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Post by musicfreak on Jun 14, 2012 11:02:25 GMT -5
Hi Everyone,
I've started a new job and moved to a new (old) house, so I haven't been around here much.
The new listening room is crying out for a subwoofer, so with some of my raise money from switching companies, I just pulled the trigger on an X-Ref 10 and balanced XLR cable to connect to my USP-1.
This is the first time I have called into Emotiva, as I was torn between the 10 and the 12. I spoke to Vincent, who was extremely helpful. The plan is to upgrade to the XSP-1 when it is introduced and buy a second X-Ref 10 at that point.
It will arrive on Monday, and I am supposed to have Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday off (to balance out a few 70 hour weeks) so I am pretty stoked! ;D
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Post by paintedklown on Jun 14, 2012 11:07:02 GMT -5
Congrats on the new house, that's great man.  Also, congrats on the new Emo sub. Please come back here and post your thoughts, once you have had time to give it real workout.  |
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Post by musicfreak on Jun 16, 2012 19:13:13 GMT -5
Thanks! And now that the Summer Sale is going on, I guess it is OK for me to reveal that Vincent extended the sale price to me early. Also, I did well in that the XLR cables appear to be sold out for the most part, and I have one on the way.
I'm sure I will be pleased, although I am looking at the Velodyne SMS-1 to go along with it. I am wondering something- where is the approximate setting for a 60Hz crossover on the USP-1?
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Post by creimes on Jun 16, 2012 21:03:45 GMT -5
Oh man I am so envious of you....lol...., even on sale its not in my budget right now....which makes me wanna cry cause I want a nice sealed sub for music so bad and the Emotiva is looking like it as I went to a local retailer here that carries Paradigm monitor series subs and the 8'' is $750 and the 10'' is $980.....Yikes...
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Post by thepcguy on Jun 16, 2012 21:10:27 GMT -5
Oh man I am so envious of you....lol...., even on sale its not in my budget right now....which makes me wanna cry cause I want a nice sealed sub for music so bad and the Emotiva is looking like it as I went to a local retailer here that carries Paradigm monitor series subs and the 8'' is $750 and the 10'' is $980.....Yikes... Sell your wires ;D |
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Post by creimes on Jun 16, 2012 21:13:45 GMT -5
I do have my Ultralink XLR cables on Canuck Audio Mart...lol
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Post by musicfreak on Jun 19, 2012 9:30:56 GMT -5
This post will be a bit long. I've spent the last 6 hours or so setting up my new X-Ref10 and have run into a couple of issues.
My room is a "live"...terrazza floors with an area rug (which I hate but she loves terrazza) and plaster walls. The house was built in 1957. The ceiling slopes- 8 feet or so at the left of the room (left speaker) and 9 feet or so towards the middle (right speaker) it does the same from the front of the room (where the system is) to the rear- the rear being higher. A challenge to be sure. I'm investigating room treatments now.
I'm running the Songtowers crossed at 50Hz on the USP-1 and have the low pass crossed at 75hz using the X-Ref crossover, with the USP-1 crossover opened up higher so that the X Ref is handling sub crossover duties. I have the X-Ref placed as close to the wall as possible behind the right speaker. The speakers are about 3 feet out into the room. I could have corner loaded the sub behind the left speaker, but I was concerned about the sub becoming boomy from room gain.
My goal was clean bass extension without making the subwoofer "obvious"- which drives me nuts. It sounds great. I'm getting usable output down to 20Hz, although I'm getting much better from 28Hz up.
But----in running sweep tones, I found large audible room cancellation between 50-60Hz. I've tried every possible thing except corner placement. I tried to EQ it with the X-Ref to balance it out, but no dice.
Any ideas? Corner loading? A second sub in a different location? Active subwoofer room correction?
Also, the sub did not "wake up" this morning- I had to turn it on by using the jog control- although the volume control was set very low, as my wife was asleep.
All suggestions are welcome.
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,345
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Post by DYohn on Jun 19, 2012 9:41:22 GMT -5
Two thoughts. You have the mains high-passed at 50Hz and the sub low-passed at 75Hz, and this is also the band where you say you detect cancellation. First thing to try is match the Xover settings and slopes and see if this helps. (Are you using an SPL meter or just your ears?) Secondly, 50-80 Hz contains common room modes for rooms with standard 8-foot ceilings. If it's a room mode there is nothing much you can do about it except use different subwoofer placement to try and move the null out of your listening space... or add bass absorption room treatments.
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Post by matt34 on Jun 19, 2012 9:51:39 GMT -5
Max out the x-over setting on the sub and just use the x-over on the AVR. If that doesn't solve it you're probably going to have to play around with sub placement.
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Post by musicfreak on Jun 19, 2012 9:56:54 GMT -5
I haven't broken out the SPL meter yet. I will try setting everything to 50Hz but will try setting the USP-1 at 50Hz and going direct on the X-Ref10. My idea was to have an overlap there for reinforcement.
