bootman
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Post by bootman on Jun 1, 2014 16:59:09 GMT -5
The UMC isn't processing video so I don't think there is a "fix". If you want to actively convert video you will need another device for that. Many choices available.  |
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Post by stoopalini on Jun 1, 2014 17:28:44 GMT -5
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 1, 2014 19:19:39 GMT -5
Deep colour causes lots of problems on many processors, displays and AVR's, it's far from an Emotiva only problem.
Personally I don't find deep colour to be attractive. To me it has an unnatural look and it sure as hell isn't the way it was filmed.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by gismo31 on Jun 2, 2014 7:22:26 GMT -5
exactly.... furthermore, if it's unable to pass 12 bits, what else does it do with the video signal ? the question is not to know wich signal 8 or 12 bit is better but how to process it with the umc200 ... it's supposed to be pass trough but obviusly it is not . |
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bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Jun 2, 2014 8:33:04 GMT -5
Again, many other options available if you truly need deep color.
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 2, 2014 8:40:16 GMT -5
If you remain true to the source material the UMC-200 will pass it without issue. There's nothing broken about it. It's only when you try and ask it (the UMC-200) to do something it's not designed to do, which in this instance is video processing. Set your sources to 1080p/24 or 60, 8-bit, 4:2:0 and you should never have an issue.
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Post by stoopalini on Jun 2, 2014 9:16:13 GMT -5
Deep colour causes lots of problems on many processors, displays and AVR's, it's far from an Emotiva only problem. Personally I don't find deep colour to be attractive. To me it has an unnatural look and it sure as hell isn't the way it was filmed. Cheers Gary I just did a few Google searches, and found issues when deep color is turned on in both the source and in a receiver, but I didn't find anything similar to the issue of the UMC-200; where the HDMI won't stay sync'ed if the deep color option in the source is enabled. Just to be clear, I don't care if deep color is on or off. I didn't notice a difference when my PS3 was directly connected to the TV with deep color enabled, over when it was connected through the UMC with deep color disabled. Also, I bought the UMC as an audio device, and am VERY pleased with how it performs in this area. That said, I do find it strange the UMC-200 product page states: 4 HDMI Inputs: all inputs HDMI 1.4 compliant, with 3D and CEC support Exceptional video performance with 4 HDMI 1.4 inputs and one HDMI 1.4 output, with full support for 3D, CEC, and ARC. AD 7623 HDMI switch, with Xpressview™ switching, provides fast, clean input selection. ... and the owner's manual states: Exceptional video quality, with super-fast, error free switching for up to four HDMI 1.4 inputs - with full support for 3D, CEC, and ARC. 6. HDMI Inputs (4) Connect up to four HDMI 1.4 devices to these inputs. The UMC-200 supports all versions of HDMI up to HDMI v1.4 Then when I read through the HDMI specs, support for greater than 24bit (8x8x8) was added with HDMI v1.3 Deep Color™: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification. - Lets HDTVs and other displays go from million of colors to billions of colors. - Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors. - Enables increased contrast ratio - Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white - At 30-bit pixel depth, a four times improvement would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more. Again, I don't really care if deep color works or not, but I completely understand folks who do care being annoyed that the response to this is "It's not worth it, so just turn it off" or "go buy another device if you want deep color". The UMC-200 is clearly marketed as being HDMI 1.4 compliant, yet we are told it won't do Deep Color. These two things are in contradiction to each other. Andrew, How is having Deep Color turned on in a source device asking the UMC to do video processing? |
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Post by thrillcat on Jun 2, 2014 9:39:14 GMT -5
Deep colour causes lots of problems on many processors, displays and AVR's, it's far from an Emotiva only problem. Personally I don't find deep colour to be attractive. To me it has an unnatural look and it sure as hell isn't the way it was filmed. Cheers Gary I just did a few Google searches, and found issues when deep color is turned on in both the source and in a receiver, but I didn't find anything similar to the issue of the UMC-200; where the HDMI won't stay sync'ed if the deep color option in the source is enabled. Just to be clear, I don't care if deep color is on or off. I didn't notice a difference when my PS3 was directly connected to the TV with deep color enabled, over when it was connected through the UMC with deep color disabled. Also, I bought the UMC as an audio device, and am VERY pleased with how it performs in this area. That said, I do find it strange the UMC-200 product page states: 4 HDMI