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Post by madhat on Dec 6, 2011 8:23:24 GMT -5
Hi I am new to this forum and a proud owner of the Emotiva XPA-5. I love the amp and is using it with my Yamaha Z7 AV Receiver. The XPA -5 is driving my left and right front speakers as well as the centre (Using only 3 of the 5 channels) I am using the Z7 to drive the surround rear and surround backs What I would like to do is to Bi-Amp the XPA-5 on the front left and right speakers. As soon as I connect, the amps starts blinking red on 2 channels and go into protection mode Can 2 channels be used for the left front, 2 channels for the right front and the remaining for the centre? Please don’t tell me an XPA-2 will sort all my problems as I already know that. Shipping to sunny South Africa and our currency value against the mighty dollar is making that option a bit problematic. Looking forward to hear from all Emotiva XPA-5 Guru’s  MadHat |
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Post by wizardofoz on Dec 6, 2011 8:29:45 GMT -5
Do you understand what bi-amping is? I think you are maybe trying to bridge and that you cannot do!
Bi-amp is one one amp for the low freq and one for the mid/highs and you need 2 cables to each speaker and need to remove the jumpers on the rear of the speaker...if your speakers are not biamp able then you can't do it.
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Post by madhat on Dec 6, 2011 8:41:23 GMT -5
Hi Wizardofoz 100% on the Bi-Amping - Using 2 cables per speaker, one for the mids and one for the highs no jumpers. The Vivid Audio K1's has 4 drivers, a mid and a tweeter per speaker. Bi-Amping just would sweeten the deal!  |
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Post by wizardofoz on Dec 6, 2011 8:57:52 GMT -5
It does not indicate on the vivid website if the K1 is bi-ampable, I assume you know what this will look like...4 or maybe even 6 (tri-amp) speaker terminals with external jumpers
Ideally bi-amping you would actively crossover too...
You don't say what your input arrangement is...and have you confirmed there is no connection internally at the speakers with the jumpers off? And you don't have any crossed wires. Often the inputs having something wrong can trigger a red fail led - seen this many times on xpa and upa amps.
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Post by madhat on Dec 7, 2011 1:39:05 GMT -5
Hi Wizardofoz
To answer your question:
From the Yamaha:
Pre-Out Left Front an RCA splitter to Channel 1 and 2 RCA in on Emotiva
Pre-Out Center, an RCA to Channel 3 on Emotiva
Pre-Out Right Front an RCA splitter to Channel 4 and 5 RCA in on Emotiva
From Emotiva:
From Emotiva - Channel 1 to HMF on Left Front
From Emotiva - Channel 2 to LF on Left Front
From Emotiva - Channel 3 to Center
From Emotiva - Channel 4 to HMF on Right Front
From Emotiva - Channel 5 to LF on Right Front
I have confirmed with Vivid Audio that there is no electrical connection between the HMF and LF sections of the K1, and that there are a discrete set of terminals for each section.
Hope this helps?
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Post by bobbyt on Dec 7, 2011 2:13:47 GMT -5
Sounds like you're set up correctly. Try going step by step.
- Connect your source to amps channels 1 & 2
- Connect just channel 1 to speaker High or Low, verify you have sound, and that the other driver isn't moving
- Connect just channel 1 to the opposite driver, verify you have sound, and that the other driver isn't moving
- Connect just channel 2 to each driver, verifying the same
If you get sound out of the disconnected driver, it's obviously connected somewhere (jumpers or internally). If both channels and both drivers work, move on to the other speaker, then channels 4/5.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Dec 7, 2011 2:21:31 GMT -5
Go for it; your speakers (very nice by the way, and designed by B&W) seem to be a good candidate.  And Welcome to the Lounge MadHat! |
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Post by madhat on Dec 7, 2011 2:42:05 GMT -5
Sounds like you're set up correctly. Try going step by step. - Connect your source to amps channels 1 & 2 - Connect just channel 1 to speaker High or Low, verify you have sound, and that the other driver isn't moving - Connect just channel 1 to the opposite driver, verify you have sound, and that the other driver isn't moving - Connect just channel 2 to each driver, verifying the same If you get sound out of the disconnected driver, it's obviously connected somewhere (jumpers or internally). If both channels and both drivers work, move on to the other speaker, then channels 4/5. Hi Bobbyt Thank you for very Good Advice. I will give it a shot! |
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Post by madhat on Dec 7, 2011 2:58:02 GMT -5
Go for it; your speakers (very nice by the way, and designed by B&W) seem to be a good candidate. And Welcome to the Lounge MadHat! Hi LordOfTheRingsEE Appreciate the hospitality on the Forum. The K1 Speakers are superb! It was a dream came true the day I bought them and I cannot tell you how great they sound. Not quite designed by B&W though (Do understand why you made the comment) Laurence Dickie pioneered the application of tapered tube absorbers in the original Nautilus. This technology is emphasized in all Vivid Audio speakers.Laurence Dickie is the Technical Director 1984 Joined B&W. Taken on to develop active speakers. Adapted fully symmetric MOSFET design for purpose and then went on to build stand-alone amplifiers MPA1 and MPA 810 fully bridged 800W mono power amp. 1990 Encouraged by Robert Trunz, now president of B&W, to create 'concept speaker' featuring exponential tapered tube loading for each of four drivers. 1991 Prototype Nautilus speaker system shown at B&W 25th anniversary. 1992 First asked to provide sound for Techno party. Begin building up sound system based on 801 drivers mounted in tube enclosures. Experiment with highly portable bass speakers using four 801 bass units on minimal volume cube enclosure. Full power of M800 MOSFET power amp needed to drive sub-resonance design but very clean LF noted. 1993 Finished Nautilus launched. 1997 Leave B&W and start Blast Loudspeakers Ltd. with the intention of producing studio monitors. Spend next two years developing drivers which will eventually become the Vivid Audio D26, D50 and C125. 1999 approached by Turbosound UK who need new life in R&D after company is freed from Harman ownership. Agree to join as consultant leaving time for other projects. 1999 approached by Philip Guttentag and Bruce Gessner through Robert Trunz, who meanwhile had moved to South Africa to continue work on his music label MELT2000. Philip and Bruce are thinking of starting domestic speaker manufacture using OEM Scandinavian drivers. First introduce them to the idea of building own drivers and they introduce me to the idea of launching non-active systems. Soon won over after playing with passive crossover optimisation software. Begin to learn 3D design with Solidworks. Cabinet design for B1 begin to take shape. Next four years spent slowly building up expertise in new cabinet construction methods and driver assembly. Vivid Audio launched in 20042008 Giya G1 Launch in Las Vegas with Robert who returned to the industry. G1 becomes an instant success and the darling of the world hifi press. 2010 highly successful launch of the smaller GIYA G2 resulting in a busy order book with a considerable backlog. 2011 highlights the birth of G3 taking the GIYA design into the smaller living rooms. Please audition Vivid Audio if you ever get the opportunity and let me know what you think |
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Post by wizardofoz on Dec 7, 2011 3:26:53 GMT -5
Ok well yes it looks like that is all tickety boo on the cabling... so it should all just work.
