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Post by weird23 on Jul 19, 2011 9:15:31 GMT -5
I've been waiting to hear any news about the rumored upgrade of the UPA-1's before going ahead with any more amplifier upgrades for my system. It's been very quiet with no official news announced and I'm not sure how much longer I want to wait or if it's even worth the wait for me. Right now I'm using the Parasound Halo A-23 to help take some of the load off of my AVR and would like to take the next step and not use the internal amps at all anymore. I really like the sound of the Parasound but am not sure I want to shell out the $6k that the A51 is going for in Canada. I've been thinking of going back to the UPA-1's as I've owned them before and did enjoy them, the other option is the XPA-2 XPA-5 combo. I've changed everything in my system except the tv since owning the UPA-1's so I can't really make a fair comparison between the two, it's also been awhile since I've heard an Emo. Has anyone made a direct comparison between Emotiva amps and either the Parasound Classic or Halo amps? I realize that this is an Emotiva forum and they're will be some bias but I'm just looking for some opinions on the subject.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 14:04:22 GMT -5
Parasound has better internals and better specs but I dont know if the performance would be noticable unless you had them side by side and playing at very high levels. Emotiva strikes a great balance of better audio quality without the wallet busting price. The Halo amps are really on a much higher cost level than anything Emo offers and you culd get 3 Xpa 1s for what one of those goes for used.
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Post by eusebio on Jul 20, 2011 14:10:19 GMT -5
i am curious to hear more about this rumored UPA-1 upgrade
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Post by ausman on Jul 20, 2011 14:33:12 GMT -5
I think with parasound you're buying a brand with reliability, more than stated output..
with emotiva you're buying power at realistic prices, not inflated ego's like you do with any other brand that has been active for over 25 years..
I too am interested to hear about the upa-1 upgrade??
I can't see it getting better than what it already is..
as for the upa-2, upa-5 and upa-7 lines, I would say a relaunch with the welcomed inclusion of xlr inputs would be a nice addition.. unless emo is going to start doing rating on 3, 2 and 1 ohms classes on existing amp lines I can't see anything being improved with upa's chassis..
unless you're eluding to the expectant release dates for the xpr line amps, which i can't wait to see..
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Post by slbenz on Jul 20, 2011 14:44:40 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 15:49:34 GMT -5
Thats a great write up of the two amps. I was surprised that you prefered the noise floor on the Emotiva as it has a 32db gain vs the 29db gain on the Parasound. I would also like to know if the XPA-5 is the all time best selling 5x200 amp. It gives you at least 98% of the performance of amps that cost 4 to 5 times the price.
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Post by slbenz on Jul 20, 2011 16:52:01 GMT -5
Thats a great write up of the two amps. I was surprised that you prefered the noise floor on the Emotiva as it has a 32db gain vs the 29db gain on the Parasound. I would also like to know if the XPA-5 is the all time best selling 5x200 amp. It gives you at least 98% of the performance of amps that cost 4 to 5 times the price. Not sure if the XPA-5 is the most popular but I can tell you that over 1900 people has read my review on the XPA-5 in 1.5 years. While my Parasound HCA-1205A review has over 3200 people reading over the course of 9.5 years. Even though the gain is higher on the XPA-5, it has a blacker background than the Parasound I had in my system. And thanks for the compliment on my comparison of the two amps. |
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Post by kappclark on Jul 20, 2011 20:46:04 GMT -5
I picked up a 20+ year old Parasound HCA-500 on ebay for under $100 ... rock solid. Will the UPA-2 be as good in 20 years ?
