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Post by shayned on Sept 23, 2011 13:11:38 GMT -5
Hello all: I just ordered an XPA-2 and UMC-1. I am currently an owner of indicated Classe stuff, but I'm selling it, and couldn't resist the temptation to compare these two while the Classe is still in-house. Anyone interested? I also have an Esoteric DV-50s, sony DVP-S9000ES, JM Labs(Focal) Electra 936 speakers, Paradigm Servo-15v2 sub. All is connected with Gutwire and Kimber cabling. These Emotiva pieces cost less than the tax on my Classe gear, and look quite interesting in design to me. Emotiva Amplifiers look quite well designed, and the UMC-1 looks ok. The only reason I'm getting rid of the Classe is because I want a processor with HDMI to reduce some cabling and make things easier to operate(WAF).  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2011 20:22:30 GMT -5
Go to Photobucket and register. You will be able to "upload now" and then "select photos and videos" from where you have them on your computer. They might be in "my photos" or many times if it is a temporary photo I just put it on the desktop and then delete it later after I have posted it at the Lounge. You can then left click on the "IMG code" to copy and then paste it any where you like in the body of your "post reply" window. You can also click on "edit" to resize, auto fix, crop, adjust color, brightness and contrast, etc. Most of the rest is self-explanatory.
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Pauly
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 5,237
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Post by Pauly on Sept 23, 2011 21:55:47 GMT -5
Very cool, I look forward to your review/comparison. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by shayned on Sept 24, 2011 13:32:51 GMT -5
Okay, thanks, I'll try and get a photo of my current setup on now. My Emotiva stuff arrives on Monday....
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Post by shayned on Sept 24, 2011 13:45:54 GMT -5
Looking at the amp internals, I have a feeling I'm going to be quite happy. The processor, we'll see... I'm going to get the XPS-1 and XMC when they come out anyways; this is just to get buy for now. BTW, the red power cord you can just see behind the speaker on the left is a Gutwire Power Clef, 8' long, that cost twice as much as the XPA-2!
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Post by shayned on Sept 26, 2011 18:39:50 GMT -5
Well, so far I'm not very happy. Why? The right channel on my XPA-2 is NOT WORKING. I guess I'll be calling in the morning. Not very impressive so far. I'm in Canada, and shipping this is expensive and annoying. We'll see what happens...
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Pauly
Emo VIPs
Posts: 5,237
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Post by Pauly on Sept 26, 2011 18:56:38 GMT -5
This might be a stupid question to you but...what is the RCA/XLR selector switch set to?
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Post by roadrunner on Sept 26, 2011 19:23:51 GMT -5
yes, be sure to toggle the XLR/RCA selector switch on the back of the XPA-2. When you powered up the amp did you have any cable connected to it? You should power it up with nothing connected when you first receive the amp. The power-on cycle should show you whether you have problems with either channel. Did the LED light up red then blue and stay blue for both channels? The self-test circuit will stay red if it finds a problem with one of the channels. Assuming you checked everything you find in the owner's manual, occasionally rough handling during shpping can dislodge one of the fuses. If you haven't yet called Emotiva's tech support, do so as soon as possible. They will take care of you. If you haven't called yet, check the fuses -- there is no problem with Emotiva if you remove the cover. I can't remember if some of the fuses are accessed from a door on the bottom. I hope you have no real problem with the amp, but if you do have a defect, Emotiva has great tech support and customer service. Emotiva takes very good care of its customers. Emotiva also checks all shipments to international customers before they ship to make sure the equipment works properly. I recommend you contact Lonnie and let him know your XPA-2 was DOA. He will make sure you are given the red carpet treatment.  |
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Post by shayned on Sept 26, 2011 21:10:33 GMT -5
No, I'm pretty sure the right channel is dead, for whatever reason. Here's what I did:
Switched left and right pre out rca's out of UMC-1-no difference. Conclusion, L+R channels on UMC-1 are fine as are the cables.
Switched Speaker cable at amplifer end-which moved good channel from left to right. Conclusion, it's not the speaker wire.
Tried CD player via coax instead of DVD via HDMI. No change. Therefore, not any of those cables or devices. Satellite box is the same as well.
Opened up the amp-took identical fuse pairs and switched them. No difference, not a fuse problem. Fuses also looked good. I saw seven fuses, 3 pairs, one separate. 4 top, 3 bottom.
Checked for loose connections/fried parts etc, and saw nothing.
On startup-all red LED light up a few seconds, then two blue come on and stay on. Looks normal. Switches on back are set for the RCA I'm using. No diagnostic failure at startup indicates maybe a RCA/XLR switch problem, but that would be odd. Who knows.
