fatone
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 7
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Post by fatone on Apr 25, 2013 8:17:05 GMT -5
I am planning on getting an XPA-5 amp to complement my Denon 4520CI receiver. My current setup is B&W CM9 speakers in the front, B&W CM2 speaker for center channel, B&W CM5 speakers in the rear, and a Def. Tech. SuperCube 4000 for a sub.
From reading on forums, some suggest only hooking up the front speakers to XPA-5, others say do the front, center and rear. My question to the forum is what is the best setup with the current configuration? Also, should this system work fine with a room space of about 15 ft by 30 ft
Thanks in advance!
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Post by fsubales on Apr 25, 2013 8:41:00 GMT -5
Run all 5 channels (L,R,C,LB,RB) off your XPA-5, and your sub from your LFE. It will sound fantastic in your room.
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nuz1
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by nuz1 on Apr 25, 2013 11:13:47 GMT -5
Fatone,
If you do pull the trigger, please report back. I have a very similar theater setup with a 4520 powering CM series in 7.1. I have toyed with the idea of a separate amp for at least the 3 main channels. But with a rated 150 watts from the receiver (9 separate amps), I've wondered how much I would really gain without stepping up to the XPR series. (In fact, given normal listening, I wonder how much difference that would make)
Having just bought the 4520 and a new TV, I need to save up befor the next splurge. But until then, I would be happy to live vicariously through you and hear your thoughts on the sound difference. And as others will say, the good news is there is a great return policy...
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Post by TUGA Audiophile on Apr 25, 2013 11:17:21 GMT -5
Run all 5 channels (L,R,C,LB,RB) off your XPA-5, and your sub from your LFE. It will sound fantastic in your room. I agree. But you can try run on XPA-5 Bi-amp your's F_L/R + C and your DENON to the surround. Enjoy your TOY'S
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Post by gostillerz on Apr 25, 2013 11:41:31 GMT -5
That's a monster of a receiver, and I don't think adding an amp is going to do much. If you really want one though, save $200 and get the XPA-3 to run the fronts. I love my XPA-5, but I'm using a pre/pro, not a 150w x 9 flagship Denon.
One question: I've read that for an XPA-5, if the rear channels aren't using much power, it can be diverted to the fronts if necessary. Does the Denon or other receivers do the same?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 12:54:16 GMT -5
Just note that the amp in that "36 lb monster ... 150w x 9 flagship Denon" is in no way on the same level performance wise as the 73 lb XPA-5 (amp only). The Denon's 150 watts per channel at 8 ohms is actually into two channels driven and not into 5 channels driven like the XPA-5 (200 watts). The XPA-5 is also rated into 4 ohms (300 watts) and the Denon is only rated down to 6 ohms, not 4 ohms. I'm not sure how the B&W CM9 rates as nominal impedance, but it does drop below 4 ohms at times. The Denon would probably measure about 110 actual watts into 8 ohms with 5 channels driven (I base that on a measured test on the 105 watt model 2313 which tested at 77 watts/5 ch driven).
Nothing wrong with the amp in the Denon as AVR's go but the amps compared here are from a different planet.
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Post by gostillerz on Apr 25, 2013 13:35:48 GMT -5
Haha Chuckie, well you sure told me!
Of course the XPA amps are built better. The point I was trying to make was if (even at 110w) it's loud enough for him, why spend the $800. Or at least go for the XPA-3 and use the receiver for the surrounds. It seems like a waste to not use the receiver's amp section at all.
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Post by deltadube on Apr 25, 2013 14:28:54 GMT -5
Just note that the amp in that "36 lb monster ... 150w x 9 flagship Denon" is in no way on the same level performance wise as the 73 lb XPA-5 (amp only). The Denon's 150 watts per channel at 8 ohms is actually into two channels driven and not into 5 channels driven like the XPA-5 (200 watts). The XPA-5 is also rated into 4 ohms (300 watts) and the Denon is only rated down to 6 ohms, not 4 ohms. I'm not sure how the B&W CM9 rates as nominal impedance, but it does drop below 4 ohms at times. The Denon would probably measure about 110 actual watts into 8 ohms with 5 channels driven (I base that on a measured test on the 105 watt model 2313 which tested at 77 watts/5 ch driven). Nothing wrong with the amp in the Denon as AVR's go but the amps compared here are from a different planet. Hi Chuck.. yup we talked about that with my 3313 the 3312 was 125wpc 2 channels only 82 wpc with 5 and only 78 wpc with 7 you in Japan now Chuck? seems a bit of a waste the denon 4520 money wise 2500 and the 9.2 but not much power.. xpa 5 blow your denon away it did mine!!! maybe you need the xpr 5 tho.. cheers
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Post by deltadube on Apr 25, 2013 14:30:42 GMT -5
Haha Chuckie, well you sure told me! Of course the XPA amps are built better. The point I was trying to make was if (even at 110w) it's loud enough for him, why spend the $800. Or at least go for the XPA-3 and use the receiver for the surrounds. It seems like a waste to not use the receiver's amp section at all. the power will make the speakers sound better thats why! it did on my denon when i added the xpa 3 was night and day improvement.. love my xpa 3 ... cheers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 14:42:40 GMT -5
>> Or at least go for the XPA-3 and use the receiver for the surrounds. It seems like a waste to not use the receiver's amp section at all. <<
Totally agree. Get an XPA-3 and use the receiver to power the surrounds. This will save you money and will sound quite good...
