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Post by briank on Jul 14, 2011 17:16:33 GMT -5
Personally, I don't think anyone can tell the difference between the U-Series & X-Series cables of lengths up to 25', whether they are the speakers cables or the interconnects, in any situation. The U-Series meets all the requirements for capacitance & shielding, etc., etc. to transmit a very transparent signal over and possibly beyond that distance. The X-Series does the same with a little better shielding and possible AWG size (marketing). As one member signature indicates "You can't make inaudiuble any more inaudible" And likewise, I would say: "You can't make transparent anymore transparent" And the same is absolutely true, whether or not the connectors are made of gold plated conductors, bronze, brass, aluminium or any other conductive material. These only offer better protection, to one degree or another, against how quickly and effective corrosion sets in. To any of you guys with the ability to hear any difference, if you make it to Emofest, why not ask Emo to arrange a double blind listening test? That would teach ya! But I honestly don't think that any such request will be made. Because as history has shown, those who claim to be able to hear differences, are generally not interested in such tests! ;D I'll take you up on a blind test anytime. I've done blind testing in the past. :-) With that said, let's please not make this thread another " cables don't make a difference" thread. Please let us guys that do believe in cables have a discussion about what cables we like. Thanks,
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jul 14, 2011 17:41:45 GMT -5
Sorry to have brought it up. I know better than that lol. The last thing I want is another cable argument. Unless we can remain civil.
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Post by briank on Jul 14, 2011 17:45:59 GMT -5
Sorry to have brought it up. I know better than that lol. The last thing I want is another cable argument. Unless we can remain civil. Yes, and thank you for that Pauly. Also, I'd be glad to put on a cable demo at Emofest, however, I'm not going to ask them as I think it inappropriate to bring in a competing product on our annual "We love Emotiva" party. :-)
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Post by thepcguy on Jul 14, 2011 17:50:30 GMT -5
yes, it's a good idea to conduct BLIND TESTING at Emofest. I'd wager if someone can demonstrate they could tell a difference 100%
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jul 14, 2011 17:53:27 GMT -5
Unless it's some pathetic product that is clearly inferior to the Emo gear, so that we can all drink beer and laugh at it lol. j/k
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Post by thepcguy on Jul 14, 2011 17:54:47 GMT -5
^No, even a 12 gauge Home Depot wire will do.
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Post by briank on Jul 14, 2011 18:00:55 GMT -5
Unless it's some pathetic product that is clearly inferior to the Emo gear, so that we can all drink beer and laugh at it lol. j/k Works for me. :-)
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Post by thepcguy on Jul 14, 2011 18:50:23 GMT -5
Audio Enthusiasts, I've been professionaly evaluating audio equipment in print media for over twenty years. When I asked myself "What can I do that good people like David Clark, Dan Shanefield, John Vanderkooy, Stanley Lipshitz and Floyd Toole weren't already doing?" The answer was to not be afraid to state unpopular things publically. This site is an attempt to share the insights I've gained through evaluations of hundreds of home theater sound systems and over a thousand car audio sound systems. From shopping advice, to tech articles, to cable decisions, I hope to provide you with an array of interesting articles. -Tom Nousaine Wired Wisdomwww.nousaine.com/pdfs/Wired%20Wisdom.pdf
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Post by briank on Jul 14, 2011 19:04:46 GMT -5
Looks like the thread is going in the direction that we kindly asked it not to. I'm outta here. Have fun.
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Post by thepcguy on Jul 14, 2011 19:16:02 GMT -5
If so would you mind sharing your opinions? - OP
briank,
When someone discusses the 'SONIC' capabilities of wires instead of 'BUILD' quality, it will always lead to this direction. If nobody counters your 'opinion', some people might think everybody share your 'opinion' as the truth.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jul 14, 2011 19:36:18 GMT -5
At Emofest, you would be comparing 2 Emo products. What is improper about that? Emo never advertised AFAIK, that their X-Series were superior to their U-Series. They have nothing to worry about. But, like I've stated, Those with the super hearing ability are not willing to demonstrate to us mortals, let alone, allow their hearing to be tested under real situations. What would be demostrated in that or any other test, is that the X-Series would provide more transparency on much longer lengths and better shielding in more adverse (interference) situations.
I don't care if someone likes one product over another. But, when that preference is based on some claimed property, feature or characteristic that cannot be measured and consistently identified 100 out of 100 times under the same condition in a DBT, then that is a different matter altogether.
