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DC-1
Dec 10, 2013 11:39:11 GMT -5
Post by brubacca on Dec 10, 2013 11:39:11 GMT -5
The heat sinks on the DC-1 are mostly on the power supply regulators; the linear power supplies in the DC-1 do get a bit warm, but certainly nothing to worry about. It is the regulators that get warm; capacitors themselves (in linear power supplies) don't make significant heat (although they are warmed by their neighbors). Actually, the processors found in most current PCs do generate a lot of heat - and most have rather large heat sinks (some Intel quad-core processors burn in the neighborhood of 100 watts at full crank). However, modern DAC chips in general don't get terribly hot (although some of the older ones did). Looks like I am the ignorant one here. Thanks for the info Keith.
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DC-1
Dec 10, 2013 12:06:58 GMT -5
Post by paintedklown on Dec 10, 2013 12:06:58 GMT -5
The heat sinks on the DC-1 are mostly on the power supply regulators; the linear power supplies in the DC-1 do get a bit warm, but certainly nothing to worry about. It is the regulators that get warm; capacitors themselves (in linear power supplies) don't make significant heat (although they are warmed by their neighbors). Actually, the processors found in most current PCs do generate a lot of heat - and most have rather large heat sinks (some Intel quad-core processors burn in the neighborhood of 100 watts at full crank). However, modern DAC chips in general don't get terribly hot (although some of the older ones did). Well, it looks like we are all in agreement about the heat. Stupid question time here guys: Why would a DAC require heat sinks? What parts in it would get hot enough to require them? I have always (incorrectly, it seems) assumed that DAC chips are kind of like microprocessors found in computers and that surrounding resistors and what have you don't really get hot either. Are the heatsinks more for the headamp section maybe? ***Off to cluelessly look at the pics of the internals of the DC-1*** EDIT: Ok, I am seeing what looks to be two banks of capacitors to the left and right of the heatsink. To the right of it there is a cluster of smaller caps, while on the left, I am seeing a smaller group of larger ones. I know that in amplifiers, caps have the job of storing electricity for sudden demands for more current. Not being educated on this, I would guess that it's the caps that are generating the bulk of the heat, and are what calles for the use of the heatsink? Thanks for the clarification Keith. Your technical info was certainly a big factor in me picking up the DC-1. Knowing more about how it operates, and how it handles the signal (and why things are they way they are) were invaluable in my decision making process.
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DC-1
Dec 10, 2013 20:32:19 GMT -5
Post by sevenfeet on Dec 10, 2013 20:32:19 GMT -5
Hello Emo fans,
I've been following Emotiva as a company since the beginning of their products. Yet despite all of that and even coming over to their offices in Franklin (I live in Nashville) to audition something years ago (and even spent time talking to Dan), I've never actually gotten anything for myself.
Fast forward to now: I've been building a considerable ALAC library on my iTunes server (Windows based, although I'm a Mac guy) over the last few years. I have two home theater focused music zones in my house. And I've recently taken possession of a two channel setup from a friend...equipment that is nearly 20 years old but very nice indeed. It's the two channel room (my living room) that I think I need some DAC help.
My gear is as follows:
Soundwave (later Vero Research) Grand Soliloquy full range towers (rare birds indeed) Audible Illusions Modulus 3 tube pre-amp McCormack DNA 0.5 two channel amp (100 wpc @ 8 ohms) Oppo 970H universal player (from the pre-Blu-Ray days, originally retired from my own home theater) Apple Airport Express 802.11n (2nd generation, wired Ethernet, used strictly for audio, networking is off, analog hookup to the Modulus 3)
You can see my problem at the end. Ever since I got the speakers in house from my friend's place in Atlanta (I had the rest of the gear driving lesser speakers for a while), I've been rediscovering what this rig could do since I first heard it a decade ago. And high definition music is the next step. And yes, the SACDs and DVD-As that had been gathering some dust in my collection have new life. But I have a ton of lossless ripped CDs going back to the mid-80s that I'd like to sound better through this system. And the weak link in the system is definitely the Airport Express. I knew going in that it was hardly an audiophile component. But in recent research, I've discovered how lousy it really is, especially with jitter. In some ways, I suppose the AE acting as an analog source is better than the Toslink problems many have had with it.
