DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 4, 2012 14:46:32 GMT -5
What are you talking about?
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Post by rclark on Sept 4, 2012 14:48:43 GMT -5
a pair of 10's in a small box playing flat to 8hz. Bullhonky.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 4, 2012 14:49:44 GMT -5
a pair of 10's in a small box playing flat to 8hz. Bullhonky. Like I said, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
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Post by rclark on Sept 4, 2012 14:53:41 GMT -5
Sure.
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Post by rclark on Sept 4, 2012 15:02:10 GMT -5
I'll tell you what, if you can provide proof of this sub, measured in room, playing 8hz tones from a movie as loud as the rest of the audio track at reference level, I will paypall you $100.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 4, 2012 15:29:07 GMT -5
I don't own one or I would take you up on that. Like taking candy from a baby. I have tested them, and they work as advertised.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 4, 2012 18:07:28 GMT -5
8 Hz - Pretty close to death!
I remember back in the 70s my acoustics teacher talking about how the French were working on a riot control 'weapon'. They would 'shoot' low frequencies near the resonant frequency of the brain - which he claimed was 7Hz - it was supposed to first make you sleepy, then unconscious and I guess there was a possibility of death. Problem was they couldn't 'aim' their weapon, just like we can't localize a sub, but even more at those wavelengths - so the shooters were as affected as the targets. I've never heard more about it so don't know how true it was, but I always liked the story.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 4, 2012 18:11:36 GMT -5
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 4, 2012 19:41:09 GMT -5
According to reports from Emofest 2012, the release of the X/REF-15 is imminent. However, it will not be self-powered like the X/REF-12s. It will be a passive sub. Emo has built a sub amp specifically for use with the X/REF-15. While there are no specs posted as yet, is there any performance advantage for using external amps with a sub? I was hoping for it to be an active sub as I don't have space for additional amps and I don't like to have my electronics out in the open Don't write off that if the 15 ever surfaces that it won't have an internal amp. From the intel that I gathered, one reason a stand alone amp is being used is that it is easier to switch between different subwoofers while testing. The final production units may end up having internal amps. Nothing final has been decided at this point.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 4, 2012 19:59:49 GMT -5
According to reports from Emofest 2012, the release of the X/REF-15 is imminent. However, it will not be self-powered like the X/REF-12s. It will be a passive sub. Emo has built a sub amp specifically for use with the X/REF-15. While there are no specs posted as yet, is there any performance advantage for using external amps with a sub? I was hoping for it to be an active sub as I don't have space for additional amps and I don't like to have my electronics out in the open Don't write off that if the 15 ever surfaces that it won't have an internal amp. From the intel that I gathered, one reason a stand alone amp is being used is that it is easier to switch between different subwoofers while testing. The final production units may end up having internal amps. Nothing final has been decided at this point. Regardless of what subwoofer system options come out of the mill, I really hope the stand-alone sub amp appears. It's right up there with the toaster and espresso machine on my Emotiva product wish list.
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Post by ansat on Sept 4, 2012 20:10:23 GMT -5
According to reports from Emofest 2012, the release of the X/REF-15 is imminent. However, it will not be self-powered like the X/REF-12s. It will be a passive sub. Emo has built a sub amp specifically for use with the X/REF-15. While there are no specs posted as yet, is there any performance advantage for using external amps with a sub? I was hoping for it to be an active sub as I don't have space for additional amps and I don't like to have my electronics out in the open Don't write off that if the 15 ever surfaces that it won't have an internal amp. From the intel that I gathered, one reason a stand alone amp is being used is that it is easier to switch between different subwoofers while testing. The final production units may end up having internal amps. Nothing final has been decided at this point. I talked to Lonnie extensively about this external amp as I run passive subs. The amp is done. Personally I think this is a good move for them. It allows much more flexibility and the diy market only has 3 consumer grade options currently. You have the parts express amp which has issues with exaggerated specs. You have the svs which is out of the price point for diy. And you have the cerwin Vega pro style amp which is also priced high and has no following. Most people elect to use pro amps and void the warranties to make them work. Lonnie stated the current one they built was a 2 channel 500 watt bridgeable amp.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Sept 4, 2012 20:43:55 GMT -5
I really don't need any convincing that great bass can come from "small" enclosures. I just have to look to my favorite sub manufacturer, Velodyne. If the X/REF-15 can have the physical measurements as the DD+15 but perform as well as the DD+12, I would be satisfied. I'm also well aware that if you want to use a not too powerful sub amp, you need to go the big box route.
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Post by rclark on Sept 4, 2012 20:51:24 GMT -5
I choose performance and musicality first, dimensions..... dead last. In fact I don't even consider them.
Real subs are big.
