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Post by Smitty on Dec 29, 2011 19:34:17 GMT -5
I've read some of the forums and can't seem to get one answer: is it better to have one sub or two? If two, does size matter (I know this opens the gutter )? Two XREF 10s versus on XREF 12?; Two XREF 12s?; More? Bigger?
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xki
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Post by xki on Dec 29, 2011 20:02:29 GMT -5
I've read some of the forums and can't seem to get one answer: is it better to have one sub or two? If two, does size matter (I know this opens the gutter )? Two XREF 10s versus on XREF 12?; Two XREF 12s?; More? Bigger? First, consider the size of your room. Next, consider how the room responds to sound. Next, consider what you listen to most. Then, think about what you are expecting. For a small room: 12x14 or less. 1 sub would be just fine if you can place it where it does the most good. If you are expecting nice smooth low end without rattling everything, a 10" should be fine. A 12" isn't a bad choice here either. You will get more air moving and thus more rumble. For a medium room or a large room: 14x18 or bigger. 2 subs. 10" subs will kick it just fine. 12" subs will add the punch that will thump you in the chest. (You did say Emo subs, right?) For a room larger than.... say.... 14x20, do not go with 10" unless you aren't looking for that bang/boom on movies. 12" or larger will be needed to fill that space and placement is critical. Sometimes it's a compromise. OK. My experience. I first purchased 1 12" sub for my room that is 15x19. I couldn't place it in the center so it was off to the side about 2 feet. Regardless of what is said, I could hear exactly where the low end was coming from. It wasn't balanced. My crossover was set to 50Hz. Many told me that I shouldn't be able to tell where the low end was coming from. Well, I could and so could my wife! So.... I found another 12" sub and hooked it up. Completely wonderful! I could enjoy the source without looking at the sub when the low end kicked in. Music was especially better. Most drum tracks have the kick drums centered and the 2 subs put those dead center. I was able to turn down the gain on the subs since there was much more air moving. I don't have room treatments and my space has some real problems but, moving the subs closer to the corners and bringing the mains in a bit solved the issues when seated in the sweet spot. 2 subs is better than 1. Even in a small room 2 will deliver better than 1. (IMHO) When the UMC-1 .19 firmware was released, it took me a while to dial in the proper x-overs and levels. I'm now at a point where the 2 subs are in harmony with the mains. Seamless. Without knowing your room at all, I would recommend getting 2 12" subs. They can be tamed but, 2 10" subs can't be persuaded to perform beyond their capabilities. Go bigger. You won't be disappointed. Go for 2. 1 is, just, well, better suited for a very small room. ;D
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Post by doc1963 on Dec 29, 2011 23:50:43 GMT -5
Well, with only two days remaining at the sale prices, I've decided to purchace a pair of X-Ref 10s to replace my Epik Valors.
My Valors have served me well, but were purchased for a room much larger than where I reside now.
Since my needs are split 80% music and 20% movie viewing, I think that a pair of the X-Ref 10s will provide exactly what I'm looking for... a quick, tight, powerful, but yet musically accurate, bottom end.
I also gave a lot of thought to the 12s, but considering the smaller size of my room (and based upon the recent reviews of the X-Ref 12s), I think the 10s are a better option for my scenario.
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Post by Smitty on Dec 30, 2011 0:03:15 GMT -5
Good points guys. I'm intending on going with EMO subs and speakers. The room is 10'H x 17'W x 18'L and is open to the other main living areas. I have one USUB 10 that's done pretty well, but I can tell where the sub is during movies.
Sounds like going with two would make it blend in better. Sounds like going larger might give me more options for dialing in just right.
Thanks for the pointers!
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xki
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Post by xki on Dec 30, 2011 0:24:40 GMT -5
Good points guys. I'm intending on going with EMO subs and speakers. The room is 10'H x 17'W x 18'L and is open to the other main living areas. I have one USUB 10 that's done pretty well, but I can tell where the sub is during movies. Sounds like going with two would make it blend in better. Sounds like going larger might give me more options for dialing in just right. Thanks for the pointers! Now you are on the right track. If all else fails, you can change your mind and your selections! ;D
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Post by ausman on Dec 30, 2011 0:49:09 GMT -5
pending on room width would say I would say 2 x-ref 10's though if the area can support it I'd say go for broke and go for the option of 2 x-ref 12's...
