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Post by blindsay on Feb 16, 2013 18:35:53 GMT -5
yeah I took the good working tweeter and moved it to the speaker in question and it didn't work there so that told me the crossover is bad on that one to
took the suspected dead tweeter and put it on the working speaker and it still didn't work, so that tweeter is def. bad
moved good tweeter back to good speaker and it works fine.
tweeter is an easy swap, but the crossover is a bit of a pain.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Feb 16, 2013 18:39:04 GMT -5
Did you open the amp up to look for any signs of damage?
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Post by blindsay on Feb 16, 2013 18:45:19 GMT -5
Did you open the amp up to look for any signs of damage? I didn't because I didn't want to risk messing anything up with the warranty, it smells all sorts of awful though.
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 16, 2013 19:07:47 GMT -5
Hey, nice sub :-)
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Post by blindsay on Feb 16, 2013 19:24:11 GMT -5
thanks, its pretty awesome, got a great price on it too don't think the neighbors like it as much as I do haha as soon as I hooked it up I was like bye bye little Dynamo 300's
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Post by Golden Ear on Feb 16, 2013 19:35:35 GMT -5
I just sent you long winded explaination of what I suspect you just experienced. I do not suspect the amps as I had run them on no less than 4 sets of speakers with ZERO problems. Those Polks are known to have sub-par crossover components in them. Do a search and you will see other users with the same problems. I have the next 2 days off and will just be packing for my upcoming move. I can bring over my AE speakers and give those a try on the amps as well as checking out the Polks. Shouldn't be a problem. Let me know! Polk use high quality driver and cabinet but left the crossover so much to desire in quality. Many have mod the crossover and claim it made huge difference.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 16, 2013 20:07:43 GMT -5
yeah I took the good working tweeter and moved it to the speaker in question and it didn't work there so that told me the crossover is bad on that one to took the suspected dead tweeter and put it on the working speaker and it still didn't work, so that tweeter is def. bad moved good tweeter back to good speaker and it works fine. tweeter is an easy swap, but the crossover is a bit of a pain. Geez blindsay, what a stoke of bad luck. I can tell you, from experience, that the resistor on the XO board that protects the tweeter has blown and "may" be the only damage to the crossover. Unfortunately, whatever occurred got your tweeter too. Odd that it took both... If Polk can't help you out under warranty (they may just ship you out a new XO and tweeter, no questions asked), the resistor isn't hard to replace if you are handy with a soldering iron and a pair of snips. I can help you through the process. Definitely give Polk CS a shot first as, I too, have always had very good luck with them. At one time, "Club Polk" members received a discount on replacement parts as well as free expedited shipping. So, if you're not already a member, you might wanna join. Contrary to a comment that was made earlier, Polk didn't use "sub-par" components in the XO (and it is well thought out), but I will say that they didn't use components that would bring out the best that the LSi "can" offer. The components used are "average", but I guess sacrifices were made somewhere to meet a certain price point. To me, I'd rather have higher quality components in the XO than a nice "piano gloss" enclosure, but that's getting off track. The resistor Polk chose is, IMO, under spec'd for the Vifa tweeter that's used. It not only burns out unnecessarily quickly, but also somewhat restrains the performance of the Vifa. As I showed you in your initial thread, I had to rebuild the XOs in my former LSi-9s. Here's a link to a vastly superior Mills resistor that I chose to use. www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=005-3If you choose to upgrade to a better resistor, you'll need to do both XOs.... Here's also a link to the Vifa XT25 tweeter Polk used. They will tell you that their version is "modified", but unless the mounting plate counts (which can be removed and transferred), I have my doubts. www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1016Hope this helps.....
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 16, 2013 20:16:25 GMT -5
I just sent you long winded explaination of what I suspect you just experienced. I do not suspect the amps as I had run them on no less than 4 sets of speakers with ZERO problems. Those Polks are known to have sub-par crossover components in them. Do a search and you will see other users with the same problems. I have the next 2 days off and will just be packing for my upcoming move. I can bring over my AE speakers and give those a try on the amps as well as checking out the Polks. Shouldn't be a problem. Let me know! Polk use high quality driver and cabinet but left the crossover so much to desire in quality. Many have mod the crossover and claim it made huge difference. Bingo...!!! That sums it up pretty well. The quality of the XO components are merely average. And yes, even a modest modification can make a noticeable improvement. Here's my former LSi-9s "modded" XOs...
