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Post by Stikky on Jun 14, 2014 22:31:27 GMT -5
That is exactly my question. I have a Samsung surround where all the speakers are apparently 3 ohm. In an effort to reduce hemorrhaging too much cash out of the gate I had planned to purchase the UMC 200, UPA 500 and a HSU VTF-15H right now and the rest of the HSU surround about a month or two later. I had originally thought I would use the Samsung surrounds to fill the void until the new surrounds & center are purchased. I realize now this may not be wise with such a low ohm rating on these speakers. I have included the specs from the owners manual on the Samsung speakers if that will help. They are below. Can I get some advice on this one guys? Appreciate it.
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Post by garbulky on Jun 14, 2014 23:23:14 GMT -5
That is exactly my question. I have a Samsung surround where all the speakers are apparently 3 ohm. In an effort to reduce hemorrhaging too much cash out of the gate I had planned to purchase the UMC 200, UPA 500 and a HSU VTF-15H right now and the rest of the HSU surround about a month or two later. I had originally thought I would use the Samsung surrounds to fill the void until the new surrounds & center are purchased. I realize now this may not be wise with such a low ohm rating on these speakers. I have included the specs from the owners manual on the Samsung speakers if that will help. They are below. Can I get some advice on this one guys? Appreciate it. You will have zero problems driving those speakers. Zero. For this reason. Despite its 3ohm rating, those speakers were meant to be driven with a cheap entry level reciever. Your UPA-500 is better than a cheap receiver. You are giving it better than what it was designed for. Also the UPA-500 is 4 ohm compatible and puts out more curent at 4 ohms than at 8 ohms. This means that it is sturdy enough to handle 4 ohms. 4 ohm speakers will often drop down below 4 ohms. The 4 ohm is a nominal figure. At times a 4 ohm speaker may get down to 2 ohms. The reason they don't put 2 ohm compatible is because 2 ohm speakers may drop down to half an ohm which is a bit different.So rest easy they will sound better than those samsungs ever did before
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2014 0:13:19 GMT -5
I have semi/temporarily come out of semi/temporary-retirement to add agreement to Garbulky's post. Please, no offense intended here, no condescension meant in my remarks. You have made three great choices so far for some of the best bang for the buck products available IMO. The UMC-200 is a superb pre-pro for Under $600, the UPA -5 is a great match for 5 speakers, left, center, right and two surrounds that are efficient as it puts out 80 watts/8 ohms (all channels driven). I am presuming you are looking at the HSU very fine Speaker 5.0 Package for $789 to go along with the HSU VTF-15H. The horn designed HB-1 MK2 and HC-1 MK2 are a great choice (Lounge member Monkumonku will confirm) and be sure you set them up in the UMC-200 speaker setup mode as "small." That means they will play from the crossover frequency you select and up (80Hz is a good choice, ignore the UMC-200 if it sets them as "large") and the VTF-15H sub will cover the re-directed low bass form the 5 speakers plus the LFE frequencies from 80Hz and down. The UPA-500 will just loaf along and sound superb thru the efficient HSU speakers and the VTF-15H with its 350 watts RMS and 1400 watts peak will rattle your bones and the all the neighbor's house foundations with very defined and very low bass. I don't know if you made these choices on your own but kudos to you for so far assembling an awesome system for the money. Many folks waste too much money on big tower speakers when one does not need them with fine bookshelf size speakers and such a good movies/music sub like the VTF-15H. Note the size and weight, it is big and that is part of the reason it is so good. As far as your present Samsung speakers go (here is where the no offense part comes in), from the specs they look like they are from a very inexpensive HTIB (home theater in a box) system. Your speakers weigh one pound or less and the sub only 8 lbs. Compared to the HSU speakers you are considering these are toys comparatively. Just ignore the specs. Be very careful playing these with the UPA-500 until you get the other 5 speakers. Keep the volume level down and do not judge the sound of the UMC-200 and UPA-500 at all until you hook up the new speakers. I think you are going top be stunned by the quality of this system. Great job!
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Post by Stikky on Jun 15, 2014 0:49:39 GMT -5
I sincerely appreciate the responses from both of you so far. I honesty could care less about the speakers (yes they are from about a $300 HTIB system that is 3-4yrs old), I just wanted to make sure the amp wouldn't be unhappy. It sounds like I will be okay for the very short time I have to deal with them before the upgrade.
