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Post by Cogito on Dec 18, 2014 8:42:12 GMT -5
If I were to build what I would consider my ultimate expression of an amp it would be a dual chassis unit. One chassis for the power supply, the other for the amplifiers themselves. The power supply would be so over built that it would be impossible to suck it dry. The audio stages would have quad differential fully balanced input stages with cross linked current sources. Dual Darlington VAS stages, auto biasing and variable Class A drive. The main outputs stages would also be so overbuilt that the damping factor would be some ridiculous, no, lets make that ludicrously high level. Oh and I would add Analog Meters on it. Now that would be a statement piece, but I would let the amp speak for itself, it doesn't need my signature on it. I have signed a few pieces over the years because people have asked me to and I'm very flattered, but I personally don't feel it adds any value to the gear. Lonnie Emotiva already builds fantastic amps regardless of the cost. The current Emotiva monoblocks surely satisfy the amp needs of 90%+ of the people in the market. Emotiva amps are already quiet as hell, powerful as hell, musical as hell, refined as hell and affordable as hell. What further possible AUDIBLE refinements do you really think you can do? Lower the already inaudibly low THD another .0003%? Here's some suggestions I have for Emotiva: 1) Rack handles for the bigger amps. 2) Brushed silver faceplates as an option. 3) An internet streaming/music server box. 4) Instead of LED output meter, how about calibrated analog meters as an option? 5) A kick-ass integrated amp. 200/400w/ch (or more)in a 8/4 Ohm rating, built in DAC, subwoofer management and analog meters in a 4U chassis for under two grand? Get crack'n!!!
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Post by vcautokid on Dec 18, 2014 10:43:57 GMT -5
I like Lonnie's idea a great deal. A halo product for Emotiva!
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moonwolf
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Post by moonwolf on Dec 18, 2014 15:10:44 GMT -5
I only have one request for this dual chassis amp. Please make the feet higher than 2 inches!!! So, that we can stack them up without worrying too much about the heat. Also, this way a swiffer can clean underneath the amp.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 18, 2014 21:17:16 GMT -5
You got my attention Lonnie, that brief spec reads like a $10K+ amp from anyone else, so in true Emotiva style it would be a bargain. The problem with XPR's is no international sales, so it's the dual chassis that may be attractive. As long as each box came in at less than 40 kgs (or whatever the international no ship weight limit is) then I'm sure the Emotiva customers outside the 48 States would be very interested.
Cheers Gary
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Post by Jim on Dec 18, 2014 22:41:55 GMT -5
You got my attention Lonnie, that brief spec reads like a $10K+ amp from anyone else, so in true Emotiva style it would be a bargain. The problem with XPR's is no international sales, so it's the dual chassis that may be attractive. As long as each box came in at less than 40 kgs (or whatever the international no ship weight limit is) then I'm sure the Emotiva customers outside the 48 States would be very interested. Cheers Gary But bongo shipping rates when easily make it $10k, right?? Or maybe just $10k for shipping.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 19, 2014 0:27:48 GMT -5
You got my attention Lonnie, that brief spec reads like a $10K+ amp from anyone else, so in true Emotiva style it would be a bargain. The problem with XPR's is no international sales, so it's the dual chassis that may be attractive. As long as each box came in at less than 40 kgs (or whatever the international no ship weight limit is) then I'm sure the Emotiva customers outside the 48 States would be very interested. But bongo shipping rates when easily make it $10k, right?? Or maybe just $10k for shipping. Good point Cheers Gary
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Post by moko on Dec 19, 2014 0:36:46 GMT -5
I only have one request for this dual chassis amp. Please make the feet higher than 2 inches!!! So, that we can stack them up without worrying too much about the heat. Also, this way a swiffer can clean underneath the amp. you mean like these ? IMO, the power supply won't produce as much heat as the amp.