Inputs: all inputs HDMI 1.4 compliant, with 3D and CEC support Exceptional video performance with 4 HDMI 1.4 inputs and one HDMI 1.4 output, with full support for 3D, CEC, and ARC. AD 7623 HDMI switch, with Xpressview™ switching, provides fast, clean input selection. ... and the owner's manual states: Exceptional video quality, with super-fast, error free switching for up to four HDMI 1.4 inputs - with full support for 3D, CEC, and ARC. 6. HDMI Inputs (4) Connect up to four HDMI 1.4 devices to these inputs. The UMC-200 supports all versions of HDMI up to HDMI v1.4 Then when I read through the HDMI specs, support for greater than 24bit (8x8x8) was added with HDMI v1.3 Deep Color™: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification. - Lets HDTVs and other displays go from million of colors to billions of colors. - Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors. - Enables increased contrast ratio - Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white - At 30-bit pixel depth, a four times improvement would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more. Again, I don't really care if deep color works or not, but I completely understand folks who do care being annoyed that the response to this is "It's not worth it, so just turn it off" or "go buy another device if you want deep color". The UMC-200 is clearly marketed as being HDMI 1.4 compliant, yet we are told it won't do Deep Color. These two things are in contradiction to each other. Andrew, How is having Deep Color turned on in a source device asking the UMC to do video processing? HDMI is still just the transport. The UMC-200 is receiving the signal, it just doesn't have the processor to interpret the signal. Think of it this way: If you connect a PAL VHS machine to an NTSC TV, you can send a PAL signal through a composite, s-video, or component cable, but that doesn't mean the NTSC television set will display it - it won't. |
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 2, 2014 9:42:09 GMT -5
Andrew, How is having Deep Color turned on in a source device asking the UMC to do video processing? I didn't mean to say (I'm not sure that I did) that by having Deep Color "on" you were asking the UMC-200 to do video processing. I think the original point of this thread has gotten off topic. The reason this thread exists is because the OP wanted to use a Dune player, which is a non-HDMI certified device -meaning it's EDID information is either non-existent or not delivered properly to the UMC-200's HDMI board. You do not have to be HDMI certified in order to have an HDMI port on your device. Now, you CAN use non-certified HDMI devices with the UMC-200, you just have to be very specific in the source's setup menus in order for the two products to work in harmony. In the case of the Dune, this means setting it to the EXACT specifications of the original source material, which in the OP's case meant 1080p/24, 8-bit color, 4:2:0 subsampling. When using those video settings the OP (and any other Dune owners, myself included) experienced no issues with his playback. When the OP disregarded this advice and attempted to send a signal that was NOT in line with the original source material, the UMC-200 became confused. Because the UMC-200 doesn't have a video processor, it can only pass through what it is given, and when it has no EDID information with which to go off of, and no processor to re-process the incoming signal into a format it "likes" (for lack of a better description) it becomes "confused" and handshake errors abound. It's not that the UMC-200 cannot playback Deep Color content, it can, but it appears to be very hardware or source specific based on how THE SOURCE handles Deep Color and/or EDID. If you happen to have a source that causes the UMC-200 to fluctuate in its performance when Deep Color is enabled, then it is my recommendation that you should disable said "feature" as it's not really providing you with any real advantages -despite what the sales literature dealing with Deep Color may tell you or claim. |
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Post by stoopalini on Jun 2, 2014 10:21:46 GMT -5
HDMI is still just the transport. The UMC-200 is receiving the signal, it just doesn't have the processor to interpret the signal. Think of it this way: If you connect a PAL VHS machine to an NTSC TV, you can send a PAL signal through a composite, s-video, or component cable, but that doesn't mean the NTSC television set will display it - it won't. Exactly, so why doesn't the UMC-200 just pass the signal along? It seems it cannot pass greater than 24bit color video to the connected monitor device; or it can, but does so unreliably. It's not that the UMC-200 cannot playback Deep Color content, it can, but it appears to be very hardware or source specific based on how THE SOURCE handles Deep Color and/or EDID. If you happen to have a source that causes the UMC-200 to fluctuate in its performance when Deep Color is enabled, then it is my recommendation that you should disable said "feature" as it's not really providing you with any real advantages -despite what the sales literature dealing with Deep Color may tell you or claim. This should be the official answer (without the strikeout of course) ... well stated and believable. Although I don't think there's a need to emphasis THE SOURCE, it just makes it seem like you're pointing fingers. Emotiva has a really great product in the UMC-200 ... Stating "greater than 24bit color passthrough is sporadic" does nothing to diminish this (in my opinion anyway), but does show an openness to the customer in admiting a known issue exists; without having to place blame on either the source or the UMC-200 device. It's simply a compatibility issue, and is completely acceptable. Has anyone tried a UMC-200 with a 4k TV yet? I wonder if the same HDMI limitations will exist here as well. I can start a separate thread on this topic though, as it seems this has gotten off topic |