The fuses are in nice and tight, so if one got dislodged during shipping, that would be cause for alarm as it would take quite a blow.
That's as far as I'm going to go. I'll give them a shout in the morning. I can do just about anything tech wants me to do, so we'll see how it goes.
Thanks guys, and good night for now...
Shayne
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Sept 26, 2011 21:13:54 GMT -5
Man, that sucks. I think the Fed Ex monkeys may have been a little rough with it. Good luck with it all, Shayne.
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Post by shayned on Sept 27, 2011 14:33:18 GMT -5
I guess my evaluation will have to wait... the amp needs to be sent back.  |
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Post by shayned on Oct 13, 2011 9:49:10 GMT -5
Well, the amp was received by Emotiva Oct. 4th. I emailed yesterday, just got a response that, "Hello Shayne we are in the process of servicing your Amplifier at this time. We hope that it will not be too much longer.
Thank you for your patience and understanding." So far, I received a new amp Sept. 26, sent it back Sept. 29, and now, nothing. Color me unimpressed. I'm not sure why they didn't just send me a replacement; it was supposed to be new, after all, not refurbished before I got to hear it. Very disappointing so far...
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Post by roadrunner on Oct 13, 2011 11:28:32 GMT -5
Shayned
Normally, Emotiva would have shipped you a new amp to replace your defective unit. The problem is that they are temporarily out of stock for the XPA-2 amps. A new shipment of XPA-2s is on the boat from China. The XPA Series amps have been so popular that Emotiva has trouble keeping them in stock, even after ramping up production trying to keep up with demand.
Never fear, Emotiva will take care of you. We are all waiting in anticipation of reading your review once you have the XPA-2 installed into your system and have a chance to play with it.
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Post by shayned on Oct 13, 2011 13:54:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess I'm just acting like a brat. They've been good to deal with, I guess I'm just anxious for my new toys to play together. When I get the time, I'll do a preliminary setup blurb about the CDs I'll be comparing with, and my history with high-end audio(I have a friend that works at a high-end boutique audio shop, giving me access to all kinds of equipment, and, more importantly, information). I have some really invaluable experience with extremely expensive cables... I think people here will really like my opinions on that touchy subject...
later...
Later...
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Legis
Minor Hero
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Post by Legis on Oct 13, 2011 17:14:47 GMT -5
With a background like that your thoughs will be most interesting to read. I hope you receive the serviced amp soon enough. IMO Emotiva should order broken parts with express delivery from the manufacturer and not wait for the next big shipment, hopefully that is what's going to happen/happening.
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Legis
Minor Hero
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Post by Legis on Oct 25, 2011 13:12:55 GMT -5
I saw that you had received working XPA-2. Waiting for the review (with pictures)...  |
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Post by shayned on Oct 26, 2011 18:50:24 GMT -5
 Here are the six CD I'm starting with: 1)Live:Secret Samadhi-This album is a tough test for an audio system; it has great dynamic range and detail, but will sound congested and fatiguing on lesser systems. I'll use track 5(Ghost) for it's depth and clarity, and bass extension. 2)Mediaval Babes:Worldes Blysse-This is a wonderful little gem of a recording. It's also an HDCD, but isn't marked as such, if anyone cares. This album is completely acoustic- no electronics used at all for the music. It's the best test for imaging I've got, and the drums are spectacular with a good sub. I'll be using Track 1(Kinderly), Track 10(Passing Thus Alone), and Track 12(Pearl). 3)Colin James:The Little Big Band-Great album. I'll use track 9 to see how it handles the sax etc. 4)Super Audio CD ultimate collection-Track 5(Hugh Masekela, Stimela) in either CD or SACD is another great test for clarity and dynamics. 5)Holly McNarland:Stuff-Just because I like it, but this CD sounds shrill and fatiguing on bad systems. 6)Loreena McKennitt:Live in Paris and Toronto-I love this set too, and I've also seen her in Montreal and Ottawa, and know how her voice is supposed to sound. My Classe etc system nails it. Not quite as large as the real thing, obviously, but very accurate otherwise. So, I'll try to keep going here. In the next post, I'll have a brief chat about my thoughts and prejudices in this hobby so everyone will know where I'm coming from! lol |
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Oct 26, 2011 19:26:02 GMT -5
Looking forward to it! It sounds like we're in for great review.
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Post by shayned on Oct 26, 2011 19:47:49 GMT -5
Okay, how about my thoughts on this crazy hobby we all(mostly!) enjoy?
I've been into HIFI for about 20 years now. I was exposed to it by a rich friend of mine in highschool with his Def Tech bipolar home theater, and I was hooked.