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Post by audiohead on Feb 16, 2013 20:18:50 GMT -5
doc1963..May God Bless You Sir!!I have been looking for this upgraded crossover for sometime now..Many thanks Sir! for posting this! 8-)it should work as well with the LSi-15's right?
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Post by blindsay on Feb 16, 2013 20:46:14 GMT -5
Thanks doc1963, I have 0 soldering skills so that is out of the question. That said I know someone who is very good at it that resistor you linked, if I wanted a simple upgrade to keep things simple would that work well on my lsi15's?
I saw a couple websites that offered upgraded crossovers but they were like $700 which is almost what I spent on the speakers in the first place... if I could find someone or get someone to upgrade them for a couple hundred id do that. The other thing is I wouldn't want them so big they couldn't fit in the enclosure anymore.
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Post by davidas6350 on Feb 16, 2013 20:49:42 GMT -5
Is upgrading the crossover on the LSi15 necessary to prevent failure even if it's properly driven? Meaning... using an amp with enough power to avoid clipping, and also not using that power to drive it to insane volume.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 16, 2013 21:27:28 GMT -5
Thanks doc1963, I have 0 soldering skills so that is out of the question. That said I know someone who is very good at it that resistor you linked, if I wanted a simple upgrade to keep things simple would that work well on my lsi15's? I saw a couple websites that offered upgraded crossovers but they were like $700 which is almost what I spent on the speakers in the first place... if I could find someone or get someone to upgrade them for a couple hundred id do that. The other thing is I wouldn't want them so big they couldn't fit in the enclosure anymore. Yes, it's "over spec" compared to the original, but it will work beyond fine and is superior quality. The tweeter will "open up", so you would need to do both. If you choose to do this (or have your friend do it), DO NOT attempt to remove the 5W sand block resistor you're replacing. It is heavily glued to the board and you will likely break a trace if you try to remove it. Simply snip the leads right at the ends of the block, glue the new resistor to the top of the old and solder the leads. Really not all that hard... Do give Polk a shot first....
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Post by villock on Feb 16, 2013 21:29:47 GMT -5
Hey blindsay, sucks that this has happened to your speakers. doc1963 is correct. If you are a Club Polk member, just mention it when you order from them and they will give you a 10% discount on parts. Also here is a link to a guy from Club Polk who does excellent work. He can replace both reisitors for $40.00, hope this helps www.vr3mods.com/RepLSiFix.html
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 16, 2013 21:37:38 GMT -5
Is upgrading the crossover on the LSi15 necessary to prevent failure even if it's properly driven? Meaning... using an amp with enough power to avoid clipping, and also not using that power to drive it to insane volume. Nope, not at all. The key is "properly driven". It's also important to understand how "properly driven" relates to the LSi ... The LSi has a rated nominal impedance of 4 ohms. However, they can (and do) operate below the nominal rating. Dips as low as 2 ohms are not uncommon. Driving speaker with demanding, or "difficult", loads requires an amp that can stand up to the instantaneous demands of such a load without driving itself into clipping. This can occur even if you "think" your not playing material at "insane levels". Watts per channel aside, look for an amp with both a very robust power supply and ample secondary capatance. Excellent examples would be the XPA-1 and XPA-2 (although others may suffice). The "elite" XPR series would drive your washing machine, but (unless money is no object) would be overkill. Blindsay is using a very capable amp in the UPA-1. I don't know what happened there, but I can say that it's not related to amp/speaker synergy. IMO, more likely a failure within the amp.
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Post by blindsay on Feb 16, 2013 21:40:04 GMT -5
Thanks doc1963, I have 0 soldering skills so that is out of the question. That said I know someone who is very good at it that resistor you linked, if I wanted a simple upgrade to keep things simple would that work well on my lsi15's? I saw a couple websites that offered upgraded crossovers but they were like $700 which is almost what I spent on the speakers in the first place... if I could find someone or get someone to upgrade them for a couple hundred id do that. The other thing is I wouldn't want them so big they couldn't fit in the enclosure anymore. Yes, it's "over spec" compared to the original, but it will work beyond fine and is superior quality. The tweeter will "open up", so you would need to do both. If you choose to do this (or have your friend do it), DO NOT attempt to remove the 5W sand block resistor you're replacing. It is heavily glued to the board and you will likely break a trace if you try to remove it. Simply snip the leads right at the ends of the block, glue the new resistor to the top of the old and solder the leads. Really not all that hard... Do give Polk a shot first.... I will def. give polk a shot, I have a feeling something was defective as this literally happened the moment the amp clicked on, before any music even started playing. Thanks for that link villock. at least if I cant get it fixed under warranty then I can get it fixed cheap, or it might be good to do that anyways.