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
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Post by DYohn on Jun 19, 2012 10:10:10 GMT -5
I haven't broken out the SPL meter yet. I will try setting everything to 50Hz but will try setting the USP-1 at 50Hz and going direct on the X-Ref10. My idea was to have an overlap there for reinforcement. Reinforcement of 50-80Hz is one of the worst things you can do in most rooms. I'd suggest setting both to 75-80Hz rather than 50Hz and try that. Your sub can handle the 50-80Hz band a lot easier than your mains can (and more efficiently too.) |
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Post by orangeLollies on Jun 19, 2012 20:17:25 GMT -5
You musicfreak, Do everything DYohn has suggested regarding your crossovers: Set sub to max or bypass then let your USP-1 take care of it with both HPF and LPF frequencies the same, that way you can ensure the x-over curve and dB slopes match... THEN, to sort out your room modes, use active mode cancellation when you get your second sub... check out this thraed - three links in first two posts: emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=subwoofeers&action=display&thread=19241Only way to fly ;D *EDIT: Corrected link |
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Post by musicfreak on Jun 20, 2012 8:22:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the help and suggestions. I've followed DYohn's instructions to the letter.
Kiwi- you linked back to this thread. I'm interested to see what you want me to see. Also- I think you can see my ultimate plan- Upgrade to the XSP-1 when it is finally available (come on, let's go already!) From what I can tell, this will give me stereo sub ability, selectable crossover slopes and generally improved performance. I'm holding the left corner in my room for the second sub, which I may just get now and daisy chain off of the current sub.
Even with the room node, the X-Ref10 is quite impressive. Nearly as impressive is how all of the frequencies are cleaner now that the UPA-1's and Songtowers have been relieved of deep bass duty.
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,345
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Post by DYohn on Jun 20, 2012 9:45:21 GMT -5
Excellent, I'm glad it helped. You can see now why I advocate for using a subwoofer in even dedicated 2-channel music systems. I don't care what anyone uses for mains or what kind of music they like, a properly integrated subwoofer will always help. |
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Post by orangeLollies on Jun 20, 2012 17:04:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the help and suggestions. I've followed DYohn's instructions to the letter. Kiwi- you linked back to this thread. I'm interested to see what you want me to see. Also- I think you can see my ultimate plan- Upgrade to the XSP-1 when it is finally available (come on, let's go already!) From what I can tell, this will give me stereo sub ability, selectable crossover slopes and generally improved performance. I'm holding the left corner in my room for the second sub, which I may just get now and daisy chain off of the current sub. Even with the room node, the X-Ref10 is quite impressive. Nearly as impressive is how all of the frequencies are cleaner now that the UPA-1's and Songtowers have been relieved of deep bass duty. Hi Musicfreak, *EDIT: Corrected thread link in previous post The three links in the thread all discuss subwoofer placement for active mode cancellation. Simply put, the theory is to place one sub front-center and the second sub rear-center. Same x-over setting, SPL and phase matched. This way they work together to knock out the first and third order modes in your room. There's a bit of reading involved (some more than others)... But if you're planning on a second sub, and your room allows for this setup, then this is the way to go IMO. I am running this setup at home, although with two very sh#t subs and no EQ... But even still has made a massive improvement to low freq response and decay in my room. Happy to discuss more if this approach is of interest to you. I also believe the forum member Nemesis has significant experience in this technique also... cheers Shane |
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Post by orangeLollies on Jun 20, 2012 17:05:12 GMT -5
Excellent, I'm glad it helped. You can see now why I advocate for using a subwoofer in even dedicated 2-channel music systems. I don't care what anyone uses for mains or what kind of music they like, a properly integrated subwoofer will always help. Amen to that ;D |
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Post by musicfreak on Jul 10, 2012 18:28:48 GMT -5
Well, y'all said to check back in. First, this is a really nice sub. Not nice for the money, just plain nice. And anyone who thinks there is no deep bass in most recordings is just plain smoking crack. I used to believe that too. Not anymore.
How much do I like the XRef-10? Well, I bought a second one this morning. That should say something.
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Post by orangeLollies on Jul 10, 2012 18:42:25 GMT -5
Well, y'all said to check back in. First, this is a really nice sub. Not nice for the money, just plain nice. And anyone who thinks there is no deep bass in most recordings is just plain smoking crack. I used to believe that too. Not anymore. How much do I like the XRef-10? Well, I bought a second one this morning. That should say something. Great to hear! - enjoy |
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
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Post by geebo on Jul 10, 2012 19:26:29 GMT -5
Well, y'all said to check back in. First, this is a really nice sub. Not nice for the money, just plain nice. And anyone who thinks there is no deep bass in most recordings is just plain smoking crack. I used to believe that too. Not anymore. How much do I like the XRef-10? Well, I bought a second one this morning. That should say something. Congrats on the second XRef! I think you'll really enjoy two of 'em. |
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