UMC-200 & DTS HD Master Audio

[bay78]

My first UMC-200 had a problem processing Dolby True HD via bitstream, but after reverting back to firmware .39 at the advice of Emo support, it worked fine. However, I had to return the player because of a problem with the HDMI port 1. It had very bad problems with dropping audio and video.

I got the replacement UMC-200 this week. It decodes Dolby True HD via bitstream just fine, but as luck would have it, when I bitstream DTS HD Master Audio tracks, the UMC-200's display says "no audio" and no sound is heard. In contrast, using LPCM, the sound is just fine. I have tried three different sources (my main Samsung blu-ray player, PS3, and a Panasonic blu-ray player), all four HDMI inputs, and multiple (albeit cheaper quality) HDMI cables. I have ordered some better HDMI cables as one possible solution, but they won't arrive until next week. 

Now, I know the prevalent opinion is that there is no audio difference between bitstream and LPCM, and thus the quality is not lessened by letting the source decode the audio. In the meantime, that is exactly what I am doing. However, I want to figure this problem out. 

I have been in communication with Emo support, who have been great. They were unable to replicate the issue with a PS3 they have, and sent me their PS3 settings for me to match, which I did, but with no success. I just have a very hard time believing the issue is some kind of setting on the PS3, since all three sources I have tried have the same problem. 

I am curious if anyone else out there has had this problem or something similar, and/or if anyone has any suggestions. I know there is a lot of debate on whether more expensive HDMI cables are worth it, and I in no way want to start a new thread to provoke that issue. However, I am interested in whether anyone has had such problems solved by using different or better HDMI cables. 

I really appreciate any insights out there. Thanks to all in advance. 

[bootman]

Double check your player's audio setting.
if it is set to PCM and not bitstream, your UMC won't make the dts lights light up.
...and yes there is no difference if the PLAYER is decoding the audio and sending out PCM but there may be a difference if the UMC isn't detecting the stream properly.

do you have HEC enabled on the display?
HDMI is a chain and that could cause sync issues that forces everything to 2ch pcm.

No harm in trying it out.

what model samsung and Panny players?
They might have that enabled by default also.

[bay78]

The players are all set to bitstream. No audio comes through and the display says "no audio." It works fine when I switch the players to LPCM.

What is HEC? Not familiar with that term.

The Samsung is the BD-D6700. The Panasonic is the DMP-BD89. I generally have the Panny in my bedroom, but tried it out with the main system to see if it worked. (It didn't.)

Thanks!

[bootman]

On the Samsung its called Anynet, on the Panny its HDMI CEC, on the UMC its called CEC, on your display it could be called something else.
It is supposed to allow you to control other hdmi devices via one component.
Unless everything is the same brand (and even then) it rarely works as advertised and can cause weird things to happen.
I always turn that off with new gear.

Dolby TrueHD works OK?
what disk are you using to test?

[bay78]

Ok. All the CEC settings have been off, on the sources and on the UMC. I turned them all off soon after getting the first UMC-200 as I did not like how it was functioning.

Dolby True HD works perfectly fine sent bitstreamed. Only DTS HD Master Audio does not work.

I have tried several different discs, including a U2 concert blu-ray, the movie Croods, and the blue-ray of House of Cards.

[davep]

I believe the very early ps3's were not able to bitstream dts hdma, is yours an early one?

[bay78]

Good thought! I had forgotten that, but mine is a later model. It has the option to bitstream. Also, the same issue is happening with my two BluRay players. Thanks for the idea!


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[LCSeminole]

I remember your first thread on this and now that you've gotten a replacement UMC-200 this stumps me as you've tried all the obvious fixes. I don't remember what HDMI cables you were using before and maybe new cables do the trick, but I doubt that is the problem. There has got to be a simple fix as what are the odds that a second unit would not be accepting a DTS bitstream? I'll be following this to see what if anything fixes this. Good luck!

[davep]

Sounds like a bit of bad luck with 2 bad units. Third time lucky?