Alternatively, ditch the Denon and get a UMC-200 along with the XPA-5. You should be able to (easily) sell the Denon for enough money to pay for the UMC-200 and maybe even have a few bucks left over. This will also give you a brand new system with a 5-year warranty. Additionally, it will get you into the "25% off Club", allowing you to upgrade to the XMC-1 when it is finally available (If ever...)
UPDATE!! ====== I have now read the specs for the Denon and it is definitely a very nice receiver. I think the 1st thing you should do is to honestly assess the Denon's performance for several weeks with your current setup and see if you find it lacking. If so, follow the recommendations above. If not, be happy with what you have and spend your money on room treatments and better source materials...
-RW-
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fatone
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 7
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Post by fatone on Apr 25, 2013 14:50:24 GMT -5
Well, everything is brand new and I can take back Denon receiver if I have to! It will be mostly be used for the HT. the XPA-5 will be used mainly to play music w/da Front speakers. I was thinking XPA-5 for future expansion to possibly 7.2 setup.
So if I did take the Denon receiver back, what would the forum recommend? I wanted a receiver to handle my PS3, Xbox, my TV, DVD player, media server, and have other extra features such as AirPlay. I was gonna get the Onkyo TX-NR5010, but heard B&W speakers sound better on Denon receivers.
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bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Apr 25, 2013 15:23:16 GMT -5
Well, everything is brand new and I can take back Denon receiver if I have to! It will be mostly be used for the HT. the XPA-5 will be used mainly to play music w/da Front speakers. I was thinking XPA-5 for future expansion to possibly 7.2 setup. The Denon is a very nice unit. Keep it and get the XPA-5. Done. Sit back and enjoy the sound.
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Post by gostillerz on Apr 25, 2013 15:54:22 GMT -5
Well, everything is brand new and I can take back Denon receiver if I have to! It will be mostly be used for the HT. the XPA-5 will be used mainly to play music w/da Front speakers. I was thinking XPA-5 for future expansion to possibly 7.2 setup. So if I did take the Denon receiver back, what would the forum recommend? I wanted a receiver to handle my PS3, Xbox, my TV, DVD player, media server, and have other extra features such as AirPlay. I was gonna get the Onkyo TX-NR5010, but heard B&W speakers sound better on Denon receivers. I would stick with the Denon. One thing I've noticed is it lists for $2500, but Denon has refurbs for $1600. If you paid close to MSRP, I'd take it back and get the refurb. That's a HELL of a discount. It's got all of the features you want and Audyssey XT32, which is a biggie. I saw it has a built in Ethernet hub. That's a great idea that I would never have thought of, and helps you with the Xbox/PS3/PC. Less lag potentially for gaming. If I had the cash, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I get the impression you didn't hook anything up yet. If you didn't, definitely see how what you already have sounds like before doing anything. If it's not powerful enough, add the XPA-3 for the LCR. The Denon will be able to handle the rest just fine if you ever do go to 7.1 or even 9.1.
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Post by gostillerz on Apr 25, 2013 16:00:35 GMT -5
Haha Chuckie, well you sure told me! Of course the XPA amps are built better. The point I was trying to make was if (even at 110w) it's loud enough for him, why spend the $800. Or at least go for the XPA-3 and use the receiver for the surrounds. It seems like a waste to not use the receiver's amp section at all. the power will make the speakers sound better thats why! it did on my denon when i added the xpa 3 was night and day improvement.. love my xpa 3 ... cheers. You also said that you heard a "night and day" improvement when passively bi-amping your towers. I love my XPA-5. I just don't think it's necessary in this situation, which is why I said go for the XPA-3 if he needs it and save the guy some money! Delta, you totally have to make this your avatar man ;D
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Post by deltadube on Apr 25, 2013 17:28:46 GMT -5
wish i did have da power of the xpr line..
cheers
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Post by deltadube on Apr 25, 2013 17:35:14 GMT -5
Well, everything is brand new and I can take back Denon receiver if I have to! It will be mostly be used for the HT. the XPA-5 will be used mainly to play music w/da Front speakers. I was thinking XPA-5 for future expansion to possibly 7.2 setup. So if I did take the Denon receiver back, what would the forum recommend? I wanted a receiver to handle my PS3, Xbox, my TV, DVD player, media server, and have other extra features such as AirPlay. I was gonna get the Onkyo TX-NR5010, but heard B&W speakers sound better on Denon receivers. if you want da power for music look at the xpa 1s xpa 1 ls xpa 2 and the add in the xpa 5 for da movies for the 7.2 cheers..