So I find myself back at Emotiva finding out that they have made DACs for a little while now. And the DC-1 certainly looks like it's got the goods and as always around here, a nice price to boot. But the DC-1 is only as good as its source, and the source being a Airport Express cannot be that source. The AE is known to downsample all output to the optical output back to 44.1khz/16bit. That's ok for my Redbook stuff. But if I want to expand into higher def material, then I'm screwed. Even worse, the jitter on the AE is known to be so bad that a lot of DACs refuse to talk to it. The previous generation AE was better at jitter and I have access to one, but that doesn't solve my high def music problem.
What I really need the DC-1 to be is a networked music server...something that does Airplay and (secondarily) DLNA, as well as be a regular digital/USB DAC. There are some out there....Pioneer's N-50 for one. Sony has the UDA-1 due sometime soon. Denon has a two year old product and sister company Marantz has the gorgeous but expensive NA-11S1. And there are some others.
The problem is that many of the network players are kind of a black box...you don't get a sense from the documentation that it's going to handle ALAC on all sampling rates (though they will do FLAC and WAV). Even my recent Denon X2000 purchase six months ago only does Airplay up to 24bit/96 khz. The other alternative is to do a Mac-based music server. Right now all of my music and video content is on one server but I could split it up and just do a dedicated music machine. The problem is that getting a Mac Mini to do this will drive up the cost of this little project (ironically I sold one I had a year ago).
Anyway, if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading. So here's what I think my choices are:
1. Emo DC-1 + Mac Mini. Cost $1000 (ouch!)
2. Networked DAC (Sony or Pioneer). Cost ($600-700...cheaper but still ouch!)
3. Wait with my lousy DAC reproduction for a better product for my needs.
Suggestions?
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DC-1
Dec 10, 2013 23:10:54 GMT -5
Post by creimes on Dec 10, 2013 23:10:54 GMT -5
I use a Mac Mini and DC-1 and it's great as my 60" plasma is also a computer screen, you say Mac + DC-1 ouch but I actually think that's not that bad a deal, Apple products are never really cheap hence why I bought the cheapest computer they sell but the DC-1 is a great bargain IMO, but the Mac Mini is not the only computer out there unless you really wanna stick with Apple and the DC-1 is not the only DAC out there but has a very good SQ/cost ratio. I have no experience with the other gear you have mentioned, really comes down to what budget you would like to stay with. Chad
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DC-1
Dec 11, 2013 2:29:29 GMT -5
Post by brystonfan on Dec 11, 2013 2:29:29 GMT -5
I've owned the DC-1 for about a month now and I am very pleased. First of all it allowed me to get rid of 2 more remotes do to it's functionality. I was originally using a PS Audio PWD MK1 DAC in conjunction with a Placette passive Audio control system. After considerable back and forth comparison between the PWD and the DC-1 it became clear that I could not discern the difference between the 2. Since the volume control in the DC-1 is the quality and accuracy of many high end stepped analog controls, I also saw no more need for the Placette passive controller. I have since sold the PWD and the Placette on Ebay and am very glad about the decision. All my music is on a MAC mini (Redbook and HD) and is outputting to the DC-1 via the headphone jack (optical toslink). Normal CD and 24/96 sounds fantastic. I do a lot of listening with headphones Senn. HD650's from the CD-1 thru an Objective2 (NWAVGUY) Headphone amp. or switched thru a Bryston 3bst driving a pair of Jamo C603's. The compact functionality and the sound quality of the DC-1 make it a very unique item. I also utilize the analog input for cable tv sound. Sony Bluray player and Oppo dvd player are HDMI and digital sound is thru the DC-1. I have 2 less remotes I have less cables behind the tv now that everything is digital. Life got simpler!