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 30, 2011 3:57:48 GMT -5
xki offers the best advice: one sub will do if it's powerful enough and it goes low enough for what you want. 2 subs will help distribute the sound and take care of room nodes as well as add additional SPL if you need it.
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RadTech
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Post by RadTech on Dec 30, 2011 9:20:46 GMT -5
I've read some of the forums and can't seem to get one answer: is it better to have one sub or two? If two, does size matter (I know this opens the gutter )? Two XREF 10s versus on XREF 12?; Two XREF 12s?; More? Bigger? First, consider the size of your room. Next, consider how the room responds to sound. Next, consider what you listen to most. Then, think about what you are expecting. For a small room: 12x14 or less. 1 sub would be just fine if you can place it where it does the most good. If you are expecting nice smooth low end without rattling everything, a 10" should be fine. A 12" isn't a bad choice here either. You will get more air moving and thus more rumble. For a medium room or a large room: 14x18 or bigger. 2 subs. 10" subs will kick it just fine. 12" subs will add the punch that will thump you in the chest. (You did say Emo subs, right?) For a room larger than.... say.... 14x20, do not go with 10" unless you aren't looking for that bang/boom on movies. 12" or larger will be needed to fill that space and placement is critical. Sometimes it's a compromise. OK. My experience. I first purchased 1 12" sub for my room that is 15x19. I couldn't place it in the center so it was off to the side about 2 feet. Regardless of what is said, I could hear exactly where the low end was coming from. It wasn't balanced. My crossover was set to 50Hz. Many told me that I shouldn't be able to tell where the low end was coming from. Well, I could and so could my wife! So.... I found another 12" sub and hooked it up. Completely wonderful! I could enjoy the source without looking at the sub when the low end kicked in. Music was especially better. Most drum tracks have the kick drums centered and the 2 subs put those dead center. I was able to turn down the gain on the subs since there was much more air moving. I don't have room treatments and my space has some real problems but, moving the subs closer to the corners and bringing the mains in a bit solved the issues when seated in the sweet spot. 2 subs is better than 1. Even in a small room 2 will deliver better than 1. (IMHO) When the UMC-1 .19 firmware was released, it took me a while to dial in the proper x-overs and levels. I'm now at a point where the 2 subs are in harmony with the mains. Seamless. Without knowing your room at all, I would recommend getting 2 12" subs. They can be tamed but, 2 10" subs can't be persuaded to perform beyond their capabilities. Go bigger. You won't be disappointed. Go for 2. 1 is, just, well, better suited for a very small room. ;D +1 Excellent response xki. Exactly my thoughts. I have two , 500 watt , 12s in a 10 X 12 room and it rocks. ;D
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 30, 2011 10:05:01 GMT -5
I'm personally quite pleased with just the one sub, but it is a ported SVS that has more than enough amplifier and it goes more than low enough for me on movies that require it. Good discussion guys, as these are all good answers. xki's advice on room size and placement is the best place to start.
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Post by doc1963 on Dec 30, 2011 10:33:08 GMT -5
Good points guys. I'm intending on going with EMO subs and speakers. The room is 10'H x 17'W x 18'L and is open to the other main living areas. I have one USUB 10 that's done pretty well, but I can tell where the sub is during movies. Sounds like going with two would make it blend in better. Sounds like going larger might give me more options for dialing in just right. Thanks for the pointers! Smitty, In your particular situation, you're dealing with 3,060 cubic feet (not including the adjacent open area). Given that amount of space, I would go with dual X-Ref 12s.....
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Dec 30, 2011 10:44:43 GMT -5
There is no such thing as too much bass or too much power, especially when you can control the output. Room modes can be very challenging for a single sub. In many cases, an ideal placement for music/video, is not always convienient for household convenience and traffic. Multiple subs give you greater flexibility with placement and the other goodies mentioned in reply #6. Therefore, once you have decided on the features, output capability, size and appearance - GET 2 OF THEM ;D
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xki
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Post by xki on Dec 30, 2011 11:06:06 GMT -5
Smitty - After you decide, procure, and install, start another thread related to tweaks, placement, and impressions.
My subs are down-firing / ported. Moving them even 1" can make a big difference. So does changing the angle. Without room treatments, I'm at a big disadvantage!
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Post by jmilton on Dec 30, 2011 11:09:41 GMT -5
There is no such thing as too much bass or too much power, especially when you can control the output. Room modes can be very challenging for a single sub. In many cases, an ideal placement for music/video, is not always convienient for household convenience and traffic. Multiple subs give you greater flexibility with placement and the other goodies mentioned in reply #6. Therefore, once you have decided on the features, output capability, size and appearance - GET 2 OF THEM ;D No such thing as too much bass, too much power...that's not true! The guy who installed these died after his 2 year old grabbed the volume knob before he could stop him. HAPPY 2012 EVERYONE!
