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Post by jdubs on Jan 17, 2013 8:33:18 GMT -5
Does anyone know details on the chip-set in the XDA-2? Is it a dual-differential design or a single chip? What chip is used?
Trying to compare DACs online and I would like to know more. Thanks!
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Post by garbulky on Jan 17, 2013 10:03:06 GMT -5
It's I believe an Analog devices chip and I believe it's the same one as in the xda-1.
However, you should know that most DAC chips have excellent values so half of the performance is from the line stage. Emotiva rates their distortion and SNR figures honestly of the unit as a whole but a lot of DAC manufacturers rate the values of just the DAC chip and not the unit as a whole. So you will see SNR's of 115-125 db when in reality their SNR's aren't anywhere near that value.
Shortened form: Don't trust all DAC specs when comparing DACS online.
Some good DACS are Audio G_D, Woo audio, Wyred 4 sound, lampzilla. Etc.
Part time audiophile and Darko's DAC index have a good selection. However their reviews can get a bit hard to understand with their difference. Darko loves to use food terms without really referincing what that's supposed to mean.
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Post by jdubs on Jan 17, 2013 10:50:58 GMT -5
Thanks for that help.
Last night I did some side by side comparisons of tracks using my cd player (Arcam Dual Differential Wolfson DAC) and just going straight from my Airport Express. Surprisingly similar! Definitely differences, but not as great as what these reviews of DACs would lead you to believe. I feel I can get away with a less expensive DAC than I previouly thought!
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jan 17, 2013 13:50:11 GMT -5
I feel I can get away with a less expensive DAC than I previouly thought! The XDA-1 and now the 2 taught me that is a true statement. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jan 17, 2013 14:12:33 GMT -5
We use the Analog Devices AD1955 DAC chip and the Analog Devices AD1896 asynchronous sample rate converter (ASRC). You can find the data sheets for either easily enough. And you're exactly correct. Most modern DAC chips have excellent specs; it is the circuitry around them (the analog stages, the power supplies, and the clock and interface circuitry) that make the noticeable differences. There are also differences between the actual digital filter characteristics (which are usually built into the DAC these days), which do lead to VERY subtle differences. Our DAC chip has one filter (which we feel is just fine). Some, like the latest Wolfsons, offer a choice of several filters. If you switch back and forth between them you absolutely can hear tiny differences - but, other than giving you something to play with, what's the point? (We're talking about the sort of differences you can barely hear when you switch directly between them, but you almost certainly wouldn't hear if you waited a minute in between. Why not just pick the correct one and leave it alone?) The choice of ASRC is actually more important. The one we use has excellent jitter immunity over the entire audio band, and very low distortion, so it sounds very good. Some other ASRCs actually have very poor jitter immunity, or even none at all. (The technology of ASRCs is interesting; and apparently even some DAC vendors don't quite understand it.) It's I believe an Analog devices chip and I believe it's the same one as in the xda-1. However, you should know that most DAC chips have excellent values so half of the performance is from the line stage. Emotiva rates their distortion and SNR figures honestly of the unit as a whole but a lot of DAC manufacturers rate the values of just the DAC chip and not the unit as a whole. So you will see SNR's of 115-125 db when in reality their SNR's aren't anywhere near that value. Shortened form: Don't trust all DAC specs when comparing DACS online. Some good DACS are Audio G_D, Woo audio, Wyred 4 sound, lampzilla. Etc. Part time audiophile and Darko's DAC index have a good selection. However their reviews can get a bit hard to understand with their difference. Darko loves to use food terms without really referincing what that's supposed to mean. |
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Post by jdubs on Jan 17, 2013 16:59:59 GMT -5
Keith-
Thanks! What a great response from the manufacturer... telling me exactly what I asked rather than blowing smoke. I appreciate it.
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Post by arthurz on Jan 17, 2013 18:43:50 GMT -5
So is there or is there not a practical benefit to using two DAC chips to implement differential signaling?