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DC-1
Dec 11, 2013 3:38:48 GMT -5
Post by garbulky on Dec 11, 2013 3:38:48 GMT -5
I've owned the DC-1 for about a month now and I am very pleased. First of all it allowed me to get rid of 2 more remotes do to it's functionality. I was originally using a PS Audio PWD MK1 DAC in conjunction with a Placette passive Audio control system. After considerable back and forth comparison between the PWD and the DC-1 it became clear that I could not discern the difference between the 2. Since the volume control in the DC-1 is the quality and accuracy of many high end stepped analog controls, I also saw no more need for the Placette passive controller. I have since sold the PWD and the Placette on Ebay and am very glad about the decision. All my music is on a MAC mini (Redbook and HD) and is outputting to the DC-1 via the headphone jack (optical toslink). Normal CD and 24/96 sounds fantastic. I do a lot of listening with headphones Senn. HD650's from the CD-1 thru an Objective2 (NWAVGUY) Headphone amp. or switched thru a Bryston 3bst driving a pair of Jamo C603's. The compact functionality and the sound quality of the DC-1 make it a very unique item. I also utilize the analog input for cable tv sound. Sony Bluray player and Oppo dvd player are HDMI and digital sound is thru the DC-1. I have 2 less remotes I have less cables behind the tv now that everything is digital. Life got simpler! Wow. That placette retails for $1500. And you sold it after the DC-1. That's pretty high praise. Question: what do you think ofd the DC-1 headphone output to the 650's vs the Odac.
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DC-1
Dec 11, 2013 6:41:25 GMT -5
Post by audiobill on Dec 11, 2013 6:41:25 GMT -5
I suppose you've read the original Stereophile review of the AE - bit perfect for 16/44. And the jitter level is negated by use of an external DAC.
I like the combo of a Macbook Air (or really any laptop with an external hard drive (SSD preferably) for a music server, used at the stereo - gives you a great laptop option for your investment.
Bill
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DC-1
Dec 11, 2013 12:55:37 GMT -5
Post by sevenfeet on Dec 11, 2013 12:55:37 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think that the only way to solve my problem long term is to get a Mac Mini and a USB DAC as opposed to a network streaming DAC. With the additional research I've done in the last day, it seems that a lot of Airplay hardware was limited to 16bit/44.1khz operation, including the venerable Airport Express hardware. At least that's for passing the digital signal over the optical connection. It's theoretically possible that the DAC in the AE is processing anything higher res for analog correctly, but that is unlikely too since it seems that iTunes is downrezzing anything sent to these devices on the fly. The Apple TV's optical output can reportedly do 16bit/48 kHz, but it is apparently only getting 16bit/44.1khz from iTunes, regardless of the source recording.
I still haven't figured out if my Denon X2000 receiver is getting any better information from iTunes. I have used it with a USB stick and some sample hi res music and compared it to Redbook counterparts...the difference is obvious in this application. Some of the network streaming DACs, for example the Pioneer Elite N-50 supports ALAC at up to 24/96 with a firmware upgrade, but no word if that works over Airplay. And regardless, that won't be useful for any music I might get at a higher bit rate (like Linn Records recordings).
So despite the extra cost of a system like this, it brings me back to the possibility of using a DC-1 in conjunction with a applicable source. I could probably begin with just the DC-1 and an older Airport Express. The new one is known to be a jitter mess (so bad that many DACs won't lock to it) and I have access to an older one. Then I could add a Mac later.
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Post by brystonfan on Dec 11, 2013 14:14:49 GMT -5
Comment From garbulky Question: what do you think ofd the DC-1 headphone output to the 650's vs the Odac.
I have set the DC-1 headphone response to flat. Although it sounds excellent, there is something that I can't quite put my finger on when comparing it to the O2 amp. I just prefer the O2 ever so slightly. Could be in my head! My O2 amp is a basic build without any of the battery backup or charge circuitry. Comment for audiobill: I agree about the ext. HD for a server. Although not SSD, I use an Iomega 500gb HD for all my music and downloaded HD Youtube videos. Isn't great to get rid of those cumbersome upright CD racks!!
