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Post by billmac on Apr 26, 2013 7:09:09 GMT -5
the power will make the speakers sound better thats why! it did on my denon when i added the xpa 3 was night and day improvement.. love my xpa 3 ... cheers. In what way does the additional power make the speakers sound better? What was the night and day difference you heard when you added the XPA-3? Bill
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Post by billmac on Apr 26, 2013 7:40:26 GMT -5
How do you know it's loud enough for him? We have no idea of the size of his room, sound absorption or his listening habits. The 92dB sensitivity doesn't mean he can't take advantage of the XPA-5. My comment was to challenge your post about the monster AVR being almost as good (implied) as the XPA-5. I gave facts not Denon's 150 watts with 2 channels running. They are not even close. The 4520CI is very good as AVR's go. Will he hear a difference, most likely yes and especially if he listens to well recorded multi-channel music or movies with lots of dynamic range which many of the sources have. He will also hear a difference if he has a fairly large room and/or if those B&W's stay in the 4 ohm range or he changes speakers in the future. " I would stick with the Denon. One thing I've noticed is it lists for $2500, but Denon has refurbs for $1600. If you paid close to MSRP, I'd take it back and get the refurb. That's a HELL of a discount. It's got all of the features you want and Audyssey XT32, which is a biggie." The Audyssey auto room systems are for those who won't or don't know how to do their own speaker setup. They all make mistakes and you must check the results out manually. Rather than your refirb idea, I would set up my own speakers with a RS meter, $45 and go for the XPA-5 and UMC-200 (Emo Q is very good but also needs manual checks), $1498 both with 5 year transferable warranties. The OP wanted to know if he should use the XPA-5 for all 5 speakers, that was a yes and already mentioned. I simply responded when you posted that adding the XPA-5 wasn't going to do much. Chuckie, How do you know the 4520 doesn't have sufficient power for fatone's room? Its no secret you do not like Audyssey. Of course it isn't for everyone. But how does one EQ their sub as good as XT32 does with a RS SPL meter? "The Audyssey auto room systems are for those who won't or don't know how to do their own speaker setup. They all make mistakes and you must check the results out manually". This statement shows you are not very familiar with Audyssey. By that I mean you are making a completely broad based statement about those that use Audyssey. What you missed is the owners with Audyssey equipped gear that is Pro capable. With Audyssey Pro one can adjust and tweak the calibration that is done. Do you have actual hands on experience with Audyssey Pro? If not then the comment you made above is just flat out wrong IMO. Many of those using Audyssey Pro are well versed in room correction in ways that a RS SPL meter can not touch. The only time the XPA-5 is going to make a SQ difference is if one tends to push their system to the point of clipping. If one does not push their system to those levels then I would believe there will be no difference in SQ. Bill
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Post by fsubales on Apr 26, 2013 8:42:15 GMT -5
I would still go with the XPA-5, Not for the difference in sound quality but for future upgrades. If the OP decides to upgrade his Receiver with a new processes in a few years he will not be short the two channels. He will have more flexibility with the XPA-5.
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Post by billmac on Apr 26, 2013 8:59:26 GMT -5
I think the 1st thing you should do is to honestly assess the Denon's performance for several weeks with your current setup and see if you find it lacking. If so, follow the recommendations above. If not, be happy with what you have and spend your money on room treatments and better source materials... -RW- This is the best advice I have seen suggested in this thread . Why add an external amp right away when the 4520 could easily power his speakers. If the amp is added right away the OP will never know if it was money well spent. Bill
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Post by sergeantynot on Apr 26, 2013 11:18:01 GMT -5
The 4520 (and rebadged Marantz 8801) are quite easily the BEST processors on the market right now and in the foreseeable future, with current gen technology, including Audyssey XT32. Anyone wondering how Audyssey XT32 would stack up against EMO-Q/TactX would be better off going with Audyssey.
Buy the 4520, set it in preamp only mode, and get the XPA-5. This will guarantee you are getting the best possible sonic results.
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Post by deltadube on Apr 26, 2013 12:35:41 GMT -5
the power will make the speakers sound better thats why! it did on my denon when i added the xpa 3 was night and day improvement.. love my xpa 3 ... cheers. In what way does the additional power make the speakers sound better? What was the night and day difference you heard when you added the XPA-3? Bill Bill went from flat sound to alive full sounding is a good way to put it.. come on over and have a listen.. then u will hear how much better it is.. cheers
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Post by billmac on Apr 26, 2013 19:18:39 GMT -5
Bill went from flat sound to alive full sounding is a good way to put it.. come on over and have a listen.. then u will hear how much better it is.. cheers I always thought Emotiva amps were known to be very neutral sounding. So I can't see how when the amps in your 3313 are run at volume levels below clipping that the sound would go from flat to alive full sounding by adding the XPA-3. Were these comparisons done at matched volume levels? Is this improvement at all volume levels? I would gladly come over but Canada would be a bit of a ride even from Maine . Bill
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Post by deltadube on Apr 28, 2013 1:15:16 GMT -5
Bill went from flat sound to alive full sounding is a good way to put it.. come on over and have a listen.. then u will hear how much better it is.. cheers I always thought Emotiva amps were known to be very neutral sounding. So I can't see how when the amps in your 3313 are run at volume levels below clipping that the sound would go from flat to alive full sounding by adding the XPA-3. Were these comparisons done at matched volume levels? Is this improvement at all volume levels? I would gladly come over but Canada would be a bit of a ride even from Maine . Bill guess you will just have to buy and emo amp to hear the improvement in the sound quality... cheers.
