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Post by dougc on Jan 8, 2014 23:24:44 GMT -5
Remember we all started learning about gain stage when, We went to record something on our cassette decks and touched that level dial. Under modulated, good, or over modulated. Finding that perfect level was the quest!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2014 0:14:16 GMT -5
Yeah the caps can make a humongous difference. I do not follow on the what goes in digital comes out digital. There are EQ devices that take analog inputs and then encoded into binary then applies EQ and comes back out either digital or analog. I am confused a bit, I am not sure if you think I am referring to recording with gain staging. The point that converts from digital to analog electrical signals (very low volume) (The DAC), then amplified in the process to line level before being sent to the power amps is what I am referring to as the gain stage. Issues with digital eq besides chopping electrical signals into digital again after the computer already had it digital, and back out into electrical signals, is that the the eq may have a crummy output section/gain stage back into electrical form for the next component (in my case the power amps.) Not only is that an issue to me, there is issues with getting more than 2 channels out to make 5.1 due to how digital signals work with computers and the digital EQ devices. It is like chopping the signal up piece by piece, not good. This is why I went with analog EQ devices. It would help if I knew if there was a confusion on your end, I think I am missing something that you either are trying to imply or teach me, or perhaps have misinterpreted from me, who knows lol. I am simply trying to run PCM signals (atm I want PCM 5.1@96khz) over HDMI from my computer into some form of DAC with a great output stage/gain stage, then into the eq devices, then right off to the power amps. Right now I think my weakest piece is my point that converts digital into analog sound (my pc audio card, before that I used the Denon that was horrible at it). This is where I want to offload the digital audio into an Oppo and let it convert into analog and amplify it really clean. The digital form of audio transfer via HDMI will allow the audio to transport to the Oppo without any electrical issues injected into the analog stage, compared to now the audio card in my PC is converting to analog and has some computer chatter sounds. In the end, it is all analog when it hits the speakers. Storage methods of analog vs digital are apples to oranges and have different characteristics which cannot be compared, pros and cons. - Tyler Oppo BDP-105 inside. The left hand side is 7.1ch analog outputs with a DAC, and the right hand side board is 2ch XLR or RCA utilizing another DAC, but can both be used at the same time for multichannel use with separated DAC's . (Caps and analog outputs) -> www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=nrL3uxVJn3XiNM&tbnid=jEMS4oeAR5JfsM:&ved=0CAUQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avguide.com%2Fsites%2Fnext-tech-guide%2Ffiles%2FBDP-105-Top-hr.jpg&ei=EEPOUomzB8zyoASepIL4DA&psig=AFQjCNFVdsPFAFblpcbXMWRk-yuBBWbK-Q&ust=1389335696158878
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Post by dougc on Jan 9, 2014 10:17:50 GMT -5
Tyler never mind about the Eq. part, I wrote about. It does not apply to this situation or topic at hand. I was referring to the 7.1 Equalizer that I was telling you about. That we are developing at my work.
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Post by Btbw on Jan 19, 2014 9:53:49 GMT -5
hi here,
i order a few ago a pack umc 200 + upa 500,
to drive my new focal 826v + cc700 and 2 sib as surround (my old onkyo 616 start to be to weak to drive all of them ...)
but i start to think .... do i change my order to replace the upa 500 by a 700 ?
i think the upa 700 in a 5 channels configuration give more power to each channel than the 500, no ?
This "gain" will be perceptible ?
exept this power difference, something else is different between those two amp (options, treatment ... ?) ?
thx.
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Post by dougc on Jan 22, 2014 0:11:02 GMT -5
Btbw, going with the 700 opposed to the 500 will give you a little more power and more headroom. The larger transformer will give you more oomph on demand. Not to mention give you the option add a couple more surrounds later, or Bi-wire your mains if you choose. Doug
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Post by neo20013 on Jan 22, 2014 4:49:08 GMT -5
The extra power of the 700 may benefit your full range focal, for only 100$ more.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 5:45:48 GMT -5
Yes go with the 700, bigger transformer (power handling) and extra channels even if you don't use them. I found an amp in storage that was nice, so I only run 2 surrounds on my UPA-700, with a center channel on an xpa-200. The transformer is the meat of the unit . If you under achieve at what you want, it will cost you way more in the long run to swap gear around than to have just put the $100 bucks into it at the start.
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Post by dougc on Jan 22, 2014 22:26:23 GMT -5
tiwer1, Any progress on your project yet ? Back to work now, what a relief.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 3:31:15 GMT -5
I hadn't forgot to write back, been doing little things, tons of things here and there . That is AWESOME that you got work back, same place I take it? Good for you, that is a major relief and am thankful you got that back. The ML's should be repaired fri or saturday perhaps. I am hoping to go pick them up Saturday and get back to my multichannel, and let them break in the replaced tweeters a bit. The opamp swap was a huge change (Seriously cleaned treble up/smooth and more articulate with treble scratch sound removed)in my audio card for FL and FR channels. I am waiting to see if I will have any monies for future projects, so the other useful gear I am putting on hold until it sorts out. For now my opamp change was big enough to live with and be satisfied. I think I have almost hit the point of minimal returns, just working out whatever kinks in the chain that I can find. The rest would be room treatment, but I am staying with EQ devices because if I ever change location then I can just tune it back without wrecking walls and carrying panels haha. My plans "would" be a NHT B-12d (sealed/tighter response), Martin Logan Motion 15's for rears, and least important now, is changing to a different gain stage than the audio card, which would be the Oppo-BDP 105. I think that each piece to that plan would make a decent difference, with a matching speaker set as my priority for value/looks/same timbre reasons. I am already blown away by the quality that I am receiving, it is beyond my belief, and am so grateful to have learned what I have in the last two years alone, in this area of knowledge. Super excited.
