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Post by mickeyharlow on Jul 8, 2012 20:20:50 GMT -5
Enjoy your new sub. Give us the report on the difference. As for me, it tamed the boominess without lessening the effect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 20:20:59 GMT -5
Awesome! Congrats LC. Thanks Rich, SVS just sent my subwoofer out on Friday by R&L Freight, so I'm just very surprised that it has made it to Atlanta already. Normally when anything that I order that makes it to Atlanta, gets delivered the next day, so two days earlier than expected would be fine with me. ;D We want pics or it didn't happen!!
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jul 8, 2012 20:24:58 GMT -5
Thanks Rich, SVS just sent my subwoofer out on Friday by R&L Freight, so I'm just very surprised that it has made it to Atlanta already. Normally when anything that I order that makes it to Atlanta, gets delivered the next day, so two days earlier than expected would be fine with me. ;D We want pics or it didn't happen!! Pictures will happen, probably next weekend as I have the electrician coming in on Thur or Fri so the home theater/living room will be a mess until he's done.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jul 8, 2012 20:27:21 GMT -5
It seems that a vicious cycle has been started, but now who will Nate give credit to? ;D My credit goes probably goes to Mark of Mach 5 audio for giving me his cost on all his stuff and really helping me out when I first started DIY lol and just wanting the biggest, baddest system I could imagine. AVS DIY forum also helped a lot. I've bough over 30 drivers from Mark, as well as sold probably 200-300 drivers for him over the years lol. As Eric says "N8 you love spending other people's money" ;D Mark will never admit he gave me my condition but he does tell everyone that he created a monster LOL ...and now we know who actually started all of this!!! Thanks Mark! ;D
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Post by mickeyharlow on Jul 8, 2012 20:37:30 GMT -5
Even I got this condition. This forum is bad for my wallet. As I continue to explain to my wife "The only difference between men and boys are the price of their toys."
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 9, 2012 1:24:19 GMT -5
2 subs are a big improvement over just using 1 sub. However, after 4 subs, there is the onset of diminishing returns up to about 8 when it no longer makes sense to add more subs. I never rule out any maximum when it comes to subs and amplifier power ;D If you read that HK paper where projected calculations are made, claim is that 50 subs is not enough to smooth out all anomalies. 5000 subs is enough... So, even 50 subs is unrealistic, but 4 subs best placed at each mid-wall point is about as good as it gets. More is just wasting money. Lest also not forget we (me at least) are talking about providing sub bass to a listening "zone", which is larger than just the one "MLP" in many stereo systems. One (even not equalized) sub could be enough if carefully positioned to give good bass to MLP. But the persons next to MLP might get dips at certain frequencies.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:09:12 GMT -5
2 subs are a big improvement over just using 1 sub. However, after 4 subs, there is the onset of diminishing returns up to about 8 when it no longer makes sense to add more subs. I never rule out any maximum when it comes to subs and amplifier power ;D If you read that HK paper where projected calculations are made, claim is that 50 subs is not enough to smooth out all anomalies. 5000 subs is enough... So, even 50 subs is unrealistic, but 4 subs best placed at each mid-wall point is about as good as it gets. More is just wasting money. Lest also not forget we (me at least) are talking about providing sub bass to a listening "zone", which is larger than just the one "MLP" in many stereo systems. One (even not equalized) sub could be enough if carefully positioned to give good bass to MLP. But the persons next to MLP might get dips at certain frequencies. More than 4 will not smooth out any better. You can still add tons of headroom by adding more subs. HK's paper is only for his specific tested sized rooms. We actually been having this exact debate on the DIY AVS forums. The problem is that HK's paper or Toole's doesn't account for people wanting added headroom in odd shaped rooms. Their papers are great but don't apply to all rooms.
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 9, 2012 14:49:08 GMT -5
If you read that HK paper where projected calculations are made, claim is that 50 subs is not enough to smooth out all anomalies. 5000 subs is enough... So, even 50 subs is unrealistic, but 4 subs best placed at each mid-wall point is about as good as it gets. More is just wasting money. Lest also not forget we (me at least) are talking about providing sub bass to a listening "zone", which is larger than just the one "MLP" in many stereo systems. One (even not equalized) sub could be enough if carefully positioned to give good bass to MLP. But the persons next to MLP might get dips at certain frequencies. More than 4 will not smooth out any better. You can still add tons of headroom by adding more subs. HK's paper is only for his specific tested sized rooms. We actually been having this exact debate on the DIY AVS forums. The problem is that HK's paper or Toole's doesn't account for people wanting added headroom in odd shaped rooms. Their papers are great but don't apply to all rooms. The room in the paper is indeed rectangular. But let's agree if my design is OTT (over the top), your system is COTTATS (completely OTT and then some) ;D Now if you excuse me, I am in the midst of doing research on an Onken Bass cab (with single humble 15" woofer) to complete the d'Appolito center mid-high cab...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 15:09:51 GMT -5
O, I know mine is stupid but I'm ok with that. IMO there nothing wrong will going a little bonkers, If you see what I pay of my drivers, you'd have something similar to mine I'd bet His paper also doesn't take into account that people could stack drivers on top of each other. this was one of my biggest gripes on the avs thread. Lots of guys will stack driver on top or beside etc. I'd love to see if 4 spots around the room with 8 drivers could possible smooth out nodes more, or if the argument would still be that, it's 4 positions and not the amount of drivers, at least if the stacked subs did make a difference, thats what some would argue lol As for you Onken Bass Cab, I've got no idea what the heck it is...