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fatone
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 7
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Post by fatone on Apr 25, 2013 18:31:17 GMT -5
Fatone, If you do pull the trigger, please report back. I have a very similar theater setup with a 4520 powering CM series in 7.1. I sure will! Well, everything is brand new and I can take back Denon receiver if I have to! It will be mostly be used for the HT. the XPA-5 will be used mainly to play music w/da Front speakers. I was thinking XPA-5 for future expansion to possibly 7.2 setup. So if I did take the Denon receiver back, what would the forum recommend? I wanted a receiver to handle my PS3, Xbox, my TV, DVD player, media server, and have other extra features such as AirPlay. I was gonna get the Onkyo TX-NR5010, but heard B&W speakers sound better on Denon receivers. I would stick with the Denon. One thing I've noticed is it lists for $2500, but Denon has refurbs for $1600. If you paid close to MSRP, I'd take it back and get the refurb. That's a HELL of a discount. It's got all of the features you want and Audyssey XT32, which is a biggie. I saw it has a built in Ethernet hub. That's a great idea that I would never have thought of, and helps you with the Xbox/PS3/PC. Less lag potentially for gaming. If I had the cash, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I get the impression you didn't hook anything up yet. If you didn't, definitely see how what you already have sounds like before doing anything. If it's not powerful enough, add the XPA-3 for the LCR. The Denon will be able to handle the rest just fine if you ever do go to 7.1 or even 9.1. Paid $2000 new for 4520 receiver so I don't feel too bad. Also, quite sadly, everything is still unopened, waiting for my 12-gauge copper wire and some other cables.
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Post by gostillerz on Apr 25, 2013 19:32:30 GMT -5
Fatone, If you do pull the trigger, please report back. I have a very similar theater setup with a 4520 powering CM series in 7.1. I sure will! I would stick with the Denon. One thing I've noticed is it lists for $2500, but Denon has refurbs for $1600. If you paid close to MSRP, I'd take it back and get the refurb. That's a HELL of a discount. It's got all of the features you want and Audyssey XT32, which is a biggie. I saw it has a built in Ethernet hub. That's a great idea that I would never have thought of, and helps you with the Xbox/PS3/PC. Less lag potentially for gaming. If I had the cash, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I get the impression you didn't hook anything up yet. If you didn't, definitely see how what you already have sounds like before doing anything. If it's not powerful enough, add the XPA-3 for the LCR. The Denon will be able to handle the rest just fine if you ever do go to 7.1 or even 9.1. Paid $2000 new for 4520 receiver so I don't feel too bad. Also, quite sadly, everything is still unopened, waiting for my 12-gauge copper wire and some other cables. [/quote] I wouldn't do anything until you set it up first, and you're fine with the Denon either as a standalone or with an amp. You won't get better for the price. No reason to spend the extra cash for the Onkyo. Set everything up, test it out, then decide if you need an external amp or not. By the way, you have serious will power! My amp arrived a month before my pre/pro and I plugged it in just to see it turn on and already labeled my interconnects.
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fatone
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by fatone on Apr 25, 2013 20:08:44 GMT -5
Paid $2000 new for 4520 receiver so I don't feel too bad. Also, quite sadly, everything is still unopened, waiting for my 12-gauge copper wire and some other cables. ...By the way, you have serious will power! My amp arrived a month before my pre/pro and I plugged it in just to see it turn on and already labeled my interconnects. You don't know the half! I have had speakers for bout a month and was waiting for the Denon receiver. Everything unopened sitting, patiently waiting for Amperage flow!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 20:23:13 GMT -5
Haha Chuckie, well you sure told me! Of course the XPA amps are built better. The point I was trying to make was if (even at 110w) it's loud enough for him, why spend the $800. Or at least go for the XPA-3 and use the receiver for the surrounds. It seems like a waste to not use the receiver's amp section at all. How do you know it's loud enough for him? We have no idea of the size of his room, sound absorption or his listening habits. The 92dB sensitivity doesn't mean he can't take advantage of the XPA-5. My comment was to challenge your post about the monster AVR being almost as good (implied) as the XPA-5. I gave facts not Denon's 150 watts with 2 channels running. They are not even close. The 4520CI is very good as AVR's go. Will he hear a difference, most likely yes and especially if he listens to well recorded multi-channel music or movies with lots of dynamic range which many of the sources have. He will also hear a difference if he has a fairly large room and/or if those B&W's stay in the 4 ohm range or he changes speakers in the future. " I would stick with the Denon. One thing I've noticed is it lists for $2500, but Denon has refurbs for $1600. If you paid close to MSRP, I'd take it back and get the refurb. That's a HELL of a discount. It's got all of the features you want and Audyssey XT32, which is a biggie." The Audyssey auto room systems are for those who won't or don't know how to do their own speaker setup. They all make mistakes and you must check the results out manually. Rather than your refirb idea, I would set up my own speakers with a RS meter, $45 and go for the XPA-5 and UMC-200 (Emo Q is very good but also needs manual checks), $1498 both with 5 year transferable warranties. The OP wanted to know if he should use the XPA-5 for all 5 speakers, that was a yes and already mentioned. I simply responded when you posted that adding the XPA-5 wasn't going to do much.
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