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Post by redcoat23 on Dec 19, 2014 4:57:03 GMT -5
I was thinking something on the line of these. www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/104mf/To quote Each kW chassis has a single-ended input and is rated at 1000W into 8 ohms, 1800 into 4 ohms, and a speaker-boggling 3000W into 2 ohms. Instantaneous peak output is claimed to be a frightening 5000W, with a peak current potential of ±200 amps and output voltage of around 130 amps. The Tri-Vista kWs can probably supply more juice than Florida.Even the Pre is a two box package
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moonwolf
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Post by moonwolf on Dec 19, 2014 11:21:27 GMT -5
I only have one request for this dual chassis amp. Please make the feet higher than 2 inches!!! So, that we can stack them up without worrying too much about the heat. Also, this way a swiffer can clean underneath the amp. you mean like these ? IMO, the power supply won't produce as much heat as the amp. You read my mind! That above there is something like 85K, right? Anyway, I really do think Emotiva needs a statement amp. It will serve as making a 'statement' not just to those of us in this forum, but people who did not know Emotiva name before. It does not even need to be profitable in my opinion (of course being profitable helps). Just like some car companies carry convertibles and make a radical prototype vehicle. Many times those companies take money loosing projects to help enhance the image of the company and use the developed technical advancement in tickle down manner to help improve the whole line up. Also, those red convertibles and crazy prototypes make great marketing materials. Rather then paying millions in buying advertisement pages, those products receive a free coverage. The product development costs are sometimes far lower than the free media coverage such statement pieces receive. Hope Lonnie is reading my comments!
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Dec 19, 2014 12:09:59 GMT -5
So which of you guys are gonna be the first to buy it? $6k+ for a pair of amps really? Man you guys are rich. Just because another amp is stupidly priced at $85k, doesn't mean it's a bargain. Lots of snake oil cables for $1000+. This doesn't mean a $100 cable is a bargain. I'll spend $10 on cables. Lonnie, I wouldn't consider the Emo forums as proper market research. It's probably the worst place to look for product planning research, IMHO. I want emotiva to stay profitable for my benefit in the future. Not waste their money on potential bust projects.
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 19, 2014 12:23:08 GMT -5
So which of you guys are gonna be the first to buy it? $6k+ for a pair of amps really? Man you guys are rich. Just because another amp is stupidly priced at $85k, doesn't mean it's a bargain. Lots of snake oil cables for $1000+. This doesn't mean a $100 cable is a bargain. I'll spend $10 on cables. Lonnie, I wouldn't consider the Emo forums as proper market research. It's probably the worst place to look for product planning research, IMHO. I want emotiva to stay profitable for my benefit in the future. Not waste their money on potential bust projects. True... it's like those surveys in which people all demand more healthy food from fast food places and when they actually put it on the menu, no one orders it. I have no doubt Emo could produce a state of the art amp that would compare favorably with anything else out there, at a lower price. But that lower price is still most likely going to be way over the budgets of most of the folks in the Lounge.
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Post by vneal on Dec 19, 2014 12:37:27 GMT -5
Boulder has a new set of mono amps that weigh 450 lbs and cost $195,000
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moonwolf
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Post by moonwolf on Dec 19, 2014 12:49:59 GMT -5
So which of you guys are gonna be the first to buy it? $6k+ for a pair of amps really? Man you guys are rich. Just because another amp is stupidly priced at $85k, doesn't mean it's a bargain. Lots of snake oil cables for $1000+. This doesn't mean a $100 cable is a bargain. I'll spend $10 on cables. Lonnie, I wouldn't consider the Emo forums as proper market research. It's probably the worst place to look for product planning research, IMHO. I want emotiva to stay profitable for my benefit in the future. Not waste their money on potential bust projects. I will buy a pair. I will even put in deposit today if I can have serial number 001 and 002 and would not mind waiting 2-3 years. I do think 85k is prohibitively expensive at least for me. Even 6k is a lot of money for me. But, I don't think people who buy 85k amps are stupid. It would been a very hard or very fortunate for a stupid to earn that kind of money to spend. Your $2000 amp and $5000 speaker can also be viewed stupidly priced from perspective of a someone who has a $200 integrated amp and $300 speakers or no speaker at all. But, for me, I just think you have great gears! Dual chassis, quad differential amp for about 6K? I think it's stupidly low priced. I will whole-heartedly grab a pair in an instant without a second thought!!
