XMC-1 DAC vs XDA-2 comparison

[weust]

I know this is a bit premature, but I am wondering how well the DAC in de XMC-1 will be compared to the XDA-2.

When the XMC-1 comes out I will be ordering one, but at the moment I have a Logitech SB Touch connected with coax to my current receiver.
And it sounds like it could sound better using a different DAC.

I don't mind waiting for the XMC-1 to come out and then buy a separate DAC, but only if really needed.
So I am wonders what we can expect from its DAC compared to the XDA-2.
How much better can we roughly expect?

[GreenKiwi]

My hope is that the XMC's DAC is "good enough" for my needs.

I'm guessing the XDA-2's DAC and analog processing will be better, but I'm not sure if once I run it through the analog stages of the XMC, I'd notice any difference. Now if I had a HT bypass, I might think about it.

At the same time, if TACT works well (and i've heard 2 CH TACT systems and thought they were very good), then I might want to have TACT all the time and it would seem silly to do

XDA-2 ==> XMC(ADC-->TACT-->DAC)

Might as well just put digital right into the XMC.

[weust]

I am hoping for the same thing.
I own a ERC-2 as well, so it would be interesting to see what a external DAC would do.
Means I could hook the DAC with XLR to the Pre, and have my streamer and CD player connected to the DAC.
But only if it's worth enough.

[nickwin]

I am also very anxious to hear how the XMC-1s DAC stacks up against the ERC ,XDA, and UMC-1. It would be great if someone with some knowledge/experience with the DAC chips in question would post some comments. That said on paper it looks like the ERC-2 and XMC-1 have a superior chip compared to the DSD 1793 in the XMC-1. DSD 1793 has 113db SNR vs 120 dB SNR for the AD 1955 in the ERC-2. To be honest I was a little saddened when I saw the chip that was being used in the XMC. It's definitely not a high end chip, for example the SABRE32 chip used in the Oppo 83se and 95 bluray players has a SNR of 133 db!

My understanding is that implementation and other factors are just as, if not more important than the actual chip choice. The SNR of the actual ERC-2 is >100db so in theory if the 1793 in the XMC-1 was perfectly implemented it could sound better than the ERC-2.

I used to have an ERC-1 that I had hooked up to my UMC via analog and would use direct mode. This sounded pretty amazing to my ears for a pre/pro, but I eventually opted to go all digital and sold the ERC-1 so I could use my sub with 2ch. While I don't think the UMCs digital sound quality is bad, its definitely a step down from the ERC setup (I think a working room correction system would help even the playing field but that's another issue).

Emotiva keeps touting the stereo performance of the XMC, but in most of there statements I feel like the digit side is kind of an afterthought (I remember seeing a lot of "especially the analog section" type statements). I'm pretty confident that the XMC will be a step up from the UMC, but I'm really hoping the digital side is in the same ballpark as the ERC and XDA. If TACT is as good as it sounds that should definitely help. I cant wait to get a XMC in my system and find out!

[hemster]

I was originally going to upgrade from the XDA-1 to an XDA-2. Having listened to the latter at Emofest, it'd be a good upgrade. However there are other factors at play:

The XMC-1 blew me away at Emofest, so upgrade plans to the XDA-2 are now on hold. Then there was also that incredible ProDAC. It really sounded superb. Better than the XDA-2 but with the caveat that the ProDAC was in a treated room, paired with Stealth 8 speakers whereas the XDA-2 was in an office cubicle.

In summary, I'll await the XMC-1, try it out for a while and then decide if I need a DAC, if so it'll most likely be the ProDAC. Now, back to saving a few clams...

[nickwin]

hemster, out of curisity, do you know what DAC chips are being used any the XDA-2 and ProDAC?

And its great to hear that the XMC exceeded your expectations at Emofest. That seems to be the general consensus

[hemster]

Sept 20, 2012 12:50:54 GMT -5 nickwin said:

hemster, out of curisity, do you know what DAC chips are being used any the XDA-2 and ProDAC?

And its great to hear that the XMC exceeded your expectations at Emofest. That seems to be the general consensus

We do not have specific information of the DAC chips in the XDA-2 and ProDAC yet. I'm sure that it's imminent though.

[nickwin]

Well the more I read about this DAC, the more I doubt the XMC-1 is going to meet my digital audio needs On paper it's only marginally better than whats used in the UMC-1. I'm still hoping for great things, but I'm not as confident as I was before.

An external DAC or CDP isn't really a viable option for me because you cant utilize either of those AND use a sub or TacT.

I'm honestly a little perplexed about why Emotiva would put a $2 DAC in the XMC-1, a unit that is suppose to be focused on sq, when a top of the line DAC would only cost $10 more, if that. In the case of the UMC I can understand using a entry level DAC, but not here. Not to mention a higher end DAC would be a big selling point and would most likely improve the audio specs of the entire pre/pro.

I have heard of "fluke" implementations where someone manages to create an excellent sounding unit with a mediocre DAC chip, hopefully this will be one of those cases.

[se7en1]

The PCM1793 seems to be a well regarded DAC even though it's cheap, if the DSD1793 in the XMC is anything like it(the specs say it is) I don't think there is anything to worry about. Implementation of course has to be considered, and obviously when the XMC is in our grubby little hands then we will know for sure how good it really is.

[GreenKiwi]

Cheap isn't necessarily bad, and there's a lot more to getting good signal out than just a DAC. And there's a lot more to picking DACs than just looking at the specs. How easily that DAC can be implemented/connected, does the DAC that is $10 more, require an additional $15-20 of cost to support it.
And does the DAC do things that you're already handling elsewhere. For instance, if you're reclocking all the data, you don't need to have a more expensive DAC that tries to do that again.

Can't wait to see the end product.

[Dark Ranger]

I know this thread is nearly two months old, but I've been thinking along this line the past couple of days. My searching dug up this relevant thread.

Currently, I have an XDA-1 in my bedroom and a UMC-1 in my main HT. I've decided not to upgrade the bedroom XDA-1 to XDA-2 because I'm happy with the sound quality in that system. However, I'd like to improve my two-channel performance beyond what the UMC-1 provides. For multichannel stuff like concerts and movies, I'm still quite satisfied with the UMC-1 performance there. The XMC-1 remains in the cards, but it's not a priority upgrade for me.

My speculation suggests that the XDA-2 would be a little bit better than the XMC-1 when it comes to two-channel sound quality. The thought is, what if I could maximize SQ for stereo sources with the XDA-2, yet retain the UMC-1 (for now) for multichannel sources. Kinda the best of both worlds. Even with the XMC-1 in the system later, I'd be surprised if it matches the two-channel performance of the XDA-2. Again, that is my speculation.

Since my XPA-200 has both RCA and XLR connectors, I would use the XLRs for the XDA-2 output, and then keep the RCA connectors for the UMC-1. It would be a simple matter of flipping the balanced/unbalanced toggle on the back of the amplifier depending on what I want. I rarely use a subwoofer for two-channel listening, so the XDA-2s lack of bass management is not a problem.


Hmm, decisions decisions. Looking forward to the XDA-2 release.

[stephen]

Bump for this thread now that the XMC-1 is out and owners can do direct comparisons!