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Post by villock on Feb 16, 2013 21:44:26 GMT -5
Yes, it's "over spec" compared to the original, but it will work beyond fine and is superior quality. The tweeter will "open up", so you would need to do both. If you choose to do this (or have your friend do it), DO NOT attempt to remove the 5W sand block resistor you're replacing. It is heavily glued to the board and you will likely break a trace if you try to remove it. Simply snip the leads right at the ends of the block, glue the new resistor to the top of the old and solder the leads. Really not all that hard... Do give Polk a shot first.... I will def. give polk a shot, I have a feeling something was defective as this literally happened the moment the amp clicked on, before any music even started playing. Thanks for that link villock. at least if I cant get it fixed under warranty then I can get it fixed cheap, or it might be good to do that anyways. No problem. Hope this is as painless as possible. Did you register these on line? IIRC the warranty is 5 years on those Polks. If you are under warranty, then I am sure that Polk CS will take care of you, if not then you have some inexpensive options between the resistor and the link for the tweeter that doc gave you. Also what about the amp? Didn't you say that it smelled real bad?
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Post by blindsay on Feb 16, 2013 21:54:38 GMT -5
I will def. give polk a shot, I have a feeling something was defective as this literally happened the moment the amp clicked on, before any music even started playing. Thanks for that link villock. at least if I cant get it fixed under warranty then I can get it fixed cheap, or it might be good to do that anyways. No problem. Hope this is as painless as possible. Did you register these on line? IIRC the warranty is 5 years on those Polks. If you are under warranty, then I am sure that Polk CS will take care of you, if not then you have some inexpensive options between the resistor and the link for the tweeter that doc gave you. Also what about the amp? Didn't you say that it smelled real bad? yeah the amp smells horrible, event this many hours later. I will have to send it to emotiva
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Post by Golden Ear on Feb 16, 2013 22:05:32 GMT -5
Crossover is perhaps the most expensive component in the speakers. Polk Lsi uses their best technology in speaker cone and geometry but left the crossover in poor quality. This what hamper the performance of LSI. Superior driver with low quality crossover don't make sense. The crossover on B&W are in high quality electrolytic type and minimalist instead of film caps.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 16, 2013 22:15:55 GMT -5
Crossover is perhaps the most expensive component in the speakers. Polk Lsi uses their best technology in speaker cone and geometry but left the crossover in poor quality. This what hamper the performance of LSI. Superior driver with low quality crossover don't make sense. The crossover on B&W are in high quality electrolytic type and minimalist instead of film caps. In poor quality compared to the rest of the design, yes I would agree. The crossovers are well thought out and technically spec'd, but when it came to putting actual parts on the boards, ehhh, not so much..... I'll just say, without sounding like I'm trashing the LSi, that for their "flagship" speaker, they could have (and should have) done better. I know, first hand, what they are capable of with some "quality" put into the critical paths of the XO. I didn't rebuild from scratch and I stayed with the same cap values. Since I use a sub, I didn't bother with what affected the lowest frequencies. What I "did" do costs a total of $120 for the pair. The difference it made was well worth the money spent and the time invested. The "stock" LSi is nice sounding speaker. That's why I bought them. But to hear a nicely "modded" version takes them to another level. Probably right where they should have been. Now, to those who read this and think that they need to run out and "mod" the XOs... If you are currently pleased with the way your LSi sounds, PLEASE DON'T...!!! If you're a tweaker and have the time and money to invest, then by all means give it a try someday. You might be surprised to find a completely revived LSi... The only mod that I would whole heatedly recommend to any LSi owner (regardless of model) is the "resistor mod" that I referred to earlier. The link that Villock posted is very helpful and the price is extremely reasonable (although I personally prefer the Mills resistor that I linked above)
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Post by GreenKiwi on Feb 16, 2013 22:28:09 GMT -5
Did you open the amp up to look for any signs of damage? I didn't because I didn't want to risk messing anything up with the warranty, it smells all sorts of awful though. I think that as long as all you are doing is popping the cover off and taking a look, there shouldn't be any warranty issues.
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