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 2, 2014 10:28:19 GMT -5
Has anyone tried a UMC-200 with a 4k TV yet? I wonder if the same HDMI limitations will exist here as well. I can start a separate thread on this topic though, as it seems this has gotten off topic If you connect a UMC-200 to a 4K/UHD display, you're not going to incur any issues that I can see as the display will see but an HD signal and then upscale said signal to the panel's native resolution, which in this example is 4K/UHD. If you turn on 4K upsampling in your source, say for example an Oppo player, and then try and pass it through the UMC-200 on to a 4K display you'll get nothing -or you may lockup either the Oppo or UMC-200. If you want to pass 4K (3840x2160, 24/30fps, 4:2:0/4:2:2) through to a 4K display then the XMC-1 is likely going to be the processor for you. |
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Post by calypte on Jun 2, 2014 12:09:11 GMT -5
"...with a sanctioned/licensed HDMI capable device like the UMC-200" I just happened to catch this interesting thread. I looked at www.hdmi.org, and Emotiva is not listed as an "adopter." |
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 2, 2014 12:16:05 GMT -5
"...with a sanctioned/licensed HDMI capable device like the UMC-200" I just happened to catch this interesting thread. I looked at www.hdmi.org, and Emotiva is not listed as an "adopter." We are.  |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jun 2, 2014 12:17:39 GMT -5
"...with a sanctioned/licensed HDMI capable device like the UMC-200" I just happened to catch this interesting thread. I looked at www.hdmi.org, and Emotiva is not listed as an "adopter." We are. View AttachmentIt is listed on the HDMI.ORG site under JadeDesign. |
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Post by gismo31 on Jun 2, 2014 14:50:05 GMT -5
maybe i dont speak well enough english but : I DO HAVE THE SAME BUG WITH MY PIONEER LX55 !!!! so please stop talking about the dune not being HDMI compliant... I've even tested this evening with an OPPO 103 and I DO HAVE THE SAME BUG WITH THE OPPO. the video i posted was made with a panasonic BD500. Are all the players not compliant or is there a bug with the umc  did you take time enough to test ? ( a least 10 minutes ? ) i dont uderstand why you keep talking about video processing : the dune, pioneer and oppo work great connected directly, dont when passing through the umc so please note that i'm very happy with umc except this limitation and i really hope you do something about it. |
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Post by gismo31 on Jun 2, 2014 14:51:44 GMT -5
one more to complain about this and now with a PS3... not hdmi compliant neither ? |
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Post by gismo31 on Jun 2, 2014 14:54:12 GMT -5
Again, I don't really care if deep color works or not, but I completely understand folks who do care being annoyed that the response to this is "It's not worth it, so just turn it off" or "go buy another device if you want deep color". The UMC-200 is clearly marketed as being HDMI 1.4 compliant, yet we are told it won't do Deep Color. These two things are in contradiction to each other. Andrew, How is having Deep Color turned on in a source device asking the UMC to do video processing? this resumes exactly what i mean.... thanks |
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 2, 2014 15:16:28 GMT -5
Gismo31 & Stoopalini,
I'll direct you to my earlier post where I concluded by saying the following...
It's not that the UMC-200 cannot playback Deep Color content, it can, but it appears to be very hardware or source specific based on how THE SOURCE handles Deep Color and/or EDID. If you happen to have a source that causes the UMC-200 to fluctuate in its performance when Deep Color is enabled, then it is my recommendation that you should disable said "feature".
We/I have tested the UMC-200 with Deep Color using a variety of different sources. It appears to be an issue that is largely source dependent. Deep Color causes issues for a lot of components, so like CEC, if you happen to be one of the few afflicted by issues when trying to use Deep Color, for whatever reason, I recommend turning it off. You're not gaining/losing anything by having it on or off, save maybe headaches. If the input signal is 8-bit color that's all the color you're ever going to have. Trying to get your setup to believe its receiving or displaying more than that is where the issues arrive. I don't know what else to say on the matter that I haven't already explained.