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Post by jdskycaster on Sept 4, 2012 21:28:44 GMT -5
I don't own one or I would take you up on that. Like taking candy from a baby. I have tested them, and they work as advertised. If this contest is on I want in. If it was the 12" sealed unit with 400W amp that you linked to then I am afraid you would lose. These subs may have been designed for flat response to 8Hz but they do not deliver the goods with any amount of gusto. Nor would I expect them to based on their specifications. From the HT Mag review of the Infra-sub 12: " As mentioned earlier, the R.A.B.O.S. measurements showed that the Infrasub-12's frequency response in my room was down 2dB at 20Hz—excellent performance by normal standards, but Bag End claims that the Infrasub-12 is down only 3dB at 8Hz. Based on listening to material that I know to have some very low bass, my feeling was that this claim is a bit optimistic. R.A.B.O.S. doesn't have test signals below 20Hz, but I do have a Hewlett-Packard signal generator with no such limitation. Feeding the output of the signal generator into the Infrasub-12's input, I listened and recorded the levels indicated by the R.A.B.O.S. SPL meter as I turned the signal frequency down from 20Hz.With 20Hz as the reference, the Infrasub-12's frequency response was down 6dB at 18Hz, 10dB at 16Hz, and 12dB at 11Hz. At this point, the sub's amplifier shut off, and I did not pursue testing at lower frequencies. It's important to keep in mind that the R.A.B.O.S. SPL meter is not calibrated for frequencies below 20Hz, but it is designed specifically for subwoofer measurement, and my ears told me that the Infrasub-12 was struggling more and more as the frequency was lowered. I remember the Infrasub-18 doing considerably better in this test." And the review goes on to recommend a less expensive ID alternative that outperforms it: "and there are some less expensive subwoofers around that perform as well or better in a home theater context. At $849, the slightly bigger Hsu Research VTF-3 plays louder than the Infrasub-12, and its low-end extension is comparable."It's time for a subwoofer shootout. ;D
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 4, 2012 22:37:40 GMT -5
This thread is about the Emotiva 15" sub, not what other small subs can do in room. Lets keep it on track.
Please feel free to have a respectful conversation in a different thread.
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Post by GTPlus on Sept 7, 2012 7:22:55 GMT -5
So would it be accurate to speculate this will be a class D amp? Since it is 500x2 and 2ru.
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Post by ansat on Sept 7, 2012 9:18:52 GMT -5
So would it be accurate to speculate this will be a class D amp? Since it is 500x2 and 2ru. I believe I heard lonnie say that this was class D. I really cant see any other choice being in a 2 ru.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Sept 12, 2012 20:01:03 GMT -5
If there was truly a market of scale for passive subs, you can bet that sub manufacturers would be dumping their passive subs on the market. I think that Emo is limiting themselves to a small audiophile group with a passive X/Ref-15 with the available sub amp being the real money maker from the DIY crowd. Very clever indeed. I really don't see a compelling reason for a passive subwoofer. The reasons proffered that the amp will last longer or better protected from vibrations are reasonable theories that don't really hold out in practice. I have owned active Velodyne subs since 1991 and I do play bass aggressively. Not once was any amp damaged because of vibrations. I also subscribed to TAC, Home Theater and Sound & Vision mags and I do read myriads of online mags monthly. I can't say that I have read what represents a plethora of active sub owners complainig about their internal sub amps shaking loose or coming apart due to vibrations. For me, it's either active X/REF-15s or bust. It is that simple for me now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 21:13:53 GMT -5
Those bag end subs playing flat to 8hz at reference? or what kind of scale are they pretending to work with? with a 500 watt amp at 92dB's? lol Ok then, that would have to be seen to be believed because it's pretty far fetched. Are there an T/S parameters? Could run a sim and see what they could be capable of.
As for the ref-15's, I really hope Emo gets these to market sooner than later. eD bowing out has left another hole open for someone else to fill in that price category. I think it will be a huge win for them. 12's and 10's just don't cut it IMO for HT.
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Post by ansat on Sept 12, 2012 22:51:50 GMT -5
If there was truly a market of scale for passive subs, you can bet that sub manufacturers would be dumping their passive subs on the market. I think that Emo is limiting themselves to a small audiophile group with a passive X/Ref-15 with the available sub amp being the real money maker from the DIY crowd. Very clever indeed. I really don't see a compelling reason for a passive subwoofer. The reasons proffered that the amp will last longer or better protected from vibrations are reasonable theories that don't really hold out in practice. I have owned active Velodyne subs since 1991 and I do play bass aggressively. Not once was any amp damaged because of vibrations. I also subscribed to TAC, Home Theater and Sound & Vision mags and I do read myriads of online mags monthly. I can't say that I have read what represents a plethora of active sub owners complainig about their internal sub amps shaking loose or coming apart due to vibrations. For me, it's either active X/REF-15s or bust. It is that simple for me now. I think it's a great move logistically especially if they want to move the speaker market to the U.S. keep the amps in China where they can keep the shipping costs down and move the subs and boxes to tn. Very little cost in shipping will allow them to keep the manufacturing here. This also will make warranty work easier and cheaper on shipping wIth dIagnosIng whIch part needs workover the phone and doIng a rma onlt for the parts that need It. Emo can also use 1 amp for all the subs. The only pitfall I can see is the additional drain on already taxed 15a circuits. And missing those sales to those who must have a active sub for either aesthetics or placement issues. sent from my phone. sorry for the short response
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