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Post by creimes on Mar 26, 2015 15:16:19 GMT -5
My 8 gallon compressor stated right in the manual to open the air valve and let the compressor run for 30 mins for a break in time, before i did the break in I was achieving 131psi and after the 30 minute break in I can now achieve 135psi . I'm joking of course I did not do any actual psi tests but the manual did state to do the 30 minute break in which of course I did I put new rings on the pistons in my compressor, three cylinder style, and at initial start up it didn't even reach the cylinder full shut off pressure of 80 psi. It took about 15 to 20 minutes till the rings bedded in before it was pumping as it should. Hardly unusual, see it in race engines all the time, start them up and they take 10 to 15 minutes before they stop smoking, most of which is assembly lubricant of course. Do a leak down test and they will show around 85%, run them on the dyno at varying loads for another 10 or 15 minutes and they will show 98% on leak down. I'm not joking, we do psi tests all time Cheers Gary Now I'm pissed off I didn't do pressure tests before and after hahaha, I actually forgot about it and it ran about 50 mins instead of the 30 mins so it might even perform better now
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 26, 2015 15:42:53 GMT -5
I've been under too much pressure, so I sold my compressor...........
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 26, 2015 16:46:51 GMT -5
I've been under too much pressure, so I sold my compressor........... How much did you get for her Cheers Gary
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 26, 2015 19:33:20 GMT -5
I've been under too much pressure, so I sold my compressor........... How much did you get for her Cheers Gary 32 pounds.....don't know what that is in dollars
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Post by luvtubes on Mar 26, 2015 21:33:51 GMT -5
My Pass Labs X1 and Xono both sound horrible(as in unlistenable) for about 4 to 5 hours if they have been unplugged. Their break-in period was in the 200 hour range, and yes, the difference was real and not perceived or imagined. And how do you know the difference was real and not perceived? Did you measure something, did you double blind test? If not then the difference is exactly what you claim it not to be: perceived. Doesn't mean it isn't actually real of course it's just stating something is real doesn't make it so. Edit: Also I find your statement of a Pass Labs X1 having completely horrible and even unlistenable sound (out of the box/after being unplugged) slightly ridiculous especially with your claim of it changing after 4-5 hours (changing to what? mediocre sound? or does it go from unlistenable to amazing in 5 hours?). I would not have believed it either, had I not experienced it myself. There is a reason Pass does not put an on/off switch on their gear. I was using a well regarded Dodd Audio MLP tube pre before the switch to the X1 and as soon as I plugged the Pass in, I was shocked by how bad it was. I left the house, with music playing on repeat while I went to work, so I was NOT even in the room to become accustomed to what I was hearing, and when I came home, my system sounded as if there were live performers in the room when I opened the door. I find it amazing how easy it is to discount someone else's first-hand personal experience just because you have a differing opinion about gear you have no direct, hands-on knowlege with. Forgive me for trusting real-world experience over uneducated (meaning you have zero experience with a Pass Labs preamp) opinion.
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Post by Jim on Mar 26, 2015 21:39:14 GMT -5
Pass doesn't include a switch because if they did, it would probably add $1000 to the cost.
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Post by luvtubes on Mar 26, 2015 21:45:54 GMT -5
Pass doesn't include a switch because if they did, it would probably add $1000 to the cost. LMAO! I got a smoking deal on mine from the good folks at Audiogon, or I would still be using the Dodd MLP. The difference really is shocking when you make the move up to gear like this.
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Post by plm on Mar 26, 2015 22:11:58 GMT -5
Capacitors are chemical devices, in a not dissimilar way that batteries are, and I think we can all accept that the properties of a battery change with use. We also know that electrolytic caps dry out over years and ultimately need to be replaced, particularly if they are more regularly power-cycled, which shows that repeated application of voltage has an effect on their electrical properties.
Electrolytics are quick-formed at the factory, but you can measurably reduce leakage current from them by slow-forming them with gradually ramped up voltages, applied via a current-limiting resistor. This can be tested and measured. Ergo, if the caps have never seen any action in the amp then it is plausible that the parameters could change enough for it to be audible.
That would cover some possible change in the power supply behaviour, but there are also film caps in the signal which, again, could slightly change behaviour as they have a bias voltage first applied.
This should be pretty negligable, but it is indicative of one aspect of a solid state amp that could very reasonably see a change for perfectly sound reasons, without getting into some of the conjecture that non-engineer 'audiophiles' (in inverted commas) like to spout.
