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Post by Gary Cook on Nov 15, 2019 14:55:41 GMT -5
It actually has virtually nothing to do with "the grid".... as those voltages are determined by the individual pole-mounted transformers that feed each house or group of houses.
(The voltage that is used to distribute the power to the transformers, which is on the actual power grid itself, is much higher... often in the 3 kV to 5 kV range.)
Most homes in the US are actually wired for both 115 VAC and 230 VAC. In most homes, a 230 VAC center-tapped circuit comes into the house; and is then split into two 115 VAC phases for some of the circuits. It's just a matter of "convention" that most of our "regular small appliances" operate from 115 VAC circuits...
While most electric clothes driers, and most wired-in central AC units and electric heaters, use a 230 VAC circuit.
Therefore in most residential homes, the majority of outlets are wired for 115 VAC, with only a few special 230 VAC outlets provided for "driers and heaters".
However, both voltages are available at the circuit breaker panel, and new circuits can just as easily be wired for one as for the other.
You guys really do suffer from your 110 volt grid and 15 amp circuits (ie; 1650 watts), whereas much of the world is 240 volts and 10 amp circuits (ie; 2400 watts). Obviously it's too late to change an enormous grid, can't do it a bit at time, much like changing from driving on the wrong side of the road Genuine question KeithL, why do such a lot of posters on here run multiple dedicated 20 amp 115 volt circuits for their gear when they could run one 15 amp 230 volt circuit and never worry about running out of power? Surely it would be more cost effective? Does it require special building permits or different qualifications for electricians? Or is it just that everything else in the house is 115 volts so they don’t think or is it even know about using 230 volts instead? For us on 230/240 volts it seems such an obvious answer to what appears to be a common problem in the HT and hifi areas. Cheers Gary
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Post by donh50 on Nov 15, 2019 15:04:53 GMT -5
For a while, I've been noticing that whenever my laser printer comes on in my computer room, the lights dim and my UPS always switches to battery mode for a few seconds. The computer room is sucking hind-teat on the whole house's electrical wiring system. So I decided to adapt. I moved the printer to my bedroom (on a circuit with virtually NOTHING else on it), and enabled wireless (after a massive battle with the printer). But in the end I persevered. The surprise from all this is that the first page from a cold printer has always been poorly fused and prone to smudging. Now (with a healthier power supply), the first page is (pardon the expression) "laser sharp." So if you have a laser, and the first page is poorly fused, consider getting closer to the house breaker. It made a difference for me. Boom I have seen (measured) in-rush current on laser printers in the 20-30 A peak range with 10+ A sustained for a second or two. That initial surge is too quick to blow a breaker (usually, have had to replace older ones now and then), but more than enough to dim lights and kick off my UPS on the same circuit. I was curious many years ago when my new color laser had instructions to not put it on a UPS or surge protector, and since I had a nice 2500 VA unit (on a 20-A line), I did it anyway. It kicked the UPS breaker right away, natch, so I measured it (and a number of them since then).
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 15, 2019 15:26:46 GMT -5
Thanks - I'm convinced that moving the printer to a circuit with less drain has helped immensely.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,938
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Post by KeithL on Nov 15, 2019 15:44:38 GMT -5
I suspect a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's simply what we're accustomed to. The house I was born in was built in the 1950's and its electrical system was typical for those days.
It had a total of either four or six 15 amp 115 VAC circuits for the entire house. This was supplemented by a "special" 30 amp 230 VAC single outlet in the basement for an electric clothes dryer and another in the kitchen for an electric oven. (And both 230 VAC outlets were planned-for when the house was originally planned out.. much like the water lines and drain pipes.) (If my parents had favored gas appliances there would have been no 230 VAC outlets.)
Here in the US we also don't look at 230 VAC as "standard". When I bought a new dryer twenty years ago it came without a plug... I then purchased a plug to attach to it that matched the particular 230 VAC outlet that was installed in the basement in its "parking space".
It's a proverbial "chicken-and-egg" sort of thing. The overwhelming majority of household electrical outlets in the USA are 115 VAC... and every room in every house is wired for 115 VAC. Devices like central air units, and electric heaters, and such, are installed by an electrician, who will run a separate 230 VAC circuit for each. EVERYTHING else runs on 115 VAC does. And the overwhelming majority of household appliances are designed to run on 115 VAC... So..... You can't sell 230 VAC appliances because most people would have no place to plug them in... And, people don't have 230 VAC outlets installed in most rooms, because they have nothing to plug into them... And people are used to equipment that requires 230 VAC being the rare exception. People who find themselves with insufficient power simply add more 115 VAC circuits. (You can also add circuits that run at 115 VAC but have higher capacity... but it's far more common to simply add more 15A or 20A circuits.)