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Post by dougc on Jan 23, 2014 21:52:08 GMT -5
Sounds like a great plan, and congrats. on your success. Are they going to extend the warranty on your speakers? Yes, same work place, hopefully for another year at least. My equalizer proto type is almost complete. We have 6 major companies lined up, interested in selling it with their name on it. Samsung, LG, and Audio Control are a few top contenders. The others I can't mention at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 15:01:31 GMT -5
The warranty still applies but not extended beyond normal. I might be able to get them picked up in the next few days. Awesome on that EQ construction, sounds awesome fun!
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Post by dougc on Jan 28, 2014 22:51:30 GMT -5
That's bologna about the warranty. It should renewed from the time of your repairs. About the Eq. It hasn't been that much fun. I designed it, handed it over to the TDI group to make it and I have been pretty much out of the loop since. Hopefully they are building what I designed. It will be the first Eq. like it in existence as far as I Know. At this point I'm hoping I at least get one. Remember I'm only a temp, and not an actual employee of the company.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 11:37:15 GMT -5
I guess I wrote too much lol. I am not sure if the warranty was extended, which i stated otherwise and is my mistake. I am going to guess that it is extended. I haven't had them but maybe a year. Drivers are not too expensive to swap, blown up prices in a box package ya know . I hope you get to keep one and that they award you one, even as a temp. Dang, that is still freaking awesome man! I should know in a few months if my financial situation will be okay or stay bad.
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Post by dougc on Feb 7, 2014 21:36:39 GMT -5
Hopefully your fiancés will get better, you just gotta have faith. My wife is doing our taxes tomarrow, I'll find out wether I get to buy the UMC 200 or not.
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Post by dougc on Feb 9, 2014 21:31:28 GMT -5
Should be ordering the UMC 200 with in a couple weeks !!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 23:45:03 GMT -5
Awesome Doug! . That is good news! I am going to play with REW aka Room EQ Wizard for a bit here since the tweeters are replaced and because I am using a different opamp, not sure if anything changes on frequency response. Definitely excited to hear your review on here for the UMC-200
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Post by dougc on Feb 11, 2014 20:10:56 GMT -5
Yea I'll have to pick up a db.meter from the Shack. And order a calibrated mic from Partsexpress for the REW.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 20:35:19 GMT -5
Nice . I can help you out with REW if you have questions. The only use for a dB meter with REW is to have the dB matched in REW with the stand alone meter. You can actually just skip and have the dB be innacurate if you wish, as the frequencies show up the same just at a different dB on the chart. If you actually want a dB meter though, definitely go for it. You can get more accurate with REW for channel volume as REW gives you the entire frequency range and volume throughout it, and a meter would just be part of the spectrum in one number. There is a dB meter function in REW, it just won't be the same number unless you match it to a stand alone dB meter. I think REW only does 2 channels at once and doesn't target beyond 2.0 audio layouts, unless I'm mistaken. The External multichannel analog inputs on the UMC-200 don't go through EQ or any digital filters so avoid those. As far as doing EQ beyond 2.0 layout with REW, I have two ideas for you which one of them will work. 1-Use REW with any form of digitial audio cable into the UMC-200. Power off all gear, use only the Front Left channel preout from the UMC-200 into the power amp and unplug all other preout cables on both preamp and power amp. Do your EQ work on that channel, write the settings down. Shut off all gear again, move that Front Left preout to another channel, repeat, until you get all channels written down for settings. 2-If no digital cable option available from laptop/computer, plug a headphone cable to left and right RCA and plug it into an analog input on UMC-200, just not the External multi channel inputs, do the FL preout thing as described in option "1". This should get you your EQ for every speaker written down and charted in REW as well. Plug everything back as a daily driver and plug your settings from the paper into the respective channel. Digital option number "1" is preferable if you can do either, as it would use the gain stage in the UMC-200 instead of the computers gain stage. hard lifting right there but got you a way to work with it. Oh BTW, for sure, you want a mic that you can use with a tripod, or you will have frequencies absorbed by material or reflected into the microphone, big no no, made a night and day difference when I ran Audyssey for the Denon I used to have. If need be money wise, get creative, I used a baseball bat jammed into the center of an olympic barbell weight, and taped the mic onto the top of the bat haha. Whatever supports the microphone needs to not be big, you want it completely open for the mic to hear, as in dont set it on a couch cushion or on a table, have it suspended above surfaces in the open.
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Post by dougc on Feb 12, 2014 22:38:00 GMT -5
I don't know about REW going past 2.0 audio layout?!"_+ I am using it to dial in the on-board equilizers (FL&R, Center, SL&R). I believe they also use it, to dial in the bass management for all the speaker. I don't know what all, I am learning. I was waiting till I found out whether I was even going to be able to buy it or not before waisting a whole lot of time. Chers Doug.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 3:22:19 GMT -5
"I don't know about REW going past 2.0 audio layout", meant that REW only outputs a left and right channel signal. the signal is just a frequency sweep so you can use that on any speaker for 7.1 layout. What you have to do to get sound from anything beyond FL/FR with REW because of its software limitation (can't select 7.1 and choose which speakers), is to move around your FL channel preout cable around on the power amp side of things, to what channel you want to EQ with. If you wanted to run REW on a Surround Right, you would take the FR cable out of the preamp and processor in the meantime, and move the FL preout...into the Surround right amp channel that you use. write down your EQ settings, as it will still be running on the FL preout in the UMC-200. Once you have all of your channels finished, plug stuff in as normal use, and enter the settings once and for all for each channel into the UMC-200. REW is stuck to L and R, and you cannot copy L and R to every channel including the subwoofer, so you must move cables. If it is confusing ask me what you are confused on.
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