|
Post by dougc on Mar 11, 2013 23:20:35 GMT -5
Take one tweeter and put it back to original wiring and put 3ohms of resistance on the pos. side. Test L/R comparision. Get back to me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 11:04:51 GMT -5
Would this be correct if I had three? I could order online but am really low on money atm and 8 dollars shipping for a single resistor is just not going to happen lol. They are in stock a few miles away. If radio shack has anything better than this in store and it is in stock, I would rather pay for it locally tbh. Thanks . Could I try the 2 pack and see what happens? I am assuming the correct way would be to have one resistor? www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062290&filterName=Type&filterValue=Power+resistors
|
|
|
Post by dougc on Mar 12, 2013 19:40:52 GMT -5
Would this be correct if I had three? I could order online but am really low on money atm and 8 dollars shipping for a single resistor is just not going to happen lol. They are in stock a few miles away. If radio shack has anything better than this in store and it is in stock, I would rather pay for it locally tbh. Thanks . Could I try the 2 pack and see what happens? I am assuming the correct way would be to have one resistor? www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062290&filterName=Type&filterValue=Power+resistorsc Correct 1 would be best and correct. But thats why I suggested the Shack because you can buy the 2 pack of 1ohms for like $1.19 approx. its a cheap experiment. Start adding 1 at a time until desired autenation, then you know if that is the problem or what ohm you need. This will reduce the db's on the top end of the tweeter range and should also decrease or eliminate the scratchiness. I still think you'll need 3. If it still sounds better reversed but to loud you can try the resistors that way too. Just make sure to connect to + side of tweet. Should look like this -=-=-=- when done.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 20:00:14 GMT -5
Awesome, I will have to go pick some up sometime soon hopefully. Have a few other things that are going on for a bit, and money wise. But I will try this either way in time and write back, hopefully within a weeks time . Reversing Polarity made the scratchy sound go away completely...completely. It did get affected in the bass section and also the center imaging, but for the moment, it is much more desired over how it had been originally. There was music genres that I could just not tolerate over 30 seconds at a decently mid volume beforehand.
|
|
|
Post by dougc on Mar 12, 2013 21:39:37 GMT -5
Awesome, I will have to go pick some up sometime soon hopefully. Have a few other things that are going on for a bit, and money wise. But I will try this either way in time and write back, hopefully within a weeks time . Reversing Polarity made the scratchy sound go away completely...completely. It did get affected in the bass section and also the center imaging, but for the moment, it is much more desired over how it had been originally. There was music genres that I could just not tolerate over 30 seconds at a decently mid volume beforehand. sounds good, let me know.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 22:07:06 GMT -5
Will do. I may go down tomorrow and depending on price, pick up a total of 4 resistors to give more ability to make sure I get enough of an effect for testing. It says in stock for the location that I would go to, just not how many 2 packs that they have. What would be a time and cost effective way to test the resistors out, electrical tape? I have Electrical tape here. I understand what to do otherwise, thanks . Of course not tape over the resistor haha. This cheap tinkering might be the most cost effective fun experience of learning I have had in quite some time haha
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 13:21:04 GMT -5
I picked up two packs of 2 (1Ohm - 10 watts), of the ones that I linked a few posts prior. I am glad that I did get more. I am using 3 ohms of resistance and it may need more, so I am going to try adding my last one and see what happens. I did side by side, reverse polarity on left channel, resistors on the right. So far this is making it much better than reversed polarity (freq spectrum feels more consistent, maybe even less harshness). If say 3 ohms resistance with 3 of the 1ohm resistors at 10 watts a resistor, what would be an equivalent for a single resistor? Is 3 resistors going to sound different for harshness compared to one resistor, meaning I would need extra on a single? I will let you know when I figure out which resistance works best. 3ohms atm and going to try the fourth but it might be too much, not sure yet. Will post back. Thanks again.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 14:10:16 GMT -5
Okay here we go. I do use the speaker grills because the speakers look less expensive with them off. I live in an arrangement by myself, no pets or kids, to allow not using grills. If I nice speakers in here, grills would be taken off and stored. The grills lower the harshness a pinch. Since I had 4 resistors at 1ohm 10 watts, I split it up 2 per speakers, normal polarity, speaker grills on. Almost listenable at pretty loud volumes even with guitar distortion type tracks from vinyl recordings. A non vinyl copy of skrillex as another screecher test, was near perfect. I have a pinch of shrill left at the very very top end, which is not all of the time even in those songs. 2 ohms seems to be close. 3ohms seemed a pinch too much without the speaker grill on when I did reverse polarity on the left, and normal polarity with resistors on the right. When going to a single resistor, do I have to make anything up as there is fewer resistors? Like extra ohms, extra wattage. My speakers are normally 8 ohms, and 93dB sensitivity if my memory is correct on the second part. I am thinking about going for these, but wanted your input first and will wait. I think it would probably be a perfect balance for using grills or not using grills. www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=004-2.4
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 18:21:58 GMT -5
Been playing random music genres for a bit. I am not sure whether to keep it at 2 ohm resistance for the final, but with one resistor a speaker. There is some scratch there, but almost entirely gone. I have no idea if I should go for 2 ohm as a median for different genres, not favoring any in particular, but sounding pretty good on anything tbh. It is either 2 ohms or 2.4 ohms, stuck in a rut haha. Any opinions are welcome.