[bay78]

Apr 26, 2014 19:28:55 GMT -5 LCSeminole said:

I remember your first thread on this and now that you've gotten a replacement UMC-200 this stumps me as you've tried all the obvious fixes. I don't remember what HDMI cables you were using before and maybe new cables do the trick, but I doubt that is the problem. There has got to be a simple fix as what are the odds that a second unit would not be accepting a DTS bitstream? I'll be following this to see what if anything fixes this. Good luck!

LCSeminole,

I was embarrassed to even post my problem with the second UMC-200, or for that matter, call Emo support. I figured I would be labeled an audio hypochondriac. 

The difference seems to be, at least from what Emo is saying, that with the first problem with Dolby True HD, the UMC-200 was detecting the bitstreamed audio, as the display was correctly saying "Dolby True HD." However, no audio was heard. According to Emo, that means the failure was somewhere within the UMC-200. They had me revert the UMC to .39, and the problem was fixed. However, HDMI 1 had serious handshake problems, so they had me send it back.

Now, with the second unit, the problem with DTS Master bitstreamed is different: The UMC displays "no audio." Per Emo, that means the audio is not even making it to "stage one," meaning in their observation, the problem is in the source, or less likely, my HDMI cables. However, the problem is with THREE different sources I've tried: the PS3 (using Emo's recommended settings), a Samsung blu-ray, and now a Panasonic blu-ray. How could all three sources have the same issue? The probability of that alone is nil. 

While I am hoping it is the HDMI cables (as I have ordered some better ones), I am pretty sure that will not fix the problem, but I have no idea what else to try. I am completely stumped, as is Emo support. They even sent me an e-mail suggesting I just return it for a refund. I told them I had no intent on sending it back, and would use LPCM if no solution can be found. I also want to buy an Oppo 103 in the future, and will just hold out hope that it works with the UMC for bitstreaming BOTH Dolby True HD and DTS Master.

Thanks for you interest. I will post my findings with the new HDMI cables once they arrive, though I think we both know what that answer will be. 

PS. My current HDMI cables are rather generic ones I bought of eBay. I have three or four different kinds, and have tried them all, with nothing working. I ordered an Audioquest Pearl based on the advice of a salesperson I spoke with at a store. If it does not fix the problem, I can also return it. 


 

[bay78]

Apr 26, 2014 21:14:04 GMT -5 davep said:

Sounds like a bit of bad luck with 2 bad units. Third time lucky?

So far Emo hasn't offered that as an option, and I am kinda scared what I would get next! 

[cwt]

Apr 26, 2014 21:32:42 GMT -5 bay78 said:

Apr 26, 2014 21:14:04 GMT -5 davep said:

Sounds like a bit of bad luck with 2 bad units. Third time lucky?

So far Emo hasn't offered that as an option, and I am kinda scared what I would get next! 

The cirrus logic chips may be having lock on issues bay ; what happens when you send dts lossy -does the umc200 say 'dts' - it should ?

when I bitstream DTS HD Master Audio tracks, the UMC-200's display says "no audio" and no sound is heard

.

Now, with the second unit, the problem with DTS Master bitstreamed is different: The UMC displays "no audio.

This sounds like the same problem from your 1st post ? ; I used to do a trick with another cirrus logic pre when I got 'no audio' ; switch to another dsp mode and back so you get a handshake or from 1 hdmi port back to the 1st . Its got to be something simple as dtshdma is packed as lossy + the extension in the same container unlike dolby true hd

[bay78]

cwt -

Yes, when I send a lossy DTS signal (or Dolby Digital for that matter), the UMC-200 correctly says "DTS" or "Dolby Digital."

What I posted yesterday (that you quoted) is the same problem I listed in my first post in this thread. However, in my prior thread, the problem was with Dolby True HD.

I am going to try out your idea about switching DSP modes and see what happens. Emo suggested I try switching to a different input, and then back to the input I am using, to see if that would help the signal lock on.

I am very curious about your last sentence: "Its got to be something simple as dtshdma is packed as lossy + the extension in the same container unlike dolby true hd." Are you saying that DTS HD Master is packed differently than Dolby True HD? I have heard that these two formats have differences, but I don't understand enough about them to know the differences.