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Post by gostillerz on Apr 28, 2013 3:32:05 GMT -5
I always thought Emotiva amps were known to be very neutral sounding. So I can't see how when the amps in your 3313 are run at volume levels below clipping that the sound would go from flat to alive full sounding by adding the XPA-3. Were these comparisons done at matched volume levels? Is this improvement at all volume levels? I would gladly come over but Canada would be a bit of a ride even from Maine . Bill guess you will just have to buy and emo amp to hear the improvement in the sound quality... cheers. If you want the real sonic quality, don't you waste it on those little XPA's, don't you do it. You need XPR-1's all the way around. Seriously, you have to buy them or else you don't care about audio at all.
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Post by billmac on Apr 29, 2013 8:49:43 GMT -5
guess you will just have to buy and emo amp to hear the improvement in the sound quality... cheers. The only Emotiva amp I have owned was the LPA-1. A very nice amp but one that did not improve the SQ of my system in a way that you have described. I'm still under the opinion that an amp such as the XPA-3/5 does not alter the SQ of ones system in a way you describe. If you are talking about if the amps of an AVR are pushed to clipping then at that point an amp like the XPA-3/5 will improve SQ. The improvement will be that there is no longer distortion at higher volume levels. At volume levels where clipping (distortion) is not present then I do not believe there will be any SQ improvements. But that is just my opinion . Bill
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Post by billmac on Apr 29, 2013 8:52:09 GMT -5
If you want the real sonic quality, don't you waste it on those little XPA's, don't you do it. You need XPR-1's all the way around. Seriously, you have to buy them or else you don't care about audio at all. I'm assuming that the above post was in jest. But the lack of smiley faces and the "seriously" comment makes me wonder . Bill
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Post by eclypse on Apr 29, 2013 13:10:05 GMT -5
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 29, 2013 13:36:17 GMT -5
the power will make the speakers sound better thats why! it did on my denon when i added the xpa 3 was night and day improvement.. love my xpa 3 ... cheers. In what way does the additional power make the speakers sound better? What was the night and day difference you heard when you added the XPA-3? Bill Maybe it is just the same difference you heard with the stock 4311 amps vs the A7200.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 14:05:49 GMT -5
How do you know it's loud enough for him? We have no idea of the size of his room, sound absorption or his listening habits. The 92dB sensitivity doesn't mean he can't take advantage of the XPA-5. My comment was to challenge your post about the monster AVR being almost as good (implied) as the XPA-5. I gave facts not Denon's 150 watts with 2 channels running. They are not even close. The 4520CI is very good as AVR's go. Will he hear a difference, most likely yes and especially if he listens to well recorded multi-channel music or movies with lots of dynamic range which many of the sources have. He will also hear a difference if he has a fairly large room and/or if those B&W's stay in the 4 ohm range or he changes speakers in the future. " I would stick with the Denon. One thing I've noticed is it lists for $2500, but Denon has refurbs for $1600. If you paid close to MSRP, I'd take it back and get the refurb. That's a HELL of a discount. It's got all of the features you want and Audyssey XT32, which is a biggie." The Audyssey auto room systems are for those who won't or don't know how to do their own speaker setup. They all make mistakes and you must check the results out manually. Rather than your refirb idea, I would set up my own speakers with a RS meter, $45 and go for the XPA-5 and UMC-200 (Emo Q is very good but also needs manual checks), $1498 both with 5 year transferable warranties. The OP wanted to know if he should use the XPA-5 for all 5 speakers, that was a yes and already mentioned. I simply responded when you posted that adding the XPA-5 wasn't going to do much. Chuckie, How do you know the 4520 doesn't have sufficient power for fatone's room? Its no secret you do not like Audyssey. Of course it isn't for everyone. But how does one EQ their sub as good as XT32 does with a RS SPL meter? "The Audyssey auto room systems are for those who won't or don't know how to do their own speaker setup. They all make mistakes and you must check the results out manually". This statement shows you are not very familiar with Audyssey. By that I mean you are making a completely broad based statement about those that use Audyssey. What you missed is the owners with Audyssey equipped gear that is Pro capable. With Audyssey Pro one can adjust and tweak the calibration that is done. Do you have actual hands on experience with Audyssey Pro? If not then the comment you made above is just flat out wrong IMO. Many of those using Audyssey Pro are well versed in room correction in ways that a RS SPL meter can not touch. The only time the XPA-5 is going to make a SQ difference is if one tends to push their system to the point of clipping. If one does not push their system to those levels then I would believe there will be no difference in SQ. Bill So then why would you use Jeff from Accucal, he says: Re: UMC200 - My Pro Calibration Results « Reply #17 on Feb 21, 2013, 7:11am » Feb 20, 2013, 