I, me personally, do not consider it to be a fault with the UMC-200 as I've seen Deep Color work with it (UMC-200) and I've seen what others describe as well. Like I said, it appears to be source/setting specific. But again, me personally, I believe Deep Color is little more than a marketing gimmick, even though in theory the idea of it has merit. Its implementation is what is faulty, and it will forever be hindered by the source material, which in this example is Blu-ray. It's a lot like anamorphic lenses in front of digital projectors using Blu-ray sources. It's a nice idea, and even seems like it would make sense, but in reality there is no actual benefit or improvement to be had because of the original source material.
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Post by bluescale on Jun 2, 2014 18:48:27 GMT -5
Andrew,
It's clear that you don't care for Deep Color. It's also clear that there are people who care for Deep Color. If someone is using a certified 1.4 device, Deep Color should work, correct? Rather than telling people they are using their electronics in a supported manner to di it differently because *you* see no value in it, I'd recommend suggesting people contact technical support.
I for one can verify that the PS3 handles both Deep Color and EDID correctly. If someone's having a problem with that as their source, then something is amiss (and not necessarily with the UMC-200). It's certainly worth investigating.
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Post by amt on Jun 2, 2014 20:29:14 GMT -5
Andrew, How is having Deep Color turned on in a source device asking the UMC to do video processing? I didn't mean to say (I'm not sure that I did) that by having Deep Color "on" you were asking the UMC-200 to do video processing. I think the original point of this thread has gotten off topic. The reason this thread exists is because the OP wanted to use a Dune player, which is a non-HDMI certified device -meaning it's EDID information is either non-existent or not delivered properly to the UMC-200's HDMI board. You do not have to be HDMI certified in order to have an HDMI port on your device. Now, you CAN use non-certified HDMI devices with the UMC-200, you just have to be very specific in the source's setup menus in order for the two products to work in harmony. In the case of the Dune, this means setting it to the EXACT specifications of the original source material, which in the OP's case meant 1080p/24, 8-bit color, 4:2:0 subsampling. When using those video settings the OP (and any other Dune owners, myself included) experienced no issues with his playback. When the OP disregarded this advice and attempted to send a signal that was NOT in line with the original source material, the UMC-200 became confused. Because the UMC-200 doesn't have a video processor, it can only pass through what it is given, and when it has no EDID information with which to go off of, and no processor to re-process the incoming signal into a format it "likes" (for lack of a better description) it becomes "confused" and handshake errors abound. It's not that the UMC-200 cannot playback Deep Color content, it can, but it appears to be very hardware or source specific based on how THE SOURCE handles Deep Color and/or EDID. If you happen to have a source that causes the UMC-200 to fluctuate in its performance when Deep Color is enabled, then it is my recommendation that you should disable said "feature" as it's not really providing you with any real advantages -despite what the sales literature dealing with Deep Color may tell you or claim. I read this, and some of it, IMO, just does not explain the situation well enough. "when it [umc200] has no EDID info with which to go of" -There is EDID information -it comes from the display, not the source. The source device does not and can not provide an EDID. The source device has to probe for the EDID of the sink device in order to understand what the sink supports. In the case of the UMC200, (the first sink device -its hdmi input) it may be passing the EDID info from the "final" sink -the video display (projector, tv, etc), since the umc200 does not have a "real" video processor. If this is happening, those EDID capabilities from the TV would be passed all the way back to the source, the Dune. Then the source assumes all of those modes the TV supports will work -even if the umc200 for some reason cannot work with that signal. Now heres the kicker: the umc200 absolutely has a video processor. It has to if you want on OSD. Any overlay must read & modify the signal to do this overlay. Even the product page states this: The umc200 is not just "passing the bits through". In this case, it is probably dealing with a particular hdmi video mode which works perfectly fine with the display, but fails when it has to modify it for the OSD. My recommendation would be the same as Andrew's, to use a mode = the source material. However, I do disagree on who's "fault" this is. It very clearly appears to be a problem with the umc200. Now, what can you do about that? Probably nothing. As for xmc-1, I hope we don't have this problem again. However, the fact that Emotiva proclaimed that the xmc-1 is hdmi 2.0 compliant, and then later it was retracted (they mis-interpreted the specs), I am no so confident right now. |
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did you take time enough to test ? ( a least 10 minutes ? )