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 9, 2012 17:41:16 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 17:50:13 GMT -5
Humm, looks easy enough to build. It would be interesting to see how that design sounds.
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Post by firemanast on Jul 11, 2012 18:32:16 GMT -5
Just ordered dual Epik Empires today to replace one polk 550 pro. ;D The dual Empires made it home yesterday, everything dialed in today. I must say they rock, I should have done this along time ago ;D.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jul 11, 2012 19:06:00 GMT -5
Stacking subs is usually done to increase headroom. But that it not relevant for using multiple subs which was intended for creating eveness in room response. So, if anyone wants to stack 8 subs, your room response will not change from using 4 subs. It could also make nodes more evident at certain locations with added bloat to boot. 4 well placed subs are about all that is needed for a typical H/T room. The more subs that are added at different locations will add more evenness to the room up intinity. But after 8 subs, the human ear becomes insensitive to changes in room evenness. Do we need a vote on which is more important? Room bass response or bass headroom?
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jul 11, 2012 19:06:44 GMT -5
My 2nd PB12-Plus also made it in today. Just finished getting both subs dialed again. I too should have done this when I bought my first PB12-Plus. So far my impressions are the bass seems effortless, it's as if these subwoofers are laughing at me and saying "Is that all you got?" One of these subwoofers was a huge improvement over what I had before, now two is just plain kick butt! ;D
Oh yeah, I'm demoing my duals with "Underworld: Awakenings". Lots of low frequency effects to be had!
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jul 11, 2012 19:13:28 GMT -5
Welcome to the club LC. I'm glad that you have finally discovered this dimension in dual sub usage. It's a revealing & pleasant new world out there for you. To better enjoy what you really have, play a real bass heavy music piece and walk around the room as you listen. The experience should be mind boggling. Enjoy! ;D
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Jul 11, 2012 21:56:21 GMT -5
My 2nd PB12-Plus also made it in today. Just finished getting both subs dialed again. I too should have done this when I bought my first PB12-Plus. So far my impressions are the bass seems effortless, it's as if these subwoofers are laughing at me and saying "Is that all you got?" One of these subwoofers was a huge improvement over what I had before, now two is just plain kick butt! ;D Oh yeah, I'm demoing my duals with "Underworld: Awakenings". Lots of low frequency effects to be had! Seriously, if you *REALLY* want to see what those subs can do - get a Blu-ray of the movie "Super 8" and play the train wreak scene! (Which is about 18 minutes into the movie). Wow.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2012 22:15:04 GMT -5
Stacking subs is usually done to increase headroom. But that it not relevant for using multiple subs which was intended for creating eveness in room response. So, if anyone wants to stack 8 subs, your room response will not change from using 4 subs. It could also make nodes more evident at certain locations with added bloat to boot. 4 well placed subs are about all that is needed for a typical H/T room. The more subs that are added at different locations will add more evenness to the room up intinity. But after 8 subs, the human ear becomes insensitive to changes in room evenness. Do we need a vote on which is more important? Room bass response or bass headroom? Usually is the key word, not always. In my system, adding the 3rd set of 21's only made things smoother as well as adding more headroom, I have them in 6 different locations not including the 18's or the IB. It's not a matter of whats most important to you, as IMO you should never try for one or the other, you should try for the middle ground of everything, compromise is the key to a great system. It will never be perfect and if it was, the hobby would be done. 8 subs in a rectangular room of course....
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jul 11, 2012 22:30:47 GMT -5
My 2nd PB12-Plus also made it in today. Just finished getting both subs dialed again. I too should have done this when I bought my first PB12-Plus. So far my impressions are the bass seems effortless, it's as if these subwoofers are laughing at me and saying "Is that all you got?" One of these subwoofers was a huge improvement over what I had before, now two is just plain kick butt! ;D Oh yeah, I'm demoing my duals with "Underworld: Awakenings". Lots of low frequency effects to be had! Seriously, if you *REALLY* want to see what those subs can do - get a Blu-ray of the movie "Super 8" and play the train wreak scene! (Which is about 18 minutes into the movie). Wow. I put that in right after Underworld! WOW is an understatement! ;D
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Post by edoggrc51 on Jul 11, 2012 23:49:12 GMT -5
Congrats on the twins LC! I'm sure you'll love them. But be warned, one sub turns into two which turns into four! ;D
Here's a list of my favorite demo scenes (in no paticular order):
1) Underworld Awakening (big Lycan intro scene & big Lycan drops the elevator on Selene) 2) Tron (arena battle scene) 3) FOTP (barrel roll, plane crash scene) 4) WOTW (Pod Emergence & Deathray) 5) Terminator Salvation (Gas Station & plane chase scene) 6) Master & Commander (Opening cannon blast) 7) Cloverfield (1st monster encounter) 8) Live Free Die Hard (big rig vs jet scene) 9) Battle LA (sewer scene, towards the end) 10) Incredible Hulk (sound cannons & Abomination fight)
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Post by Entity on Jul 11, 2012 23:58:53 GMT -5
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the prodigious use of the lfe track in that movie.
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