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 26, 2015 22:28:48 GMT -5
LOL. The original poster hasn't been online since September 27, 2011. He's made a vow not to post or even come back until his amp is broken in. LOL!
I didn't notice the date myself when I started jumping in on this puppy!
I pray this thread dies........or at least gets a new capacitor first
Amp broken in yet?? 4 years should do the trick.
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Post by brand on Mar 27, 2015 9:19:31 GMT -5
Hello Brand, Respectfully I know exactly what luvtubes means. I take it you haven't experienced this before? However, that doesn't mean it isn't true. The difference is audible and not perceived. I've noticed this with all my systems over the years. Measurements do not always correlate to the sound quality and you do not have to do a double blind test to hear a difference (better or worse) between components. I believe what he means by horrible sound is the fact they don't sound right until warmed up. Again when my XPR-1's were first playing in my system they too sounded bad until they got some hours on them. Kent Hi Kent No I haven't experienced (to that extent) what he describes before and nobody has been able to show me in person (not talking about anything tube related). I've experienced things changing but no I haven't experienced products doing a full 180 in sound over the period of 4-5 hours. So yes you're right maybe this was just a miscommunication but as you know the audio community is filled with people claiming things (I don't have a problem with that) but it's almost always in a very extreme way. It's always "night and day, tremendous, incredible etc" which I have a very hard time believing. There's not much to measure in this case and of course you don't have to have a double blind test but don't specifically tell me that what you heard was NOT perceived but ACTUALLY real. Based on what? Your perception?
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Post by brand on Mar 27, 2015 9:30:33 GMT -5
And how do you know the difference was real and not perceived? Did you measure something, did you double blind test? If not then the difference is exactly what you claim it not to be: perceived. Doesn't mean it isn't actually real of course it's just stating something is real doesn't make it so. Edit: Also I find your statement of a Pass Labs X1 having completely horrible and even unlistenable sound (out of the box/after being unplugged) slightly ridiculous especially with your claim of it changing after 4-5 hours (changing to what? mediocre sound? or does it go from unlistenable to amazing in 5 hours?). I would not have believed it either, had I not experienced it myself. There is a reason Pass does not put an on/off switch on their gear. I was using a well regarded Dodd Audio MLP tube pre before the switch to the X1 and as soon as I plugged the Pass in, I was shocked by how bad it was. I left the house, with music playing on repeat while I went to work, so I was NOT even in the room to become accustomed to what I was hearing, and when I came home, my system sounded as if there were live performers in the room when I opened the door. I find it amazing how easy it is to discount someone else's first-hand personal experience just because you have a differing opinion about gear you have no direct, hands-on knowlege with. Forgive me for trusting real-world experience over uneducated (meaning you have zero experience with a Pass Labs preamp) opinion. I did not say that your claims are complete bs I was just irritated by the way you specifically mentioned that everything is actually the way you say it is. As for the second comment. Where did you get the info about my personal experience with gear that is out of my price range? Did you consider the fact that I'm good friends with the guy that runs my local HiFi store that deals Pass Labs and Classé amongst others? I don't know how much more real world you can get than being able to use a demo room whenever you want with whatever gear you want. I could go on but I'm really not interested in this pissing contest my friend. Like I wrote above. I believe you when you say you heard a difference. I don't believe it was to the extent you claim it was (people exaggerating online is a thing) which is what led me to comment in the first place. End of story
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Post by deltadube on Mar 27, 2015 10:43:23 GMT -5
Many feel there is a benefit in letting an amp "burn in" for 20-40 hours or more. There has been some things written about the copper traces on the circuit boards "ferment" a bit over time... ferment lol
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Post by Kent on Mar 27, 2015 11:20:33 GMT -5
Brand,
Again respectfully:) The improvement was not perceived. It wasn't a subtle difference or difficult to hear it didn't sound right fresh out of the box. Why this was the case I'm not sure? If my amps sounded the way they did at first I would have sold them. Not everything is perceived you know. Why would we bother upgrading components if there wasn't a real difference is sound?
I see you have a XMC-1 in your system. I'll bet if you swapped it for a UMC-1 you would notice a real sonic difference and not just perceive one?
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Post by leonski on Mar 27, 2015 11:38:43 GMT -5
AMPS can change sound over a few hours for ANOTHER reason. Transistors do, or rather Can, 'warm up'. Characteristics change which changes the sound. Designers who actually LISTEN to the gear they design take this into account. It is generally NOT a predictable thing, bur rather a product of listening tests and Experience. Designers like Curl and Pass have tens of thousands of hours in their chosen field. I know it's a long time ago, but one amp FAMOUS for this was the original Phase Linear 400 which was notorious for sounding best when warmed. I don't remember Which transistor, but it was eventually laid at the feet of a certain part of the circuit. Phase Linear was founded by non-other than Bob Carver.