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DC-1
Dec 11, 2013 14:33:39 GMT -5
Post by audiobill on Dec 11, 2013 14:33:39 GMT -5
you bet!
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DC-1
Dec 11, 2013 23:25:36 GMT -5
Post by dean70 on Dec 11, 2013 23:25:36 GMT -5
How would you go running 4xDC-1s via AES from a Lynx AES-16 card for 7.1 surrond?
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DC-1
Dec 12, 2013 2:19:24 GMT -5
Post by GreenKiwi on Dec 12, 2013 2:19:24 GMT -5
That would be a pretty cool system.
you might also be able to simply use them all from JRMC. I don't know if you can pair up multiple sound cards like that, but I think that MC lets you do that.
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DC-1
Dec 12, 2013 16:41:56 GMT -5
Post by dean70 on Dec 12, 2013 16:41:56 GMT -5
JRMC will let you do that from the software side, but would there be any sync problems between dacs?
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DC-1
Dec 12, 2013 16:43:39 GMT -5
Post by dean70 on Dec 12, 2013 16:43:39 GMT -5
JRMC will let you do that from the software side, but would there be any sync problems between dacs? It also gives me a path for an Active speaker setup down the track. I currently use an Asus Xonar ST with H6 card (with custom op-amps) into XPA2/XPA5 pair for 7.1 outs.
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DC-1
Dec 12, 2013 16:55:00 GMT -5
Post by GreenKiwi on Dec 12, 2013 16:55:00 GMT -5
I don't know about sync issues, but I'm guessing that they can provide info over on their forums.
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DC-1
Dec 12, 2013 16:55:23 GMT -5
Post by GreenKiwi on Dec 12, 2013 16:55:23 GMT -5
It could be a super cool setup. I've been tempted to go active with my 3.6s...
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DC-1
Dec 12, 2013 17:45:58 GMT -5
Post by dean70 on Dec 12, 2013 17:45:58 GMT -5
It is keeping the DACs in clock sync so that one or more channels dont gradually drift apart in timing. Does the DC1 use the AES interface as the clock source?
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Post by creimes on Dec 12, 2013 22:07:05 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think that the only way to solve my problem long term is to get a Mac Mini and a USB DAC as opposed to a network streaming DAC. With the additional research I've done in the last day, it seems that a lot of Airplay hardware was limited to 16bit/44.1khz operation, including the venerable Airport Express hardware. At least that's for passing the digital signal over the optical connection. It's theoretically possible that the DAC in the AE is processing anything higher res for analog correctly, but that is unlikely too since it seems that iTunes is downrezzing anything sent to these devices on the fly. The Apple TV's optical output can reportedly do 16bit/48 kHz, but it is apparently only getting 16bit/44.1khz from iTunes, regardless of the source recording. I still haven't figured out if my Denon X2000 receiver is getting any better information from iTunes. I have used it with a USB stick and some sample hi res music and compared it to Redbook counterparts...the difference is obvious in this application. Some of the network streaming DACs, for example the Pioneer Elite N-50 supports ALAC at up to 24/96 with a firmware upgrade, but no word if that works over Airplay. And regardless, that won't be useful for any music I might get at a higher bit rate (like Linn Records recordings). So despite the extra cost of a system like this, it brings me back to the possibility of using a DC-1 in conjunction with a applicable source. I could probably begin with just the DC-1 and an older Airport Express. The new one is known to be a jitter mess (so bad that many DACs won't lock to it) and I have access to an older one. Then I could add a Mac later. Nothing wrong with building a system one piece at a time Chad
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DC-1
Dec 15, 2013 12:14:44 GMT -5
Post by dga on Dec 15, 2013 12:14:44 GMT -5
This is the view from my desk in home office. It's not something I thought about a lot but I'm really digging the form factor. Amp is inside the table with plenty of room for cooling.
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DC-1
Dec 15, 2013 12:17:19 GMT -5
Post by audiobill on Dec 15, 2013 12:17:19 GMT -5
Nice! High WAF!
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