My very first system after college was a Harman Kardon HK3550 integrated and a set of Paradigm Eclipse B/P, and grew from there.
Over the years, I've become quite disenchanted with this stuff. After getting caught in the, "cables make a huge difference" crap, I started to open my eyes a bit, and realize how much of a rip-off most(but not all) of this stuff really is. Want an example? See that Esoteric DV-50S DVD player in my first pic? That came from a friend of mine. He also showed me the price list his store had for all the Esoteric line, up to their top of the line at the time that cost about $30K here in Canada(their top stuff is MUCH more than that now). How much is the markup on such items, you ask? It was exactly 100% of wholesale. In other words, if MSRP was $15K, the store paid $7500. How's that for profit? See those JM Labs Electra 936 speakers? They retailed for $9000+tax when I got them; I paid $7600 incl. taxes, and my friend told me I still paid too much!
Anyways, I just want people to be aware that the industry is full of stuff like this, and very little of it is worth anything near what they charge. Now, with that said, there are some shining examples, even if the price is outrageous, but you really have to have your BS filter on with this stuff, and not fool yourself(like I did for years). So, before I post my review, I'll point form a few thoughts/opinions for everyone:
Expensive cables:
Yes, cable can make a difference, but it's hardly worth mentioning. Here's what I think matters most-build quality and shielding. If you find a drastic change in your system from a cable change, it means on of these things:
-you're using cheapo cables that cost a few bucks and are probably poorly shielded or falling apart/corroding inside.
-the cable is messing with the sound(ie:MIT, Transparent cable, etc). STAY AWAY from those pieces of crap. My friend(his name is Brian BTW) and I fight over this any time it's mentioned. I had(still have) MIT cables. I thought they were great, bought into the hype of the next best thing, next level of performance, only to find a nicely made $100 8 foot pair of plain ones beat it every time. I joke with him(it pisses him off) that when you get to the very best, like MIT Oracle cables, that there's nothing in the boxes at all, the wire just runs straight through it for the best sound possible.
Certain brands and quality:
Is this allowed here? I guess I'll find out. Here's my experience with a few:
Bryston: Keeps getting more expensive, parts quality about the same as Emotiva. 20 year warranty? At those prices and those parts, I should hope so. McIntosh is even worse, but prettier to look at.
Classe:Well engineered, great designs, very thoughtful implementation. Prices keep going up, into the unreasonable now. Moved all their production to China this year, yet prices keep climbing, and a bunch of people 2 hours from me are outta work. I hate you, B&W. Oh, and your speakers suck too.
Yes, I have heard them.
Speakers:If your speakers aren't time and phase accurate at the listening position, they will never sound right, so stop wasting your time. All manufacturers know this, very few care. Thiel and Focal are prime examples of how to do it right, in my opinion. Problem is, this is expensive to pull off well, not much help there. Good speakers are expensive.
Oppo:Another one to keep an eye on; I'm considering a 95 modified universal as my next player. Like Emotiva, unbeatable price/performance from what I can see, but haven't had one yet.
Brands I've had time with: Classe, Focal/Jm Lab, Teac Esoteric, Sony, Pioneer, Arcam, H/K, Emm Labs, Spectral, Def Tech, Paradigm, Meridian, Lexicon(a joke), and a few others... and now Emo.
Peoples opinions:
I see a lot of people talking about things they don't seem to know anything about or have any experience with. There are many out there that speak sarcastically about the prices of expensive HIFI with no experience or foundation for their attitude. Sure, it's appealing to some, especially if you can't afford it, but it's a poor position to take, and invalidates everything you say, again, in my opinion. Poking fun at a $10k speaker cable makes you sound like an idiot, unless you've heard it. If you haven't heard it, your opinion/advice isn't worth anything, and you should keep it to your self.
I will respond to any reasonable questions here, but I'm not looking for a useless argument. Good discussion is appreciated. I also apologize for my rambling on here, it's hard to summarize all I would like to say! Also, ALL of this if opinion-take it for what it is. I consider all reasonable views important, but the bottom line is you have to form your own the best way you can. Enjoy the music and have fun!
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Post by shayned on Oct 26, 2011 20:40:36 GMT -5
Okay, a quick bit of an actual review. Consider this an ongoing review-I'll update as I discover new things. More pics will follow. I've ordered a new TV stand, but it's backordered a month, and I sold the Esoteric, so I'm using a Pioneer Blu-Ray player and an old Arcam CD player for a transport for now. Still trying to decide on a good Universal, and I'm going to build a music server to see how that goes in the new year as well.
