up and found several ribbon connectors that were on the verge of coming off. (including the internal power supply plug.) Must have had a rough ride with whichever carrier delivered it to the store I got if from (shipped from CA. to NY.)
One of the things that made me happy about my XMC-1 was the presence of locking ribbon connectors instead of the press in only type. Even so, when I got the thing I was TEMPTED to open her up just to see how well it did getting here from Franklin. Well.......I didn't!
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Post by creimes on Mar 26, 2015 13:08:39 GMT -5
My 8 gallon compressor stated right in the manual to open the air valve and let the compressor run for 30 mins for a break in time, before i did the break in I was achieving 131psi and after the 30 minute break in I can now achieve 135psi . I'm joking of course I did not do any actual psi tests but the manual did state to do the 30 minute break in which of course I did
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Post by Kent on Mar 26, 2015 13:09:21 GMT -5
Hello novisnick, It's not a room thing or me:) My system is in the same room and position. My XPR-1's were not harsh when they arrived, quite the opposite in fact. They sounded flat or muddy. It was quite obvious. Lacking clarity, focus and extension in both the highs and lows. Like I said I know from experience that this would likely change with some hours on them. For the first while I thought I made a mistake! But as you know from our communications I do love them and recommend them?
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 26, 2015 14:55:25 GMT -5
My 8 gallon compressor stated right in the manual to open the air valve and let the compressor run for 30 mins for a break in time, before i did the break in I was achieving 131psi and after the 30 minute break in I can now achieve 135psi . I'm joking of course I did not do any actual psi tests but the manual did state to do the 30 minute break in which of course I did I put new rings on the pistons in my compressor, three cylinder style, and at initial start up it didn't even reach the cylinder full shut off pressure of 80 psi. It took about 15 to 20 minutes till the rings bedded in before it was pumping as it should. Hardly unusual, see it in race engines all the time, start them up and they take 10 to 15 minutes before they stop smoking, most of which is assembly lubricant of course. Do a leak down test and they will show around 85%, run them on the dyno at varying loads for another 10 or 15 minutes and they will show 98% on leak down. I'm not joking, we do psi tests all time Cheers Gary
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