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Post by luvtubes on Mar 27, 2015 12:07:09 GMT -5
AMPS can change sound over a few hours for ANOTHER reason. Transistors do, or rather Can, 'warm up'. Characteristics change which changes the sound. Designers who actually LISTEN to the gear they design take this into account. It is generally NOT a predictable thing, bur rather a product of listening tests and Experience. Designers like Curl and Pass have tens of thousands of hours in their chosen field. I know it's a long time ago, but one amp FAMOUS for this was the original Phase Linear 400 which was notorious for sounding best when warmed. I don't remember Which transistor, but it was eventually laid at the feet of a certain part of the circuit. Phase Linear was founded by non-other than Bob Carver. Thanks for pointing that out... I think everybody can accept that tube gear tends to sound better after a break-in period, and warm up. I also know that most electronic gear tends to at the very least, warm up slightly to the touch, so why is it so hard to accept that capacitors and resistors can sound better when warmed up? Just because we cannot see the glow of electrons within their envelopes like we can with a tube, does not mean they are not warming things up inside the device.
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 27, 2015 13:07:08 GMT -5
"one amp FAMOUS for this was the original Phase Linear 400 which was notorious for sounding best when warmed."
For eleven years, I ran the Phase Linear 400 in my system and NEVER noticed a difference from cold or warmed up. The system always sounded great with that amp.
What they WERE notorious for was blowing up. I considered myself very lucky to have such a long run with mine before it finally did that. (Meters pinned all the way into unchartered territory.) Hence the nickname Blaze Linear.
By comparison, Carvers "Magnetic Field" power amps were near bullet proof by comparison. Those I ran for 13 years and they were problem free the whole time. Sold them off 14 years later for 350 each.
Bill
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Post by deltadube on Mar 27, 2015 13:21:41 GMT -5
"one amp FAMOUS for this was the original Phase Linear 400 which was notorious for sounding best when warmed."
For eleven years, I ran the Phase Linear 400 in my system and NEVER noticed a difference from cold or warmed up. The system always sounded great with that amp.
What they WERE notorious for was blowing up. I considered myself very lucky to have such a long run with mine before it finally did that. (Meters pinned all the way into unchartered territory.) Hence the nickname Blaze Linear.
By comparison, Carvers "Magnetic Field" power amps were near bullet proof by comparison. Those I ran for 13 years and they were problem free the whole time. Sold them off 14 years later for 350 each.
Bill
how long will my emo amps last? hoping a long long time... cheers
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Post by leonski on Mar 27, 2015 13:23:02 GMT -5
I remember them being called 'flame linear', but not important. What might be a little important is the amp STILL has a following and you can get ALL the parts needed to 'fix' it and have it NOT ever run away again.
I had an M400t since new until maybe 8 years ago. I moved up the food chain a little, made a mistake with a Rotel RB1070 and ended up with Parasound. I LIKED my Carver amp. It always ran pretty cool, sounded nice and is one of the FEW amps I've ever heard of that responded well to a power conditioner.
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 27, 2015 13:30:02 GMT -5
how long will my emo amps last? hoping a long long time... cheers Forever.......of course!
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 27, 2015 13:41:53 GMT -5
I remember them being called 'flame linear', but not important. What might be a little important is the amp STILL has a following and you can get ALL the parts needed to 'fix' it and have it NOT ever run away again. I had an M400t since new until maybe 8 years ago. I moved up the food chain a little, made a mistake with a Rotel RB1070 and ended up with Parasound. . Yea I've heard "Flame" and "Blaze". Always liked blaze better 'cause it rhymes with Phase!
I know it has a following still....and my heart goes out to anyone who would throw good money after bad and live with that dinosaur. I mean for the money in the 21st century, you can do WAY better. I have seen the Phase mod. (A waste)
Agreed you were better off with a Parasound.
"I LIKED my Carver amp. It always ran pretty cool, sounded nice and is one of the FEW amps I've ever heard of that responded well to a power conditioner"
Responded to a power condition?? Oh boy here we go again (just when I was enjoying myself) What do you mean when you say the Carver "responded well" to a power conditioner??
What is your "list" of amplifiers that don't respond well to "power conditioners"? (if you please)
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