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Dec 19, 2014 12:52:01 GMT -5
Emotiva can next trying to build a Wilson Maxx 3 competitor and price it at $10,000. Wow a $70,000 (or whatever) speaker for $10,000!!!!!!! What a deal! Just "driving" the point home. No pun intended .
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 19, 2014 14:11:16 GMT -5
The thing with power amps is that they last a long time, decades, truly good power amps can last a lifetime. It's not like processors that are out of date in 3 or 4 years. If Emotiva customers are OK paying $2K for an XMC-1 that stays current for say 3 years then I don't see it as being any different to paying $6K for a pair of power amps that would easily stay current for 10 years ie; ~$600 a year. Speakers being a mechanical device also have a lifetime that is much shorter than a power amp. Speakers are also partly fashion statements and as such their appearance can age them faster than an electronic component. As a result I see spending a higher % on power amps initially as being a better value proposition that any other component in the system.
It's one of the reasons why Emotiva power amps hold their value so well and why they get snapped up so fast when being sold second hand. That also makes upgrading to a $6K pair not necessarily a straight $6K spend.
Cheers Gary
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Post by Poodleluvr on Dec 20, 2014 13:51:08 GMT -5
Hmmmmm? "ATI AT6002 Stereo Power Amplifier Reviewed; By: Jerry Del Colliano, December 15, 2014" hometheaterreview.com/ati-6002-stereo-power-amplifier-reviewed/?page=2Some excerpts: "Morris Kessler is the same guy for amplifiers. With 50-plus years of manufacturing experience, it could be argued that nobody makes a better amp for the dollar than Morris. Other companies seek out his help with both design and manufacture, including but not limited to the Harman brands, Outlaw Audio, Lexicon, Datasat, and many others over the years. Morris also owns brands like SAE, Theta Digital, and B&K and makes many of their amps." "Comparison and Competition I guess in the world of seven-channel amps, you could compare the AT6007 to the Outlaw Audio 7900, both made by Morris Kessler. In the world of stereo amps, I made a pretty odd comparison to a 30-watt pure Class A power amp from Pass Labs in the XA30.5; but, at $5,500, it's in the price category, and the two fight it out nicely in terms of fine details, despite the fact the Pass Labs amp is a physical beauty in comparison. Krell, Classe, Mark Levinson, and all of the other blue-chip audiophile companies have very worthy offerings, but all are nearly twice the price (if not higher) of the no-frills ATI 6002. From my listening tests of other amps, you have to look to the likes of the Krell 402e or my former reference amps, the Classe CT-M600 mono blocks (man do I miss them) at around $12,000 per pair and packing 600 watts per channel, to get notably more amp. That's a lot more money for the next level up." "Conclusion A lot of amp designers -- from Dan D'Agostino with the Aragon 4004 to Nelson Pass with the Adcom GFA-555 -- have tried to make the best-value audiophile amp. Today, I think Morris Kessler owns the crown. The AT6002 is one of the most powerful, resolute, quiet, and musical amps that you can lay your ears on, even though you can spend a lot more money on others that go to that next level. Is it time to get carried away and say it's the best amp ever? No, that would be a foolish mistake. What you could say is that, dollar-per-watt, you might not be able to find a better amp today. The AT6002 is a wonderful performer and a stunning value. It is very bare bones yet performance-oriented in its approach, just like the man whose signature is on the front. Don't let the comparably low price fool you, as this amp is for real. Its only real competition are amps from the big boys costing nearly twice the price."