EMOTIVA:
So, not the best start, as my amp had a dead right channel module upon delivery. I called Emotiva, and they were great to deal with. Turnaround time for repair was good, despite my impatience. Still, a good experience. The amp is so heavy, I wonder just how many get damaged in shipping...
Build Quality:
Very good, for this price point. The processor looks way better than I thought. The amp is what I expected. I thought the blue lighting on the processor would look like crap in real life, but it ended up looking better, and is dimmable, thank god.
In operation:
A few pops with the pre on startup and when the signal drops, like with my satellite box, a Bell Expressvu 9242. Not a concern to me, might be fixed later, whatever, it's harmless. Very slow to lock on to HDMI.
Manuals aren't very explanatory, and I find them lacking, but I think I know what I'm doing, so setup was fine.
Sound:
A warning before I start, and this is why I'll keep updating this... I've only got about 25 hours on these things. Do they need a lot of break in? I doubt it, but some equipment does. All audio is plugged into a Panamax M5300-PM. The Pioneer Kuro in the pic runs through it's own Monstercrap HTS-3600.
Okay, here we go. I started with Medieval Babes, track 1. The first thing I noticed was the alarming increase in base detail when the drums kicked in, compared to the Classe. This was not expected. Good start. Oh, I've got it x-over at 60HZ with a Paradigm Servo 15V2 sub. Anyways, there's also a sheen on the upper frequencies, a glare on everything most would associate with cheaper digital sources. Part of this is a characteristic of the Arcam transport I'm using, but not all. Hmmm....
Over to Track 10. This is a solo female voice, nothing else, fixed dead center. Sounds quite good, still a bit of a downgrade in the highs. Imaging is good.
Track 11: This is a tough one. It starts with one girl in the choir, dead center, then expands out by adding singers on either side of here with each verse. The imaging on this is amazing if your system can pull it off. It's another amazing bass track as well. The Emo pair pulled this off quite well, the imaging not quite as well defined as with the Classe prepro. Interesting.
Live's Secret Samadhi, track 5(Ghost)-also another hidden HDCD, I might add.
Sorry to say, Emo pieces didn't fare as well here yet. As the music kicked into full stride, it sounded quite congested and horrible. Voices glaring again.
This was quite bad, so I stopped and thought for a bit.
Switched in the Classe prepro, and to my surprise it sounded better, but not much. Damn. When I hooked up the XPA-2 to my speakers, I didn't know if I had any cable long enough, so I went and got some quick cheapo wire($30, 8' pair) and terminated them with some locking bananas. Could this thin crap wire be the culprit? I doubted it, but went through one of my spare wire boxes(I'll show a pic later, you'll laugh). Found some heavy guage custom stuff I paid about $300 for a few years ago, put it in. Remember, I was using monoblocks before, and had a double run of Kimber 8TC before this, but it was only 3' long, and couldn't use it here.
Much better! My speakers like current. Put the UMC-1 back in. Still some congestion and that glare on everything, but better still.
Alright, Colin James up next. Wanted to hear what it did with the sax on track 9. Good systems will have it sound like it's right there in the room with you, just at or slightly behind each speaker. Emo did well with this. I'm starting to notice that there seems to be an overall increase in detail compared to the older Classe, especially in the base, but it comes with a bit of brightness that's annoying. It could be the newer DACS, but it's probably the cheaper output stages of the Emo. Also, it's not totally fair, as the Classe is fully balanced, and this does matter. I can't wait to hear the XSP and XMC when they're available, but I digress...
Slapped in a little Loreena, and it was the same. Great overall sound; nicely detailed, ridiculous base detail/depth(it's killing the Classe here), but with that fatiguing edge that drives audiophiles like me a bit crazy.
Enough for now. I'm going to keep evaluating. What do I think so far? I think Emo deserves all the business they can get. Although I may sound quite critical of the sound so far, I'm keeping in mind that it's early yet, I still have some tweaking to do, and they've already exceeded my expectations(I thought they'd be kind of rotten). I will be getting Emo's balanced stuff when it comes out, so I'll be more interested in that, but this low-priced set is a bit of a surprise to me. As an aside, I thought I'd put some new termination on my speaker cable last night after supper, dropped an exacto knife cutting some heat shrink, and promptly slit my thumb open doing the ol' reflex-grab.
It bled for an hour, which I thought was enough, so off to get some stitches!
I was going to do some more listening, but it'll have to wait a bit. Stay tuned, I'll update how it's going this Saturday or Sunday coming, earlier if I get the chance and time. I can make quick responses in the meantime if anyone has anything to say. More pics will also follow as things change! Hope I'm not too boring for you all.......
...to be continued...
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