Thanks for you help! I will post soon about whether the switching DSP modes works.

Brandon

[bay78]

cwt -

I tried your suggestion about changing sound modes, and at some point I was finally able to get the UMC to display DTS HD, but still no sound. This is progress, as I have never gotten the unit to display that before. But when I changed audio tracks on the disc to something different, and then changed back to the DTS HD track, the UMC again displayed "no audio." But by switching the sound mode to something else and then back again to DTS HD Master, each time I was able to get the UMC to display "DTS-HD" on the second line. But still no sound. 


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[cwt]

Apr 27, 2014 10:40:16 GMT -5 bay78 said:

I am very curious about your last sentence: "Its got to be something simple as dtshdma is packed as lossy + the extension in the same container unlike dolby true hd." Are you saying that DTS HD Master is packed differently than Dolby True HD? I have heard that these two formats have differences, but I don't understand enough about them to know the differences.

Their both lossless Brandon but ddtruehd is a standalone track made up of the mlp codec [ meridian lossless packing - a lossless codec invented by Meridian - also the basis of dvd-a ] a separate lossy 640kbps dd track exists independently . DTSHDMA has both the lossless and lossy tracks in the same 'container' which has certain advantages over the dolby method by using less bandwidth on the disc iirc ; leaving more room for video theoretically

That's encouraging it displays hdma so that means its the umc200 . Cant remember of hand if the umc200 has selective dsp modes for a specific dtshd input but check and disable anything like pl2x in the playback menu ; it can manage it for lpcm certainly as I made changes there Also check any downmix settings are disabled but that's a long shot ..

Before you contact emo again with the new info it may pay to reset to factory default - setup menu > load default ; make note of your eq bass management etc. settings beforehand though as they will be wiped..

[bay78]

Not surprisingly, the new HDMI cables made no difference. Emo support had me test each source by itself, with the other one unplugged from the UMC-200. Nothing worked. Still cannot bitstream DTS-HD Master tracks. Will see what Emo suggests next.

cwt - I did try a reset, both before, and again after you suggested it. Didn't work. But thanks for the idea! 

[shepman]

I have posted this in another thread and just copying it here. Hope it helps.

Exact same thing happened to me. I didn't have a second BluRay player to try but everything else you mentioned is exactly what happened to me. You have to have a PS3 Slim first off because the PS3 Fat (the original PS3) doesn't have the ability to pass the HD versions over HDMI as bitstream. But assuming you have a PS3 Slim, what I ended up doing on advice from Emotiva support is loading the flash update again (which I had done twice already per the normal instructions and both were 'successful') but this time, I ran them all in one shot. Here is part of the email I got from support:

PS3 settings
Video settings:
BD/DVD upscaler normal
Video Output Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr
Cinima Auto
1080p 24Hz off
Dynamic Range Auto
BD/DVD Audio out Bitstream

Display settings:

Video output 1080p
Audio Auto
Cross Color off
RGB full range limited
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr SuperWhite off
Deep Color off

Sound Settings:

Audio output auto
Audio Multi-output off

If you are still having problems...

You need to try the last resort Firmware loading method. As you did before, with the UMC OFF. Open TW_AVR loader, open file, click Re-programming, ALL boxes checked, Start (don’t do anything to the pop-up box). Then turn on the UMC and it should start loading.

[bay78]

I am asking Emo if I should try the firmware. They are wanting me to send the UMC in to them, but I don't want to be without it for as long as I am afraid it will take. Thanks for the idea.

All my PS3 settings are the same as you said. Emo suggested those settings to me awhile back. But I haven't tried the firmware yet.


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[bay78]

I went ahead and redid the firmware. It did not work. Bitstreamed DTS-HD still does not work. Emo is having me send in the UMC for them to evaluate.


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[dlechner]

Did you ever get this fixed? I am having the same issue. The display will show DTS-HD, but no sound. I can switch back to DTS and have sound. this only happens with Bitstream lossless audio.