Maybe
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Post by slbenz on Jul 20, 2011 23:50:11 GMT -5
I picked up a 20+ year old Parasound HCA-500 on ebay for under $100 ... rock solid. Will the UPA-2 be as good in 20 years ? Maybe Well I can tell you when I had my Parasound HCA-1205A, one of the modules went out after nine years of use. Cost me $200 to replace it. It was the module I used for my center channel. Surprised me since I didn't use it as much as the modules for my two-channel listening. That Parasound weighed 47 pounds and my XPA-5 weighs 66 pounds. I'm not sure how long the XPA will last. I just hope as long or longer than my Parasound I had. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 1:40:49 GMT -5
I picked up a 20+ year old Parasound HCA-500 on ebay for under $100 ... rock solid. Will the UPA-2 be as good in 20 years ? Maybe Well, I used to be a math major so I have some possibly appropriate input here. You could buy about 4 or so (approximately) of the comparable Emotiva amps compared to one of the Parasound amps. Given that the Emo amp has a five year warranty I think it is more than fair to assume that the Emo amp will last at least for 7 years (let alone 20 years). So if you buy 4 Emo amps now and use them for 7 years only, then the 4th one you would be opening after 21 years, a brand new amp! Having of course sold the three used Emo amps for good money you would be way ahead. Of course, if you bought only one Emo amp for 1/4 the price you would be money way ahead too, considering that very, very few folks keep an amp for 20 years. ;D ;D ;D PS: OK, so I presume some wise guy will post here that the Parasound amp only costs three time the Emo amp. In that case you are still only on the third Emo amp with one year left. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 6:33:36 GMT -5
Chuckienut I agree with you. It would be different if there was a tangible increase in sound quality with the Parasound, but there isn't.
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Post by skeetlong on Jul 21, 2011 6:48:30 GMT -5
I picked up a 20+ year old Parasound HCA-500 on ebay for under $100 ... rock solid. Will the UPA-2 be as good in 20 years ? Maybe Well, I used to be a math major so I have some possibly appropriate input here. You could buy about 4 or so (approximately) of the comparable Emotiva amps compared to one of the Parasound amps. Given that the Emo amp has a five year warranty I think it is more than fair to assume that the Emo amp will last at least for 7 years (let alone 20 years). So if you buy 4 Emo amps now and use them for 7 years only, then the 4th one you would be opening after 21 years, a brand new amp! Having of course sold the three used Emo amps for good money you would be way ahead. Of course, if you bought only one Emo amp for 1/4 the price you would be money way ahead too, considering that very, very few folks keep an amp for 20 years. ;D ;D ;D PS: OK, so I presume some wise guy will post here that the Parasound amp only costs three time the Emo amp. In that case you are still only on the third Emo amp with one year left. ;D ;D ;D .nice...lol..but soo..true..lol ;D |
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Post by weird23 on Jul 21, 2011 8:34:59 GMT -5
Chuckienut I agree with you. It would be different if there was a tangible increase in sound quality with the Parasound, but there isn't. Have you listened to both brands of amps with the same speakers? I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that there's no tangible increase in sound quality. |
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Post by weird23 on Jul 21, 2011 8:36:51 GMT -5
So what is the oldest Emo amp that anyone has heard of still in use?
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Post by crazyhorse on Jul 21, 2011 9:20:52 GMT -5
Parasound is a warmer sound than Emo gear. Comparing the JC monos against the XPA 1s I would go with the JC's any day. Emo was far to bright. Emo is good for HT amps, not something I care for 2 channel though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 10:32:16 GMT -5
Crazyhorse, I'm not personally familiar with either the Parasound JC-1 or the XPA-1. They seem to be fairly similar in specs with the XPA-1 with a slightly higher wattage output and 11 lbs heavier. Both seem to be ruler flat. The Parasound costs 4 1/2 times as much as the XPA-1!
Can you expound on your experience listening to them. Did you A/B them with the exact same connected components, especially speakers, or just hear them at different times in different rooms with different components and make those evaluations
To be honest, I'm generally skeptical of those hearing such SQ differences as to describe one as warm and the other as very bright. Can you verify some objective facts that led to you this conclusion. I guess what I'm saying here is what in a SS AB amp that is very close to another amp of the same type and power and frequency response makes it sound significantly different?
This question would be open to other folks also. I certainly understand amps of considerably different impedance stability and power output having audible differences but not two amps so seemingly close as these two other than price. The price difference I obviously understand knowing the business plan and distribution route to the end user of Emotiva.
Thanks
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Post by crazyhorse on Jul 21, 2011 11:17:57 GMT -5
Yes everything was the same. Quality of parts, the use of the parts, how long the amp is in Class A operation and then sliding into Class B, amp output (JC 1's are rated at 135 amps peak to peak, I have never seen what Emo is rated at).