A good cable will deliver the signal it receives unchanged. A bad cable allows or causes alteration to the signal it receives. A cable has no ability to 'process' signal. GIGO
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Post by roadrunner on Jul 14, 2011 23:06:47 GMT -5
The point that seems to be overlooked is that the difference made by cable choices for speakers is very subtle, even when using extremely high quality gear. It will never be a 100% correct choice in a double blind shoot out. You would only hope for a "statistically significant" advantage.
The physics of why different cable can produce slightly different sound is well understood. The major property difference among a group of similar quality cables is their "inductance". It is easily measureable with lab equipment and based on the measured inductance it is predictable which range of frequencies will be impacted the most. Again, I emphasis that these difference are VERY subtle and are only audible with high quality amplification and speakers.
If I remember correctly, Gene (Audioholics. com) presented a white paper on this very topic on his web site a couple of years ago. He went into great detail discussing multiple properties of cables/wires that potentially impact the sound changes between different cables. It is real and can be heard, under the right conditions. There are better, more effective ways to change sound quality in your systems, but your choice of cable can produce an audible change. If you want to know the "ins and outs" on why and how this works, check out the White Paper on Audioholics web site. It makes for interesting reading.
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Post by briank on Jul 15, 2011 5:42:51 GMT -5
I totally agree with RR that the differences are very subtle when comparing cables made from the same metal for both speaker cables and ic's, with a couple of exceptions however, the difference is more noticeable when you compare a silver cable versus copper or a litz configuration cable to a stranded design. Comparing the Ultra and x-series speaker cable, a lot of people may not notice the difference, but compare one of those to a litz design like the Zu mission cable or a copper-silver hybrid cable like the Zu Libtec and the difference is more obvious. Quality of your electronics and speakers also have an effect on how noticeable the difference is. I've spent a few hundred hours the past two years of comparing over a dozen cables. Reading someone else's opinion that there's no difference in cables is not going to change what I have determined through my own experimenting to be fact. That's why I was irritated last night as it seems impossible to discuss what cables you like and their sound characteristics without ending up defending your position that cables make a difference. I suppose in the future, I should be smarter and avoid the subject of cables and keep my opinions to myself. :-). Then again. . . I'm not that smart. ;D
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jul 15, 2011 15:39:57 GMT -5
There are no subtle differencies that can be brought out of any recording by speaker wires. Inductance has no audible effect on cable size and length that are commonly used in the home. There is always that allegation that there are nuances that only those who believe that cables affect frequency response under normal listening condition, can hear. And, they are so subtle that sometimes you do hear it/them and sometimes you don't. Those are gremlins, not science. The quality of your recording, DACs, analog sections, speaskers and room treatment are what consistently highlights subleties in sound reproduction, and distinguishes truly great systems from the merely good ones. Cables, blah! ;D
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Post by briank on Jul 15, 2011 16:51:05 GMT -5
There are no subtle differencies that can be brought out of any recording by speaker wires. Inductance has no audible effect on cable size and length that are commonly used in the home. There is always that allegation that there are nuances that only those who believe that cables affect frequency response under normal listening condition, can hear. And, they are so subtle that sometimes you do hear it/them and sometimes you don't. Those are gremlins, not science. The quality of your recording, DACs, analog sections, speaskers and room treatment are what consistently highlights subleties in sound reproduction, and distinguishes truly great systems from the merely good ones. Cables, blah! ;D Totally disagree with this entire statement.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jul 15, 2011 18:30:45 GMT -5
Maybe it's just time to agree to disagree? Cable discussions are probably the single most debated topic in audio, yet it is also the most pointless topic. It only leads to frustration.
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Post by briank on Jul 15, 2011 18:34:17 GMT -5
Maybe it's just time to agree to disagree? Cable discussions are probably the single most debated topic in audio, yet it is also the most pointless topic. It only leads to frustration. Very true !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2011 18:38:53 GMT -5
There's nothing subtle about my speaker cables. I lathered BBQ sauce on them and they taste so much better then other speaker cables. Oh... This is about how speaker cables sound better Wrong thread.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jul 15, 2011 18:42:39 GMT -5
I like them in a tasty wine sauce.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2011 18:45:05 GMT -5
I like them in a tasty wine sauce. Make sure to keep the sauce off the connectors. It'll make a big mess ;D
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