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Post by TempTag on Sept 9, 2013 16:30:19 GMT -5
Hello,
New to these boards and interested in the XMC-1 which would be my first, after many receivers, foray into the world of AV separates. I've read a lot on these boards about the recent price increase. However, as a potential future buyer what interests me far more is will the released XMC-1 have updated specs in line with a 2014 release date?
The basic spec that most interests me is HDMI 2.0 - why?
- Real support for 4k above 30fps
- Potentially better CEC (think WAF)
- Theoretically better audio quality
- Better lip-sync
- Support for more channels (yes, not really relevant to a 7.2 XMC-1 but if it is upgradable who knows)
And finally (and probably most importantly) is the idea that I am spending my money on current technology which should be good for a few more years. The XMC-1 still shows as HDMI 1.4 and I suspect by next year that anything with HDMI 1.4 supporting 1080p only will feel a bit behind the curve.
Thoughts?
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 9, 2013 16:46:13 GMT -5
Besides the first one wasn't HDMI 1.4 supposed to give us that already?
But I get it. HDMI x.y (Pick whatever the new one is now or two years from now) makes us go buy new stuff in search of the next best (and unattainable) thing.
OEMs got to eat I guess.
New processor, new display (no current 4K has 2.0!), new player etc.
$$$$$$$$$$$
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 9, 2013 17:16:03 GMT -5
Will the cable/satellite company have 4K content? I'm guessing not anytime soon. I just spent $1499 on a current Panasonic plasma ST60 model that's HDMI 1.4, so I won't be in need of HDMI 2.0 anytime soon. Yes 2.0 will be necessary at some point, so I'm sure Emotiva already has a future plan for implementation. 4k flat panels are barely in their infancy so 3 or 4 more years I might just consider one then. The XMC-1 is supposed to be upgradable, so no worries here.
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Post by TempTag on Sept 9, 2013 18:49:46 GMT -5
I doubt cable/sat will do 4k anytime soon but Netflix will and others have suggested similar. The good decision to continue the trend where new HDMI standards are backwards compatible means there is no risk for display manufacturers to adopt 2.0 as a feature. Earlier this year I looked at an (admittedly sketchy) 4k panel on Amazon for less than $1100k but was not ready to buy as was not interested in 4k if I had to rely on displayport to fully utilize it. HDMI 2.0 finally getting approved means we may see better 4k displays drop in price faster than we have seen to date.
If not released with HDMI 2.0, upgradeability to 2.0 would be a very good thing.
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Sept 9, 2013 20:32:26 GMT -5
Don't worry, it'll be OK. 1.4 should do me for a long while I think, though now that we are looking at 2014 I think it will be a negative come review time. |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 9, 2013 20:40:36 GMT -5
But to answer the OP's question, I do think the XMC will have 2.0 since the specs are now final. Now are they going to be good for anything? Hey one less thing for e nay sayers to whine about.  |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 9, 2013 21:03:18 GMT -5
If it helps, Emotivsa was planning to allow the XMC-1 to have HDMI 2 capability at some point (may or may not involve a cost). But currently the XMC-1 is to be released with 1.4
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 9, 2013 21:23:12 GMT -5
Don't worry, it'll be OK. 1.4 should do me for a long while I think, though now that we are looking at 2014 I think it will be a negative come review time. That's what I get for using my iPhone to post.  |
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Post by ansat on Sept 9, 2013 21:54:18 GMT -5
I don't think it would be possible to release a 2.0 board by the release date. Looking around there are no HDMI 2.0 transceiver evaulation boards on the market. Emotiva currently has 1 production unit with hdmi, so I think it is likely they will be limited to what is available on analog devices www.analog.com as far as had I board designs. Looking at the specs of the adv7623 even though the rev d. Was in march of 2013, I don't think that a firmware update could address anything like what can be done with the tv input boards. |
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Post by jdskycaster on Sept 9, 2013 22:49:06 GMT -5
So, this then begs the question. Would you rather have an XMC-1 in February with HDMI 1.4 or wait possibly another 6 months (or even more) for an XMC-1 with 2.0? For me, it has been plenty long enough and although I always like to future proof it may be some time before I pony up the cash for a 4K front projector. Could be 3-4 years minimum and maybe more realistically 5. In that case I would rather have it in Feb. I would be ok without 2.0.