If you choose not to beleive all the power to you. I go by the SQ of what I'm listening to for 2 channel. I do not care for Emo for 2 Channel as everything I've had was far to bright. If you don't think thats true, well thats fine. I'm going by what my ears hear and what I like.
May not be the science that everyone wants or likes, but there is never a qualification that one has to subscribe to those principals to mean that it will sound good. How does a SET amp sound good but only put out a few watts? Not everything can be measured, and to me its pointless for me to explain further besides saying try it for yourself, pick what you like, and if you don't feel the parasound is better than Emo than by all means enjoy your emo.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 11:49:20 GMT -5
Sorry, but my question was 100% sincere. The tone of your answer sounds more defensive than anything else to me.
Your not going to convince anyone with a that's what my ears heard and if you don't believe that's too bad type answer.
"..........If you choose not to believe all the power to you. I go by the SQ of what I'm listening to for 2 channel. I do not care for Emo for 2 Channel as everything I've had was far to bright. If you don't think thats true, well thats fine. I'm going by what my ears hear and what I like..........."
I would have been curious to know what speakers you used. Did you actually own the XPA-1 and the Parasound?
I have heard this type of claim before and as I said I'm skeptical as much as from the tone of the answers I receive as from not thinking there is a explainable reason for the difference. Whenever I have honestly voiced my doubts I am not meaning to attack the person but have them back up their audible findings.
I have asked the same question as to why one would hear a difference between the XPA-1 and a $1000 receiver driving a certain pair of speakers. I many times have received a seemingly quite good answer that convinces me that there is an audible difference to hear which in fact I have heard an believe I can explain to most folks.
However, when the frequency response of the JC-1 and the XPA-1 are just about as ruler flat as they can get in the area that would seem to affect one sounding quite bright, it would seem one familiar with both amps would be able to give a more objective and understandable answer than, well that is what my ears hear and if you don't believe it too bad.
Thanks, I'll look to another member that might be willing to explain it to me. It's not just because it is an Emo amp. Maybe someone else might find brand X amp in the same general class as these two amps as completely neutral. They all have very flat responses. What factors would account for one sounding warm, one neutral and one bright? That's the essence of my sincere curiosity.
Yes, I continue to be skeptical on amps this close, but I am open minded I would love to hear a logical explanation.
Anyone?
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Post by crazyhorse on Jul 21, 2011 12:04:35 GMT -5
why must you look to others to tell you what it sounds like??
if you are open minded you would demo them both and test to see if you get the answer you are looking for. It will not be found in hearsay.
yes I have owed both, I've used a variety of speakers and keeping other things constant. I gave you reasons of why things can sound different.
This board is filled with people who all SS amps sound the same and also adhear to if you think there is differences between things your crazy. Isn't it your own journey to seek what you find appealing for sound? I'm tired of responding with what I've personally found and then be called out or see the constant posting that people don't beleive cables make a difference and then proceed to poke fun at those that think they do.
hearing something for yourself straight from the source of the sound is the only way to make a judgment. Paper is paper and specs don't mean everything. If you think so, well power to you but I would rather spend my time with the hobby listening, not reading about this amp having better specs than this.
Just because on paper something looks the same doesn't mean it will sound the same. Once again, the bias into class A, the peak amps, quality of parts used, vibration reduction and how it is placed into the amps design, if the amp is truely balanced or using short cuts, ect all play a role. You can not pinpoint the difference on just one thing that would contribute as there are several things that can go into it.
I've also owed other parasound amps. Across the board I find they tend to give a warmer sound compared to emo which tends to run bright in the systems I've had them in.
I've owned XPA 1s, XPA 3, UPA series and XPA 5. Once again I have no problem recommending them for HT usage, for 2 channel there is better out there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 12:18:56 GMT -5
I've had a number of two channel setups, back before surround, and the Emotiva amps sound no different apart from Emo's having more dynamic range/head room than Sony, HK, Sherwood, NAD, etc. Perhaps the Emo wouldn't measure up for some who use single ended Class A tube amps but in such a case it is the latter that is colored, not the Emotiva. Sorry if my sentence structure is messed up but I've been a little off since seeing a new doctor (in every sense of the word, she's a third year resident). Now speakers do have real differences.
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