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 20, 2014 14:45:01 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't know that Morris Kessler sat down at his work bench with his soldering iron and made every amp When a reviewer can't tell the difference between "designed" and "made" then I'm sorry but I stop reading. Merry Xmas Gary
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Post by pedrocols on Dec 20, 2014 16:17:25 GMT -5
So which of you guys are gonna be the first to buy it? $6k+ for a pair of amps really? Man you guys are rich. Just because another amp is stupidly priced at $85k, doesn't mean it's a bargain. Lots of snake oil cables for $1000+. This doesn't mean a $100 cable is a bargain. I'll spend $10 on cables. Lonnie, I wouldn't consider the Emo forums as proper market research. It's probably the worst place to look for product planning research, IMHO. I want emotiva to stay profitable for my benefit in the future. Not waste their money on potential bust projects. I will buy a pair. I will even put in deposit today if I can have serial number 001 and 002 and would not mind waiting 2-3 years. I do think 85k is prohibitively expensive at least for me. Even 6k is a lot of money for me. But, I don't think people who buy 85k amps are stupid. It would been a very hard or very fortunate for a stupid to earn that kind of money to spend. Your $2000 amp and $5000 speaker can also be viewed stupidly priced from perspective of a someone who has a $200 integrated amp and $300 speakers or no speaker at all. But, for me, I just think you have great gears! Dual chassis, quad differential amp for about 6K? I think it's stupidly low priced. I will whole-heartedly grab a pair in an instant without a second thought!! Chances are that anybody that can afford a 85k amp will never consider buying a much cheaper amp. Most likely somebody that can afford a nice sport car will potentially never consider buying a Hyundai Tiburon....
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moonwolf
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Post by moonwolf on Dec 21, 2014 23:09:15 GMT -5
Chances are that anybody that can afford a 85k amp will never consider buying a much cheaper amp. Most likely somebody that can afford a nice sport car will potentially never consider buying a Hyundai Tiburon.... I agree with you. And, I envy those fortunate people. And, I just wishing Lonnie to build this dream emotiva amp because I don't have 20k or 30k to put into a pair of dual chassis monoblocks. 6k is about the limit I can currently invest in a pair of dream amp, so I was just hoping others encourage him too.. I'm NOT encouraging other people to buy it. All I hoped was to build similar census to encourage Lonnie to build his statement piece! But, it seems like some people are put off by the fact that there can be a better amp than their current top of the line emotiva amps. Or, they just don't want to see emotiva to produce anything higher than current price bracket. But, I think such a statement piece will help emotiva in big picture. People outside current customer pool will recognize the brand and I really think the press coverage alone will be worth it. Some people here sounds as if they only consider emotiva as a cheap alternative brands. But, I beg to differ. I really believe Emotiva has a potential to be recognized as not just best brands for value but as one of the best brands period. After receiving my SA-250 amp, I really believe Emotiva can produce a statement piece to compete with any brands out there regardless of price!! And, yes, I just find a dual chassis amp... damn sexy!
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Dec 22, 2014 1:13:44 GMT -5
So which of you guys are gonna be the first to buy it? $6k+ for a pair of amps really? Man you guys are rich. Just because another amp is stupidly priced at $85k, doesn't mean it's a bargain. Lots of snake oil cables for $1000+. This doesn't mean a $100 cable is a bargain. I'll spend $10 on cables. Lonnie, I wouldn't consider the Emo forums as proper market research. It's probably the worst place to look for product planning research, IMHO. I want emotiva to stay profitable for my benefit in the future. Not waste their money on potential bust projects. I will buy a pair. I will even put in deposit today if I can have serial number 001 and 002 and would not mind waiting 2-3 years. I do think 85k is prohibitively expensive at least for me. Even 6k is a lot of money for me. But, I don't think people who buy 85k amps are stupid. It would been a very hard or very fortunate for a stupid to earn that kind of money to spend. Your $2000 amp and $5000 speaker can also be viewed stupidly priced from perspective of a someone who has a $200 integrated amp and $300 speakers or no speaker at all. But, for me, I just think you have great gears! Dual chassis, quad differential amp for about 6K? I think it's stupidly low priced. I will whole-heartedly grab a pair in an instant without a second thought!! I agree they may find them very expensive but they don't realize what a great value that both those products are . (F208 & XPR-5) And now that I added the XMC-1, I actually have to pinch myself just how good my system sounds. My system is based on very high value products. Those amps while looking great, I have to wonder how much better they would make my system sound. My guess is they would be better than my XPR-5 by a little bit. I guess I'm just too practical. Which is why monoblocks or these dual chassis doesn't really appeal to me but of course they can appeal to others who like the extra niceties.
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