You see, I paid $750 for my Denon AVR a little over three years ago. I have no problem sending it to another room in the house or even selling it for a couple hundred bucks when it comes time to upgrade (hopefully next year). The XMC-1 will cost more but I still place it in the category of "near enough the cost" of a competent AVR used as a pre-pro. I would have no issues selling the XMC-1 in that same 3-4 year timeframe for say $3-400 and upgrade to the next gen processor with 2.0 capability.
Will that end up costing me a couple hundred dollars more? Sure, but then I would be getting HDMI 2.0 plus any other advancements that work their way into the Emo processor lineup. That is worth far more than the slight increase in price over time and does not take into account any possible performance advantage moving back to a separate processor over an HDMI 2.0 capable AVR (available sometime next year) used as a pre-pro.
This is also why I never get hyped up over "upgradeable" components. Great if Dan can pull this off in an affordable and reliable way but futures is never about any single component or function. It may be for some but I usually want more. Just upgrading the video board to handle 2.0 and maybe get a second HDMI out (that I would never use) is most likely not enough to force me to purchase the upgrade itself. It is usually more cost effective to upgrade to a newer platform with all that plus more - even better sound, more advanced processing, more channels, etc etc.
Heck, if you look at my equipment list I am still using a 720p front projector in my HT. Why? Because up until a year ago 90% of the content in my personal collection was all DVD and quite a bit of my viewing was still off the Dish. Not to mention I still had a brand new bulb sitting on the shelf which I just installed last Feb. That has dramatically changed over the past year and I now have quite a bit of content in my collection that is full 1080p but it is amazing how many hours are dedicated to watching programming off the Dish vs. Bluray.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 10, 2013 17:54:06 GMT -5
I don't think it would be possible to release a 2.0 board by the release date. Looking around there are no HDMI 2.0 transceiver evaulation boards on the market. Emotiva currently has 1 production unit with hdmi, so I think it is likely they will be limited to what is available on analog devices www.analog.com as far as had I board designs. Looking at the specs of the adv7623 even though the rev d. Was in march of 2013, I don't think that a firmware update could address anything like what can be done with the tv input boards. Panasonic should have a HDMI 2.0 display out by this October. shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-L65WT600/So there has to be some eval boards out. |
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Post by ansat on Sept 10, 2013 20:25:14 GMT -5
Panasonic is more likely than not, devolping their own board. But I will rephrase my comment to there is no publically available evaulation boards
Tony
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Post by 2muchht on Sept 10, 2013 23:14:15 GMT -5
...Looking around there are no HDMI 2.0 transceiver evaluation boards on the market...Looking at the specs of the adv7623 even though the rev d. Was in march of 2013, I don't think that a firmware update could address anything like what can be done with the tv input boards. Remember that it isn't the boards, it is the chips. Silicon Image might have a bit of a lead on new chips over ADI since they are closer to the origin of HDMI as a Founder, but that might not be as big a deal at this point. For both I wouldn't expect new chips to be available in production quantities for companies that aren't a BIG manufacturer until the middle of the year at the earliest from either ADI or SMG. Then, it isn't just "new firmware" and a pin-for-pin replacement of one chip with another. The TV world is driving this and their needs will likely dictate an architecture that is going to be different from what the likes of Emo and other audio brands are doing now in SSPs and AVRs. Always remember that to pass 4K/60p/4:2:2 or 4:4:4 you need the new chips and a new board layout to meet the need for 18 Gbps/600MHz. If that weren't enough, there will be a requirement for the latest version of HDCP for anything that is 4K and that has to be baked into the chips and the firmware stacks. More fun: The CTS is still in final stages and isn't done yet. Big guys like Sony and Panasonic are going without it but I would guess that audio companies like Emo would prefer to wait. Bottom line is that if you are not Sony, Panasonic, LG, Samsung, Toshiba or similar you will be looking at a wait to get this into the market. One has to believe that they will get the resources first to put all of this into products. Don't hold your breath on this one; it will be a while. Ain't it all fun? |
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Post by cwt on Sept 11, 2013 1:32:30 GMT -5
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dubs
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Post by dubs on Sept 11, 2013 7:30:57 GMT -5
