stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jul 2, 2011 22:01:11 GMT -5
If you're not careful, you'll learn something new each day. ;D
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jul 3, 2011 10:29:23 GMT -5
I am going to beat this dead horse one more time for good measure. I gather from your piece that you are agreeing with my statement that; a cable in and of it self, cannot improve a signal. It can only do 1 or both of 2 things: Transmit the signal unaltered, or degrades it. Cables along with repeaters and signal amplifiers can help to transmit digital signal over long cable runs. However, they do not improve upon the original signal. Yes, a properly working cable replaced by a more expensive cable will not improve anything. However, I'll bet there are many sub standard cables in use now that swapping them will improve the picture. This is really my point. Degradation is not always an all or nothing affair. If the HDMI spec included error correction, this would be a moot point. (but would also add another layer of complexity to cause havoc with compatibility issues)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2011 10:35:36 GMT -5
Being without error correction results in it being even more certain that pq/sq will be an either all or nothing affair. At least that is the extent of my knowledge.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jul 3, 2011 11:06:41 GMT -5
Being without error correction results in it being even more certain that pq/sq will be an either all or nothing affair. At least that is the extent of my knowledge. Not really. Some data can be missing and a picture would still appear. Macroblocking is an example of this. Mind you, keeping overall signal length under 10M (notice I didn't say cables) with HDMI greatly reduces the chances of this.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jul 3, 2011 11:21:03 GMT -5
Correct: drop a bit/byte/packet and you drop a pixel (or several) but not the hole picture (logic of the receiving device notwithstanding). Picture quality does not change: i.e. sharper or deeper color or the like, only random "dead" pixels increase/decrease.
So, you can improve your PQ from a bunch of frozen or dead pixels to little/none but you can't get redder reds, bluer blues, greener greens, better contrast or a sharper picture. On a pixel by pixel level the signal is either there or it is not. As bootman said, there is no error correction (just error checking).
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 3, 2011 12:09:47 GMT -5
I have my new 8m Emotiva cable arriving tomorrow, so I will be very interested to see if this makes any difference to the UMC-1 processed image. Glad it will be here as neither the PS3 nor the TV box will work over component due to that blasted HDCP nonsense. I've had to resort to d/ling MotoGP instead of watching the recording from the cable box, bah!
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jul 3, 2011 12:38:18 GMT -5
My main complaint of HDMI is the connector. If you find a cheap cable that fits snug on one gear, I'll bet the same cable will be loose (or will be hard to fit) on another. QC is all over the place.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 3, 2011 13:41:01 GMT -5
The connector is also very weak and prone to damage, especially on larger cables for longer runs.
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iceman66
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Post by iceman66 on Jul 3, 2011 13:42:36 GMT -5
... I've had to resort to d/ling MotoGP instead of watching the recording from the cable box, bah! Hope you watched all 3 fantastic races on the best motorcycle racing track in the world - with all due respect to Phillip Island.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jul 3, 2011 13:45:31 GMT -5
Bootman: The salient, cogent points that you are making about A/V cables, are not the same claims being made by cable manufacturers and the cable subjectivists. Their arguments are that their cables are able to improve upon the signal received by the cable. End result, you get redder reds, bluer blues, better black levels, more picture details, tighter bass, etc., etc. Those are bold face lies as any cable that is not embedded with some sort of DAC and/or signal processing device or circuitry, simply has no such abilities.
It is sheer common sense that a good cable will deliver the signal with no or less degradation than a poorly constructed one. But, in the cable world, this again is not their sales pitch. I currently have a 12' length of a high end Tributaries HDMI cable that I bought from Circuit City out of business sale. It does not work between my UMC-1 and TV. At the sales price, it costs 3 times what I paid for a 12' Emo X-Series HDMI cable that works perfectly. It could be that the Tributaries is bad. But on the package, it even claims to support 120 Hz refresh rates for LCD TVs when that is exclusively a feature built into the TV.
Thank heavens for companies such as Blue Jeans Cable that will speak the truth about cables even at the risk of sales. Because of the cable dishonesty, I will not buy any product with the MC label on it. They are going to hell full tilt.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 3, 2011 13:49:15 GMT -5
... I've had to resort to d/ling MotoGP instead of watching the recording from the cable box, bah! Hope you watched all 3 fantastic races on the best motorcycle racing track in the world - with all due respect to Phillip Island. I've only got the MotoGP one - not 125 or Moto2. I might see if those are available online as the BBC do not show them.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 3, 2011 13:51:14 GMT -5
Tributaries is bad. But on the package, it even claims to support 120 Hz refresh rates for LCD TVs when that is exclusively a feature built into the TV. Actually you need 120Hz input from your source to have 60Hz in each eye for 3D.
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iceman66
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Post by iceman66 on Jul 3, 2011 13:54:20 GMT -5
Hope you watched all 3 fantastic races on the best motorcycle racing track in the world - with all due respect to Phillip Island. I've only got the MotoGP one - not 125 or Moto2. I might see if those are available online as the BBC do not show them. I've got invites available to a couple of racing torrent sites if you are interested.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 3, 2011 16:09:51 GMT -5
Thanks but I don't use torrents.
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reaper60
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Post by reaper60 on Jul 3, 2011 18:57:26 GMT -5
When you are referring to the "best MotoGP track in the world" which one are you referring? I apologize but rarely if ever get any of the races here in the Northeast USA and wish I did. However I do race myself and love every one I catch. My personal favorite every year is of course the Isle of Man TT. Too bad every year some people die during that week.
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iceman66
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Post by iceman66 on Jul 3, 2011 19:40:18 GMT -5
When you are referring to the "best MotoGP track in the world" which one are you referring? I apologize but rarely if ever get any of the races here in the Northeast USA and wish I did. However I do race myself and love every one I catch. My personal favorite every year is of course the Isle of Man TT. Too bad every year some people die during that week. Mugello, Italy
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 4, 2011 2:49:17 GMT -5
It was a really fun race, well worth watching. Back on topic - the Fedex van is on the way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2011 6:34:10 GMT -5
Connectors are the weak link with nearly every consumer cable afaik. Some Neutrik designs (including XLR) deal with this but have their own shortcomings, such as size of the connector being much larger. I particularly hate RCA cables.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 4, 2011 7:43:05 GMT -5
DisplayPort is far superior to HDMI as far as the connector anyway, I wish everyone would move over to it, I believe the licences are cheaper and it also allows daisychaining displays in the latest version. Here's a vote for displayport on the next Emotiva processors (and some HDMI of course for compatibility.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2011 7:49:33 GMT -5
Haven't seen or tried DisplayPort except for the visible connector on the video card. It has to be pretty good to justify ANOTHER cable type. There are too many already. One of the other truly bad one's is ESATA, any weight on the cable at all and it disconnects and you don't want that with a hard disk.
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