Also, to be fair, it really isn't a problem that most people ever see.
For example, many of our amps might draw 20+ amps at 115 VAC during a bench test... However, you can easily run two of our biggest amps from a single 15 amp 115 VAC circuit when playing music. I wouldn't be surprised to see this eventually start to change... now that many of the appliances we buy to run on 115 VAC will also be perfectly happy on 230 VAC service., However I suspect that it will take a while to happen. (At this moment, we generally don't bother to label either 115 VAC outlets, or 115 VAC equipment, because it is simply assumed to be the case.)
I should add one more thing... specifically in the context of audio equipment. Some people simply prefer to use separate circuits for "critical gear"... so they would rather their amplifier have "its own dedicated circuit" even if power capacity isn't a problem.
It actually has virtually nothing to do with "the grid".... as those voltages are determined by the individual pole-mounted transformers that feed each house or group of houses.
(The voltage that is used to distribute the power to the transformers, which is on the actual power grid itself, is much higher... often in the 3 kV to 5 kV range.)
Most homes in the US are actually wired for both 115 VAC and 230 VAC. In most homes, a 230 VAC center-tapped circuit comes into the house; and is then split into two 115 VAC phases for some of the circuits. It's just a matter of "convention" that most of our "regular small appliances" operate from 115 VAC circuits...
While most electric clothes driers, and most wired-in central AC units and electric heaters, use a 230 VAC circuit.
Therefore in most residential homes, the majority of outlets are wired for 115 VAC, with only a few special 230 VAC outlets provided for "driers and heaters".
However, both voltages are available at the circuit breaker panel, and new circuits can just as easily be wired for one as for the other.
You guys really do suffer from your 110 volt grid and 15 amp circuits (ie; 1650 watts), whereas much of the world is 240 volts and 10 amp circuits (ie; 2400 watts). Obviously it's too late to change an enormous grid, can't do it a bit at time, much like changing from driving on the wrong side of the road Genuine question KeithL , why do such a lot of posters on here run multiple dedicated 20 amp 115 volt circuits for their gear when they could run one 15 amp 230 volt circuit and never worry about running out of power? Surely it would be more cost effective? Does it require special building permits or different qualifications for electricians? Or is it just that everything else in the house is 115 volts so they don’t think or is it even know about using 230 volts instead? For us on 230/240 volts it seems such an obvious answer to what appears to be a common problem in the HT and hifi areas. Cheers Gary
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 15, 2019 23:00:13 GMT -5
The Audio-gd DAC is now in the system (and the JOLIDA tube buffer is out). Compared to the DAC in the Oppo UDP-205, the Audio-gd sounds more dynamic and less bright - both good things. But to "bloom," they take a good 10 to 15 minute warmup. The two systems under compare were:
1. Oppo UDP-205 analog out - Audio-gd HE-1 preamp - Emotiva PA-1 mono blocks - Emotiva T2 speakers. No subs or crossover.
2. Oppo UDP-205 coaxial digital out - Audio-gd DAC - Audio-gd HE-1 preamp - Emotiva PA-1 mono blocks - Emotiva T2 speakers. No subs or crossover.
So this is one of those RARE situations where more equipment sounds BETTER than less! Once I'm happy and intimately familiar with the sound of system 2, then I'll try inserting the Black-Ice-JOLIDA-Fosgate SST again and assessing it's contribution or reduction in overall sound quality.
Boom
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 17, 2019 6:49:05 GMT -5
So last night, I spent some time listening to the system while switch-watching ("swatching?") the LSU game and the State election results on the TV. To get the imaging right with this particular rig, distance from the back wall, speaker width, AND speaker toe-in must be attended to. And with the electronic crossover out of the system, the Emotiva T2 towers must be adjusted for either best imaging or best bass - because the two are in conflict, at least in my room. I prefer the imaging, and so plan to throw some subs back into the mix, but without a crossover. Maybe with the subs' plate amps crossing over at 40 Hz, the "Home Theater Thump" will be gone - here's hoping so!
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Post by drtrey3 on Nov 19, 2019 8:54:03 GMT -5
You have hit on quite the marketing idea though! Free WW with purchase.