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 30, 2011 11:39:44 GMT -5
If you can afford two get two. It is much easier to create an even overall in-room response with multiple subs than it is with one.
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Post by flamingeye on Dec 30, 2011 12:46:30 GMT -5
If your room is open to other rooms then you will need to add there cft too your not just putting a sub in a room your trying to pressurize the area too the hole area , now in saying that what are you expecting out of a sub is it just accurate bass in the sweet spot or bone rattling foundation shaking bass or chest hitting hart stopping I can’t believe I’m still standing bass or all the above if it’s just accurate bass in the sweet spot one sub will do if it’s accurate base for the hole setting area two subs, but if it’s all the above you will need two or more big subs, but in any case find out what your real cft are to start with, that’s my .02
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flyhigh
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Post by flyhigh on Dec 30, 2011 13:24:25 GMT -5
I've been reading along, and it seems to me that the guys are all giving good advice. In my experiences, two (2) subs has been the better option....but that will of course depend on factors such as budget, space allowance, etc. One sub, carefully placed and well adjusted in a good room will sound good! I've had rooms that were absolutely diabolical in their mangling of low frequencies. West Texas, and Carribean to be specific. HEAVILY constructed, 12"thick reinforced concrete walls made the room into an acoustic fun-house that drove me mad with it's wild peaks, and nulls that would have been difficult to tame by any means. Rooms like that don't "absorb" bass...they simply reflect it back into the room to wreak havoc with all the other reflected energy still ricocheting around. Two subs can help, but never eliminate that mess. Here in my normal, stick built ranch style house.....it's an entirely different story, and the smallish-medium room has the most well behaved low frequency behaviour I've been treated to in a long while. One sub sounds good in here....but I have two. To such a degree....it all depends on your situation. One consideration when using multiple subs, is TIME ALIGNMENT of the subs. If the Subs are both equidistant from the listening position...super. If not, then this isn't ideal...and some means of correcting that electronically is needed. You may never get the "quality" of bass you want otherwise. Two subs is generally better....but only when implemented well. Best Wishes, and Good Luck Fly
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 30, 2011 13:26:59 GMT -5
There is no such thing as too much bass or too much power, especially when you can control the output. Room modes can be very challenging for a single sub. In many cases, an ideal placement for music/video, is not always convienient for household convenience and traffic. Multiple subs give you greater flexibility with placement and the other goodies mentioned in reply #6. Therefore, once you have decided on the features, output capability, size and appearance - GET 2 OF THEM ;D No such thing as too much bass, too much power...that's not true! The guy who installed these died after his 2 year old grabbed the volume knob before he could stop him. HAPPY 2012 EVERYONE!I see you've been to ausman's place!
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Post by House on Dec 30, 2011 13:38:42 GMT -5
good lord, i use just one big one. a 15" servo by paradigm and its not in a small room at all and its practiacally supplying bass to the entire house that is nearly 3000sq ft. <--very open floor plan. This sub has never seen the gain dial turned past half and let me tell you....it gets retarded LOUD in the house!
IMO unless your trying to supply Carnegie Hall with bass.....just stick with ONE GREAT sub and spare yourself the tuning nightmare of two cheap subs....or two subs periond for that matter.
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Post by Smitty on Dec 30, 2011 14:37:03 GMT -5
Wow! Ask and you shall receive! Great info folks. xki, you laid out a great discussion and logic. Great tips!
Last question: Are EMO subs comparably good to other makers?
I know that people tend to get attached to their favorites but I'd like to ask you all to be objective in response.
I have actually begun to like the EMO look, as utilitarian as it is. It's kind of like looking at something that will do what it was designed for. As for sound, I only have an USUB 10" right now so I can't really compare to anything bigger.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Dec 30, 2011 14:57:31 GMT -5
Emo subs are a great value (price/performance). But like all speakers, you will have to try them out for yourself. It is your speakers and room that will determine how they sound to you. Speakers/subs combo that might sound perfect in my room, may not sound the same in your room. Then, there is our different hearing acuity, frequency sensitivities and listening habits. From here on, advice is not much. Experiencing it is everything. Now go to work and enjoy the fruit of your labor!
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