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Post by jdubs on Jan 17, 2013 19:09:50 GMT -5
I feel like an idiot. I was just looking at this on the Emotiva web-site and the chip specs were right there! Please tell me they weren't there previously, because I swear I had looked.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jan 17, 2013 19:45:37 GMT -5
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Post by jdubs on Jan 22, 2013 12:40:53 GMT -5
So is there or is there not a practical benefit to using two DAC chips to implement differential signaling? I'd like to bring this thread back to life. I was hoping someone would answer arthurz. I had my heart set on a dual-differential design DAC, which is what my CD player is. I'm willing to spend the money (there are a few under $1000.) but don't want to if I don't have to! |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 22, 2013 13:01:21 GMT -5
The xda-2 is a differential (fully balanced) DAC, however it does not have two chips. I don't know the answer to your question.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 22, 2013 13:05:13 GMT -5
Even if there's a theoretical benefit (and I'm not convinced there is), the question is: Does it make an audible difference?
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Post by rjpoint on Jan 22, 2013 14:27:58 GMT -5
Is there any truth that the next shipment of XDA-2's will emplore a different chipset altogether to solve compatability issues
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Post by knickerhawk on Jan 22, 2013 16:31:18 GMT -5
Is there any truth that the next shipment of XDA-2's will emplore a different chipset altogether to solve compatability issues Seems unlikely to me, but I'd be extremely interested in confirming because I'm running out of time on my XDA-2. If my Linux compatibility problems aren't resolvable, I'm going to have to send it back. Emotiva has been completely silent regarding my tech support email on the Linux problem I'm having (which is different from the Windows issue others experienced earlier). As a new Emotiva customer, I've found the forums to be helpful, but the tech support to be a non-existent on this issue. |
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Post by roadrunner on Jan 22, 2013 17:01:16 GMT -5
Is there any truth that the next shipment of XDA-2's will emplore a different chipset altogether to solve compatability issues Seems unlikely to me, but I'd be extremely interested in confirming because I'm running out of time on my XDA-2. If my Linux compatibility problems aren't resolvable, I'm going to have to send it back. Emotiva has been completely silent regarding my tech support email on the Linux problem I'm having (which is different from the Windows issue others experienced earlier). As a new Emotiva customer, I've found the forums to be helpful, but the tech support to be a non-existent on this issue. Did you address your contact to Lonnie Vaughn? This is the type of issue that only Lonnie is likely to have the answer for. If at all possible, I would attempt to reach Lonnie by telephone as E-mail is likely to take longer to resolve an issue and since you are under a time constraint you need to opt for a contact method most likely to get quick results. |
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Post by Jim on Jan 22, 2013 20:02:38 GMT -5
Is there any truth that the next shipment of XDA-2's will emplore a different chipset altogether to solve compatability issues Seems unlikely to me, but I'd be extremely interested in confirming because I'm running out of time on my XDA-2. If my Linux compatibility problems aren't resolvable, I'm going to have to send it back. Emotiva has been completely silent regarding my tech support email on the Linux problem I'm having (which is different from the Windows issue others experienced earlier). As a new Emotiva customer, I've found the forums to be helpful, but the tech support to be a non-existent on this issue. I agree with the previous comment. If you want a quick response - and you need some "discussion" (which you will for Linux junk)....... Call. |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jan 22, 2013 21:32:47 GMT -5
So is there or is there not a practical benefit to using two DAC chips to implement differential signaling? If you can hear a difference between the two, then yes. If not, then there is no practical difference.  |
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Post by arthurz on Jan 22, 2013 21:39:40 GMT -5
So is there or is there not a practical benefit to using two DAC chips to implement differential signaling? If you can hear a difference between the two, then yes. If not, then there is no practical difference. Agreed. Unfortunately I'm not aware of a pair of DACs I might be able to compare that are otherwise identical, but where one is single-ended and the other differential  . |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 22, 2013 21:44:18 GMT -5
I may have heard wrong but I believe the XDA-2 chip does output a dfferential signal even though it is a single chip because it has separate outputs or something like that. Don't quote me on that. Maybe somebody else knows. Calling emotiva would probably get you a more certain answer.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jan 23, 2013 0:40:48 GMT -5
If you can hear a difference between the two, then yes. If not, then there is no practical difference. Agreed. Unfortunately I'm not aware of a pair of DACs I might be able to compare that are otherwise identical, but where one is single-ended and the other differential . Wouldn't it be the same thing if a differential DAC had both balanced and unbalanced outputs? Comparing the two? |
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