|
|
|
Post by dougc on Mar 13, 2013 20:16:22 GMT -5
Been playing random music genres for a bit. I am not sure whether to keep it at 2 ohm resistance for the final, but with one resistor a speaker. There is some scratch there, but almost entirely gone. I have no idea if I should go for 2 ohm as a median for different genres, not favoring any in particular, but sounding pretty good on anything tbh. It is either 2 ohms or 2.4 ohms, stuck in a rut haha. Any opinions are welcome. I would try the 2.4 you had listed. Call Parts Express and find out if they are going to charge shipping on 1 resistor. Usually not. If not it's a cheap experiment!!! If so hard call. Also try this on your surrounds , with them being 2-ways it's prob going to be different.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 20:54:06 GMT -5
Sweet. I was planning on paying for 7 resistors to offset the shipping cost if that makes sense. i am hoping that 2.4 ohms is the sweet spot. 2 ohms is almost enough but a pinch too loud on tweeter vs the rest. Minor tinny sound is left. I have no idea if there is a difference in one vs two resistors. Any idea on 1 vs 2 resistors effect?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 22:01:17 GMT -5
Going to order 7 of 2.4 ohms 10W resistors right now, and will update you when I figure out how it sounds, per speaker. If it is too much resistance I will order the 2 ohms 10W and get those put in. Thanks
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,928
|
Post by KeithL on Mar 13, 2013 23:57:34 GMT -5
You're sort of mixing apples and oranges. A speaker phasing test is used to determine if one of your speakers is out of phase with the other. If that happens, you will hear a lack of bass, and the imaging will be awful (things that should be in the center will sound like they're somewhere around the side - or in your head - it's weird and pretty distinctive. This is what happens if you get the red and black reversed on ONE speaker of the pair. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the tweeters in each speaker are in proper phase with the woofers. If the tweeter and woofer in each speaker are "out of phase" then you will usually experience a "hole" at the crossover point - a dip in response around that frequency. HOWEVER, the "phase" we're talking about is electrical phase. Depending on the crossover, the crossover may shift the phase quite a bit, as may how they are mounted in the cabinet. You may quite possibly end up with the tweeters being electrically correct when they are wired "backwards" (with the + and - terminals of the tweeter reversed in relation to the woofer). It takes measurement equipment or a very good ear to determine this. DO NOT assume that the tweeters are "wired wrong" just because their terminals are reversed. The "test" for this is a standard frequency response sweep. garbulky - The "speaker phase test", if played back in the correct phase, should sound like there is a center channel correct, and the out of phase sounds like you hear the speakers to the sides? That is how I am perceiving this. Thanks for the link, and help.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 0:04:33 GMT -5
I did hear the distinction when I ran the speakers with reversed polarity. It sounded like each speaker was on its own, removal of the center image, as well as a missing emphasis between the tweeter and midrange. I have put the polarity back to normal and have 2 ohms resistance on the left and right fronts. I ordered (7) 2.4 ohm resistors and am planning on swapping the (2) 1 ohm resistors in each speaker. Might be possible that you hopped over the part about me putting the polarity back to factory, but its no big deal, I am very humble, and thanks man! . I will post back the results when I swap resistors. So far the 2 ohm resistance is sounding superb with correct phase wiring.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 0:07:09 GMT -5
*2.4 ohm resistance on each of the 7 channels, my writing was confusing :b
|
|
|
Post by dougc on Mar 14, 2013 22:33:38 GMT -5
You're sort of mixing apples and oranges. A speaker phasing test is used to determine if one of your speakers is out of phase with the other. If that happens, you will hear a lack of bass, and the imaging will be awful (things that should be in the center will sound like they're somewhere around the side - or in your head - it's weird and pretty distinctive. This is what happens if you get the red and black reversed on ONE speaker of the pair. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the tweeters in each speaker are in proper phase with the woofers. If the tweeter and woofer in each speaker are "out of phase" then you will usually experience a "hole" at the crossover point - a dip in response around that frequency. HOWEVER, the "phase" we're talking about is electrical phase. Depending on the crossover, the crossover may shift the phase quite a bit, as may how they are mounted in the cabinet. You may quite possibly end up with the tweeters being electrically correct when they are wired "backwards" (with the + and - terminals of the tweeter reversed in relation to the woofer). It takes measurement equipment or a very good ear to determine this. DO NOT assume that the tweeters are "wired wrong" just because their terminals are reversed. The "test" for this is a standard frequency response sweep. garbulky - The "speaker phase test", if played back in the correct phase, should sound like there is a center channel correct, and the out of phase sounds like you hear the speakers to the sides? That is how I am perceiving this. Thanks for the link, and help. Keith, First off apples & oranges really ? Who's calling the kettle black. I mean really. Nothing was ever mentioned about reversing the wires going from the amp to the speakers. The topic was the + vs - on the tweeter wires. If you would have read the last 10-15 post it would have been pretty evident. I don't mean to be rude, but come on. You did the same thing on one of my post on EMO ZINE. You were telling me how my 140w AVR is a 3,2,2 configuration after I clearly stated 100x5 not 140x7. Please do us all a favor and read before you respond. It's like critiquing a book without reading it first. A frequency sweep is nice if you have the equipment. But I am 60% deaf and I can even hear the difference. What did they do before electronic devices? They used their ears. Sorry no disrespect, The apples and oranges just got under my skin lol.
|
|
|
Post by dougc on Mar 14, 2013 23:28:14 GMT -5
*2.4 ohm resistance on each of the 7 channels, my writing was confusing :b It's all good. Did you try the resistors on the rear? It should be the same results , but with them being 2-way opposed to 3 there may be a difference. You should really check out Parts Express web site. Also ask for a cataloge when you order. They will put you on their mailing list and you'll get their sales flyers every other month.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 1:44:29 GMT -5
He is just trying to help, even though he did skip some posts, oh well . He could have egged a war on instead. lol. I did not try the resistors on the rears, for a (simple?) reason. I had gotten what seemed to sound like the exact effect result as the front speakers, when I ran the rear/sides as reversed polarity in the tweeters. ATM I have all tweeters with reversed polarity, minus the Left and Right channel are normal polarity at 2 ohms resistance temporarily (until the partsexpress order arrives of 7 resistors at 2.4 ohms 10 watts each). I ordered some rubber feet not long ago from there, for decoupling speakers, so I already had an account. The reason for the reversed polarity on the other speakers, is that the harshness was just eating at me in the tweeters, even though I now have a bit of a frequency dropoff from it. I will keep up to date with you. For some reason I am having a slow delivery to the carrier with partsexpress and an item on amazon, taking like 2 days to get to the carrier, which is completely rare, I order online a whole lot and cannot remember the last time that it has happened. Guess I hit a bit of dirt this time around, but all is well, I have patience. I may go look at some speakers this weekend. I want to compare some Totem speakers to Martin Logan Motion 40's. I have not heard either. I plan on upgrading the fronts within a years time, just not sure to what quite yet. I will keep you updated on the resistors and results. So far 2 ohms is working great on the fronts on the temporary hookup, but a pinch bright perhaps. If the 2.4 ohms are too much I will just order the 2 ohm 10 watts and have it match what is atm temporary.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 1:57:15 GMT -5
Also keep in mind, that most of the speaker components are universal amongst this 7.1 set of speakers, so I am not expecting too much variation, outside of cabinet size/resonance, etc. I was not expecting padding inside of the speakers, but the speakers have them . Again, you hit the nail on the head about the bookshelf sized tweeters, I am pretty darn sure they are the same part as the bookshelf speakers have, and even the center :S. I guess they really slapped things together for mass production and a low parts list, hence the prices that these were actually selling for. I liked these better than models costing near twice the price when I tested some, but had they leveled off this tweeter issue from the start, they would have had a much better and even sounding speakers (in my opinion). From the Emotiva amps, speaker placement away from the wall, decoupling, resistors, dB level trims adjusted, room dampening, I have probably had 4 to five different sets of speakers out of this single set, due to how the speakers change up in response haha . I love it! Thank you so much for this learning experience, anxious but happy to wait for the resistors to find what is held from me! haha.
|
|
|
Post by komarfamily on Mar 15, 2013 2:58:15 GMT -5
Hi emowners I have an upa 700 and umc-1 am only using 5 channels so I'd like to biamp my front speakers. I didn't find it in the manual which channels to use for biamping. Are there any pictures/videos available as a guide? Thanks
|
|