Garbulky, Thanks for the good info, I was hoping for the answer I wanted to hear so I'm glad you were able to do that with an honest response.
Chuckie, there is no offense taken on any remarks. I came across the Emotiva gear with advice from an uncle that has several components and is a huge fan. Having heard his system sound as amazing as it does I was instantly hooked when got to listen. When I saw the price (and I must admit I'm a fan of the look/color as well) I was convinced this was the route to go for me.
The speaker setup was decided after several months of off/on research and a little luck. Knowing nothing about speakers other than the basics I started with the sub because I wanted that to be amazing. Narrowed it down to a SVS or HSU and decided on VTF-15H having read so many rave reviews from current users. The rest were chosen at first because HSU had a great package deal but were confirmed after I compared stats from the speakers and the amp I had chosen. I got some great feedback about this setup a few months ago from other members of this forum and that basically solidified my decision.
We move into a new house in 2 weeks and that is the anticipated delivery time for most of the pieces (placing order next week). Although I have the cash to purchase everything now; the other half and I agreed to hold off on the extra $1,000 I'd spend on speakers until we are a little more settled in. I'm sure there's a pot-n-pan set or some curtain's I'll have to purchase in the near future. If she's letting me drop $3,000 on a new surround setup I better leave some reserve to buy her something she wants.
Thanks again, I'm even more excited to get everything hooked up!
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Post by creimes on Jun 15, 2014 1:44:19 GMT -5
Another good Brand of speakers with crazy value that have been mentioned here are the EMP Tek speakers. emptek.com/index.phpChad
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Post by calypte on Jun 21, 2014 0:32:30 GMT -5
That means they will play from the crossover frequency you select and up (80Hz is a good choice, ignore the UMC-200 if it sets them as "large") My current set-up is (don't laugh!) five identical Boston Acoustics A40 Series II. There's probably only $200 worth of speakers, since I bought most of them off eBay. I got pretty good at refoaming woofers and (occasionally) replacing tweeters. Emo-Q set the crossover to 90Hz for the front speakers and 120Hz for the rears, even though all speakers are absolutely identical. After running Emo-Q, I went into the setup menues and adjusted the crossover frequency to 80Hz all around. But Emo-Q gets the volume equal all around as heard from the listening position, which I was never able to do very well on my own, even when using the Radio Shack meter. The complaints I've seen here and elsewhere about Emo-Q being "permanently broken," etc., are lost on me. Stikky: let me know what you think of the Hsu speakers. I have the Hsu VTF-3 Mk 4 sub. I listened to the complete HB-1 Mk 2 and HC-1 Mk 2 system on two different occasions at Hsu Research HQ in Anaheim, and I didn't like them. My opinions are detailed in another thread. But I'd certainly like to hear your opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2014 1:43:11 GMT -5
Calypte, those A40's are decent speakers and nothing to apologize about. Having all five identical speakers around is theoretically ideal for 360 degree cohesive surround sound all with identical voice/timbre. The original's were down -3dB's at about 68Hz. In that case I would set the crossover for all five at 90Hz. If the sub(s) are at or near the front of the room you should have a smooth blend and not be able to locate the position of the sub(s). You could even try 100Hz. You have an excellent sub in the VTF-3 Mk 4.