Read this article about Sony products. Seems to me this is how Emotiva could handle the hdmi 2.0 issue when it becomes relevant. " For some, HDMI 2.0 is just a download away When Sony announced it’s newest 4K televisions at IFA 2013, it also announced that most of its existing 4K sets can be upgraded to HDMI 2.0 by the end of 2013 through a simple firmware update. Just download the update and let the TV install it. And if Sony can do it, that means other manufacturers probably can as well. We’ll know in time which manufacturers and which devices can take advantage of a simple firmware update, but it is nice to know that an upgrade won’t necessarily involve a screwdriver or expensive technician. Read more: www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/hdmi-2-0-explained/#ixzz2eaPCrW6wFollow us: @digitaltrends on Twitter | digitaltrendsftw on Facebook'. |
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Post by 2muchht on Sept 11, 2013 12:36:58 GMT -5
...And if Sony can do it, that means other manufacturers probably can as well. We’ll know in time which manufacturers and which devices can take advantage of a simple firmware update, but it is nice to know that an upgrade won’t necessarily involve a screwdriver or expensive technician... A few notes are in order to these comments and the Sony products: 1. Note that it is only the newer 55" and 65" Sony sets that can get this update. The earlier 84" model and the projector need hardware updates that must be done by Sony. The reason? Likely to be that the newer models were designed from the start to accommodate the HDCP version that will likely be a requirement for 4K content. The keys for that have to be baked into the chips and the older sets almost certainly don't have them. That's likely to be the same for the XMC and any other "4K compatible" audio product using current or past generation HDMI Rx, Tx or port processor silicon. I would bet that VERY FEW existing products can get this upgrade. 2. It is common knowledge that the upgrade will only bring the Sony sets up to the capability to do 4K/60p/4:2:0 with 8-bit color. For the higher end, more sophisticated and knowledgeable consumer one finds around here that won't be enough. It isn't just the added resolution, but the improved color depth and similar that are part of the new HDMI and associated standards. To reach above the 4:2:0 and 8-bit you MUST use new chips that simply are not available yet. Buyer beware! |
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Post by jdskycaster on Sept 11, 2013 12:56:12 GMT -5
^Good clarification of the previous post. Early adopters have taken it on the chin several times through this evolution and that trend is not changing.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 11, 2013 13:21:37 GMT -5
Should have just gone with display port if you asked me.
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dubs
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Post by dubs on Sept 11, 2013 14:49:08 GMT -5
Thank you 2muchht. I thought it sounded to good to be true. I for one am not worried about needing hdmi 2.0 in the near future. We seem to have a hard time finding content that runs on true 7.1 sound much less 4k picture quality. Besides where I set my eyes couldn't see the difference anyway. I can't see Emo upgrading and the cost till it truly is relevant to the average person. I don't to want to pay till I need it. RMC-1 should be out then if you want it.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 11, 2013 15:11:50 GMT -5
...And if Sony can do it, that means other manufacturers probably can as well. We’ll know in time which manufacturers and which devices can take advantage of a simple firmware update, but it is nice to know that an upgrade won’t necessarily involve a screwdriver or expensive technician... A few notes are in order to these comments and the Sony products: 1. Note that it is only the newer 55" and 65" Sony sets that can get this update. The earlier 84" model and the projector need hardware updates that must be done by Sony. The reason? Likely to be that the newer models were designed from the start to accommodate the HDCP version that will likely be a requirement for 4K content. The keys for that have to be baked into the chips and the older sets almost certainly don't have them. That's likely to be the same for the XMC and any other "4K compatible" audio product using current or past generation HDMI Rx, Tx or port processor silicon. I would bet that VERY FEW existing products can get this upgrade. 2. It is common knowledge that the upgrade will only bring the Sony sets up to the capability to do 4K/60p/4:2:0 with 8-bit color. For the higher end, more sophisticated and knowledgeable consumer one finds around here that won't be enough. It isn't just the added resolution, but the improved color depth and similar that are part of the new HDMI and associated standards. To reach above the 4:2:0 and 8-bit you MUST use new chips that simply are not available yet. Buyer beware! I thought the HDMI organization dumbed down the specs from the initial release so that OEMs could get products out this year? Maybe I understood this incorrectly. |
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