Trey
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 20, 2019 15:22:32 GMT -5
Well, I found a use for my spare Sanos stands:
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 23, 2019 20:53:50 GMT -5
Well, shucks. It seems that my Emotiva 10" sub went to subwoofer heaven tonight. The electronics are MIA. I'll check the fuse tomorrow, but I suspect sub's gone. So I'll be watching CraigsList and yard sales next weekend for a replacement.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 28, 2019 10:28:53 GMT -5
I got my better half a "Roku Express" video streamer today ($29 @ Amazon). It connects to my wireless network and outputs 1080p via HDMI to her TV. It's an "internet only" device, but there's lots of free content, and add-on video packages are relatively cheap. Now she can watch the news while she does her hobbies.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 2, 2019 7:53:42 GMT -5
I also plugged up a Yamaha AVR to my system last night - Yikes! This thing sounds 95%+ as good as my multi-thousand-dollar “big-boy system!”
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Post by repeetavx on Dec 2, 2019 11:58:47 GMT -5
I also plugged up a Yamaha AVR to my system last night - Yikes! This thing sounds 95%+ as good as my multi-thousand-dollar “big-boy system!” Ouch! Always did like Yamaha.
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Post by audiobill on Dec 2, 2019 15:08:54 GMT -5
Just realized there are more RMC-1 pages than Boomzilla!! 😬
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 3, 2019 15:22:03 GMT -5
My audio amigo, Russell, speaks of the (very few) places in the room where subwoofers truly "couple" to the room. In those locations, the articulation is greater, the bass extension is truly lower (none of my previous subs ever sounded like they went anywhere near as low as the anechoic specs says they should), and the required gain on the sub plate-amps is lower than needed anywhere else in the room. I think I've found the spots in my room where the subs couple best! For my room, it turned out to be on the long wall, at least 8" off the floor, and at the ⅓ and ⅔ distances from the side walls. Now, when Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor hits the 16 Hz. pedal note, the earth quakes (my wife does NOT like it). When DJ Magic Mike comes in with the synth on "You Want Bass?" your diaphragm is physically displaced. And "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" comes on, your jaw just drops.
And this isn't with any Uber-Subs either. The two I'm currently running are a modest 12" Paradigm and a 10" Velodyne. Not junk, for sure, but not Martin-Logan Grotto or JL Fathom II subs, either. So my conclusion is: Placement makes more difference in sub performance than having the most expensive hardware. Finding the spot where the subs couple to the room increases apparent performance 10x.
Boomzilla
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 4, 2019 4:00:06 GMT -5
Ouch! Always did like Yamaha. AND the Yammie I'm running is an obsolete (like virtually antique - no HDMI, nothing but RGB video) yard sale item I scored for about $10. Now I've also heard the Yammie top of the line Aventage AVRs (See a review here), and (to my ears) they DON'T sound as good. More features? Yes. More power? Yes. Better sound? Not necessarily... I don't know why the more modestly-powered AVRs from Yamaha sound so much better, but to my ears, they do. Boom
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
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Post by novisnick on Dec 4, 2019 7:52:36 GMT -5
Ouch! Always did like Yamaha. AND the Yammie I'm running is an obsolete (like virtually antique - no HDMI, nothing but RGB video) yard sale item I scored for about $10. Now I've also heard the Yammie top of the line Aventage AVRs (See a review here), and (to my ears) they DON'T sound as good. More features? Yes. More power? Yes. Better sound? Not necessarily... I don't know why the more modestly-powered AVRs from Yamaha sound so much better, but to my ears, they do. Boom Easy explanation, Burr-Brown DAC
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Post by bonscott on Dec 4, 2019 11:23:21 GMT -5
AND the Yammie I'm running is an obsolete (like virtually antique - no HDMI, nothing but RGB video) yard sale item I scored for about $10. Now I've also heard the Yammie top of the line Aventage AVRs (See a review here), and (to my ears) they DON'T sound as good. More features? Yes. More power? Yes. Better sound? Not necessarily... I don't know why the more modestly-powered AVRs from Yamaha sound so much better, but to my ears, they do. Boom Easy explanation, Burr-Brown DAC
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Post by bonscott on Dec 4, 2019 11:26:58 GMT -5
Easy explanation, Burr-Brown DAC $10 yard sale old Yammy sounds almost as good as Multi thousand dollar system? KInda like a HDMI cable from Walmart sounds the same as a $300 Audiquest cable
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 4, 2019 20:56:16 GMT -5
garbulky and I may get to review this! The Pro-Ject X2 turntable with Sumiko Moonstone MM cartridge.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 5, 2019 2:51:30 GMT -5
Thinking of trying Roon ROCK. I found a PC deal at the local Capitol Area Computer Recycling Council that I couldn't resist. Intel i5 with 8 GB RAM, a 500 GB SSD & Win 10 for $98 with a one-year warranty. If I can get ROCK to run on it, then why not? It's also a small form-factor case, so I can leave it on the music equipment rack and it has a HDMI output, so I can switch it to the TV for setup. Would I use USB or Ethernet to connect this ROCK machine to the audio system?
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