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Post by calypte on Jun 21, 2014 22:24:22 GMT -5
Calypte, those A40's are decent speakers and nothing to apologize about. Having all five identical speakers around is theoretically ideal for 360 degree cohesive surround sound all with identical voice/timbre. The original's were down -3dB's at about 68Hz. In that case I would set the crossover for all five at 90Hz. If the sub(s) are at or near the front of the room you should have a smooth blend and not be able to locate the position of the sub(s). You could even try 100Hz. You have an excellent sub in the VTF-3 Mk 4. Ten years ago we had a household flood. For several months our entire HT system was disassembled as we replaced flooring, did mold remediation, repainted, etc. Around that time an article appeared in Ultimate AV magazine (remember that one?) promoting the idea of identical speakers all around. We already had two Boston A40 Series IIs, bought many years earlier, so when it came time to put everything back together, I bought more A40s off eBay to experiment with the set-up. It worked very well. If I had already owned two monitor-type speakers of another brand, I would have probably bought them instead. The A40s are a bit shy at the top, and the sound gets congested at high levels. But, as you suggest, for home theater the sound field is seamless. Complete A40s, parts, and woofer refoam kits are readily available on eBay. When I get my Maggies all repaired, I'll probably try them again for HT. We've moved since that flood, and I have better electronics and a new plasma display. If the Maggies don't work as I'd like, I'll be looking at newer monitor-type speakers. I was attracted to the Hsu speakers, because they can easily handle high volume levels, and they're not very expensive. Test reports and user reviews are very positive, but I didn't like what I heard at Hsu's HQ. I'm baffled that what I heard differs so strikingly from the reviews.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2014 23:28:05 GMT -5
There was an listening evaluation/A-B comparison in a magazine some time ago, maybe in the late 90's. I can't seem to find it but I clearly remember the general idea. They had a panel of expert listeners. All components were the exact same except for system A and B speakers that were compared in a blind test.
System A consisted of 5 speakers of very high quality and quite pricey. I can't remember the exact brands and models but they were ones you would recognize as high end brands and somewhat expensive (maybe in the $1200-$2000 each range and up). The L&R were of course identical, the center was from another brand and the surrounds were again from a different brand. Thus the five speakers were not voice/timbre matched but selected to be a good match.
System B consisted of five identical speakers. They were all Radio Shack bookshelf speakers somewhere in the $150 each or so range. Some folks here will remember that RS sold some fairly decent speakers in those days.
The music I believe was very low bass limited not to handicap the RS smaller speakers. After the comparison was finished, all in the panel chose system B as the best overall surround sound performance. They were all shocked when they discovered the identity of the speakers in system B. It was mentioned that system A had some particular performance areas that were better but the overall smoothness and coherence of system B earned the winning votes.
Sorry, my memory is quite fuzzy on some of the details. However, my memory of the test panel's great surprise after choosing B and the lesson about matched if not identical speakers was strongly implanted in my brain all these years. If only I could locate that test. It would come in handy for me when I hear so many folks say that surround speaker matching is not necessary and some even say that for the center speaker too.
IMO the advantage is clearly audible and worth far more than agonizing over the frequently minute or questionable advantage among speaker wires, interconnects, etc., and other accessories and components and even room treatments. Don't misunderstand here, I think room treatments are very effective but am amazed at those who spend lots of time and money on them while ignoring the mismatch in voicing and timbre among their speakers. How can they hear the relatively small differences in amps and pre-pro's but not the smoothness of matched speakers. I think many times it is because they have their mind made up and have never tried a matched set.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Jun 22, 2014 0:04:04 GMT -5
Great story, @chuckienut. Blind testing is the great equalizer. I think most dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles would be shocked with the results if they were subjected to a blind test. I'd love to have my four surround channels be identical to my mains, but I cannot afford $3,000 to make that happen yet. I did go with speakers from the same brand though. One of these days I will upgrade the surrounds...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 1:26:47 GMT -5
I think the development of dedicated surround designs like the dipole/bipole but with matching drivers is the best bet nowadays or at least surround bookshelf speakers within the same series with matching drivers. My Emo ERD-1 surrounds are a good example. In effect you have almost the identical speaker at least in the main frequency range as far as voice/timbre. Five identical speakers that are bookshelf size would be practical blended with a good sub but five towers might be impractical in most people rooms.
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Post by calypte on Jun 22, 2014 8:51:35 GMT -5
I remember the test with the Radio Shack speakers. It also made a big impression on me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 22:44:19 GMT -5
I remember the test with the Radio Shack speakers. It also made a big impression on me. Wow! Thanks Calypte! I would sure appreciate it if you or another member here could offer a link or copy or reference info on that test including what publication it appeared in? Many of the details are vague in my mind as to the brands and models and some of the specifics of the test. The conclusion was a shocker and so important to me in developing in my mind and future systems the importance of voice/timbre matching in all 5 or more speakers, regardless of price, that it stick with me.
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Post by calypte on Jun 30, 2014 23:59:03 GMT -5
I thought the article about the RS speaker set-up was in Stereophile or in Stereophile Guide to Home Theater, but I no longer have the article, and I have no link to it.
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