Unless there is some funky impedance mismatch with the 2 channels joined at the input on the XPA-5 it should just work. Maybe Emo support can chime in or direct e-mail them maybe.
Try running left and right RCA's to the left channel LF and HF connection just to see if thats good. Im guess its a missmatch somehow or you could even try and simulate just plugging the channel 1 & 2 inputs together at the amp without the pre connected and see if that still goes into protect.
My XPA-5 comes next week so will maybe be trying this too.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Dec 7, 2011 18:26:08 GMT -5
Thanks MadHat for the 'B&W' clarification (I already knew that); and I read reviews of your Vivid Audio K1 model speakers, plus the Vivid Audio B1 loudspeaker's review from the October 2011 issue of Stereophile by John Atkinson.
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Post by madhat on Dec 8, 2011 2:56:11 GMT -5
Hi LordOfTheRingsEE
B&W's are great speakers. Vivid Audio is for me personally in a different league, but that is a matter of opinion and I most probably will be crucified on the Forum for the remark.
I have a pair of B1's in my sight for middle next year, the K1's need allot of room, works great in the Home Theater but not so much in the Lounge.
Matt Wall from Emotiva came back to me with the following:
Hello Obi,
Thank you for your interest in our products and I am glad that you are enjoying the XPA-5! It sounds like something is creating a short that is causing the amplifier to go into protection. Do the Red lights flash right away or does it take a period of time for the problem to occur? Have you removed the jumper plates from the binding posts on the speakers?
In my opinion you will achieve better performance by removing the Yamaha’s amplifiers from the equation entirely. Bi-amplifying will only offer you an improvement during the extreme dynamics of your music or movies. You are better off to have the XPA-5 power your surround speakers as well which will give you a more seamless and enveloping listening experience.
I hope this helps point you in the right direction. Please let me know if I can be of further service to you.
It seems that Emotiva is not fond of the 7.1 channel concept?
Great starting to know you Guys
MadHat
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Post by bobbyt on Dec 8, 2011 5:53:15 GMT -5
They probably thought you had a 5 channel setup with the receiver powering 2 surrounds and the XPA-5 powering the front 3 channels.
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Post by ausman on Dec 8, 2011 10:46:28 GMT -5
bi-amping the mains would be my guess..
you could try it with the xpa-5 though as I now the only only 2 amps that amps that support bi-amping would be the xpa-2 and xpa-1
as far as I know yamaha only support bi-amp for mains and possible 1 set of surrounds, if you want to support all speakers bi-amped you would a aux bi-amp
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stiehl11
Emo VIPs 
Give me available light!
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 8, 2011 13:52:40 GMT -5
bi-amping the mains would be my guess.. you could try it with the xpa-5 though as I now the only only 2 amps that amps that support bi-amping would be the xpa-2 and xpa-1 as far as I know yamaha only support bi-amp for mains and possible 1 set of surrounds, if you want to support all speakers bi-amped you would a aux bi-amp All multi-channel amps will bi-amp (separate channel for hi's, separate channel for low's). A multi-channel amp will see a bi-amped speaker as 2 speakers. Bridging an amp is a totally different story. You would know this if you had any gear. |
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Post by House on Dec 8, 2011 13:56:14 GMT -5
as much as i wanted to comment on this BI amp topic its just easier not to as it has been hashed out countless times on this forum lol
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Post by laserman35 on Dec 8, 2011 14:30:16 GMT -5
I think Matt Wall had Bi-amp benefits correct for a non-active crossover setup.
Why i like to Bi-amp
1. Less stress on the amp.
2. Lower the chance of clipping.
3. More tuning options for a active crossover setup.
4. Less resistance if you remove you speakers crossover.
5. Often tighter bass.
6. Lower distortion levels.
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Post by House on Dec 8, 2011 14:33:08 GMT -5
i would bi-amp if i could find an affordable active crossover that would work well with my 683's
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Post by wizardofoz on Dec 10, 2011 9:47:05 GMT -5
MiniDSP's can make for a nice active crossover...several members are doing this with their setups... I am playing with a MiniDSP now www.minidsp.com |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2011 12:35:57 GMT -5
Bi-amping with the xpa-5 will do nothing. Bi-amping only works if you have 2 separate amps. You will gain nothing by using the extra 2 channels on your amp, as the unused watts from the 2 leftover channels, will just be used by the other 3 that are currently hooked up.
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