4:59pm, billmac wrote: Feb 20, 2013, 10:34am, avaddikt wrote: He is a perfectionist, and works the same way with video. Using appropriate samples for his final tweak. There is no auto system for audio or any video disk that can equal that kind of knowledge, dedication and experience. Of course the degree of improvement is largely dependent on what is lacking at the start. I'm seriously thinking of having Jeff tweak my system as well. I finally bought a new plasma so I'm definitely interested. I know Jeff is not a fan of any room correction systems which is cool. But I wonder if he could manually tweak my system with the 4311 which I'm sure has a poor manual EQ system compared to the UMC-200. Bill Bill, I certainly can improve your system. I find Audyssey to never be very good. I always turn it off. The EQ in Denon is not as precise as that in the UMC-200. The value of that precision depends on the complexity of the errors. ( ;D ;D ;D)
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Post by billmac on Apr 29, 2013 15:22:35 GMT -5
Maybe it is just the same difference you heard with the stock 4311 amps vs the A7200. Boot, To be honest I have always run the 4311 in preamp mode. I had the A7200 so I decided to use the 4311 as a preamp. I have several friends that sold their external amps and are using the 4311/A100's internal amps with excellent results. I would do a quick cable swap out but when you change the 4311 from preamp mode you have to do Audyssey over again. Maybe one of these days I'll give it a shot . Bill
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 29, 2013 15:34:09 GMT -5
Maybe it is just the same difference you heard with the stock 4311 amps vs the A7200. Boot, To be honest I have always run the 4311 in preamp mode. I had the A7200 so I decided to use the 4311 as a preamp. I have several friends that sold their external amps and are using the 4311/A100's internal amps with excellent results. I would do a quick cable swap out but when you change the 4311 from preamp mode you have to do Audyssey over again. Maybe one of these days I'll give it a shot . Bill It would be a good experiment. But I would give it a period of daily use to really judge if there is a difference or not.
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Post by billmac on Apr 29, 2013 15:39:42 GMT -5
So then why would you use Jeff from Accucal, he says: Re: UMC200 - My Pro Calibration Results « Reply #17 on Feb 21, 2013, 7:11am » Feb 20, 2013, 4:59pm, billmac wrote: Feb 20, 2013, 10:34am, avaddikt wrote: He is a perfectionist, and works the same way with video. Using appropriate samples for his final tweak. There is no auto system for audio or any video disk that can equal that kind of knowledge, dedication and experience. Of course the degree of improvement is largely dependent on what is lacking at the start. I'm seriously thinking of having Jeff tweak my system as well. I finally bought a new plasma so I'm definitely interested. I know Jeff is not a fan of any room correction systems which is cool. But I wonder if he could manually tweak my system with the 4311 which I'm sure has a poor manual EQ system compared to the UMC-200. Bill Bill, I certainly can improve your system. I find Audyssey to never be very good. I always turn it off. The EQ in Denon is not as precise as that in the UMC-200. The value of that precision depends on the complexity of the errors. ( ;D ;D ;D) Chuckie, As usual I have trouble following your posts . I'm having Jeff Meier calibrate my system for both video and audio. I'm going to have Jeff calibrate the audio using the 4311's manual EQ which is not as good as the UMC-200's PEQ. Then if I like Jeff's manual calibration I will not use Audyssey. I gave some serious thoughts to buying the UMC-200 but it is lacking in too many features that I need to have. So once again in your post you poke fun at Audyssey. But you never responded to my question asking if you ever used Audyssey Pro. Well have you or are you just going to avoid the question ? So when you say "The Audyssey auto room systems are for those who won't or don't know how to do their own speaker setup. They all make mistakes and you must check the results out manually" that pertains to those that use Emo-Q as well as all other RC systems? Bill
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Post by billmac on Apr 29, 2013 15:43:09 GMT -5
It would be a good experiment. But I would give it a period of daily use to really judge if there is a difference or not. It definitely would be a good experiment. I agree in that at least a few days using the 4311's amps would best. Bill
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 18:50:51 GMT -5
Bill, I find Audyssey to never be very good. I always turn it off. Maybe you can follow simple sentences from Jeff? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by billmac on Apr 29, 2013 21:01:22 GMT -5
Bill, I find Audyssey to never be very good. I always turn it off. Maybe you can follow simple sentences from Jeff? ;D ;D ;D Well maybe I will . I'm sure my system will perform visually and audibly better than yours ever will when Jeff is done . But I'm sure you'll slam Jeff's work even though you have no experience with that either ;D. Once again you avoid the tough questions. You slam a product you have no experience with. By that I mean Audyssey Pro. I assume that as you failed to answer my questions if you have ever used Audyssey Pro. So in effect you have no clue as to how every Audyssey version performs. So hopefully you can follow these simple sentences ;D. Bill
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