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Post by ronkuper on Jun 28, 2014 9:14:30 GMT -5
If your preferred choice is 200 w power amp or XPA-1 L while not going for the DAC Haven't made a choice yet. The dilemma expressed in this thread is about choosing between a new DAC or a new Amp. I just thought of the UMC-200 as a 7.1ch. HDMI DAC... Am I missing something substantial by not counting in proper stereo DACs? (btw the UPA-500 was combined with the UMC-200 since currently my receiver is doing both the A/V and amp'ing the surrounds so I wanted to replace it completely and sell it if going that route) ...go straight for the XPA-1 L's. These can be considered your very last amp I'm aware of that and also of their currently attractive price. But it would be rather disappointing to pay 1554$ (the discount price + shipping + customs for 2 units), waiting 40 days for it to arrive and not hearing anything substantially improved  That is why I thought about getting a high-end amp from a local shop just to see the potential in replacing my current amp before making a decision. |
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222 
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Post by novisnick on Jun 28, 2014 10:12:17 GMT -5
We need to start a thread named "XPA-1L's Just Do It" LOL creimes... It does put some buying pressure on. So guys - from your experience and own opinion and from the specs of my current speakers and amp do you believe there would be an audible improvement in SQ? I do like to listen at reference levels and louder. At the moment I can't tell that the amp is being pushed to its limits but I had nothing to compare it with. (Not even trying to grasp the merits of the 35W Class A... that would be like a bonus) Thanks, Ron Chad, I thought I did start a thread by that name at one time,,,,,,, Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Do it, Do it, Do it Wasn't that It  ??,,,,, he,,,,,,he,,,,,he,,,,,,, |
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Post by creimes on Jun 28, 2014 10:17:01 GMT -5
Where do you live, are you in Canada by chance, I'm about 1 hour from the U.S border and just have my stuff delivered to a company that takes packages for you and then you just drive across the border to pick up your packages and the border only makes me pay taxes, so it works out to the price of the gear in Canadian funds, my 13% tax and a little bit of gas, but saves me big time from having it shipped to my door.
Chad
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Post by ronkuper on Jun 28, 2014 12:28:17 GMT -5
Hi Chad, Unfortunately I live in lovely Israel where, sadly, we have a crazy 35% tax for imported A/V stuff  Also shipping is not cheap for these 40kg babies (together) at about 200$. |
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Post by creimes on Jun 28, 2014 12:52:36 GMT -5
Hi Chad, Unfortunately I live in lovely Israel where, sadly, we have a crazy 35% tax for imported A/V stuff Also shipping is not cheap for these 40kg babies (together) at about 200$. Ahhh that is crappy, and I thought our 13% tax was bad, well whatever you decide on the addiction only gets worse haha Chad |
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Post by ronkuper on Jun 28, 2014 13:20:58 GMT -5
Yeah... luckily I'm into just audio and not say.. cars. Thank the lord each morning for that  |
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
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Post by novisnick on Jun 28, 2014 13:25:51 GMT -5
Yeah... luckily I'm into just audio and not say.. cars. Thank the lord each morning for that But if you were into cars, I'm sure it would have a nice sounding set of pipes on it!!!!,,,,,,, he,,,,,,,he,,,,,,,  |
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Post by knucklehead on Jun 28, 2014 13:53:38 GMT -5
I may have missed it so I'll ask: What is your Nad not delivering? What are you missing? Because you did say you like your setup. It is now that I left with electronics which were there from the start before I knew better. So, to be honest it is mostly about what I fear I might be missing than what I find missing at the moment. I suggest you take a step backwards (maybe a giant one) and rethink this. Audible changes with an amp change is subtle at best. Speakers will produce audible changes - and often for the worse if they don't interact with your listening space. You are getting advice from guys that fawn over mono-block amps. I've had them - I've had 2 3 5 and 7 channel amps. All of them performed very well in the conditions for which I used them. Mono-block amps are great if you have the money for them. If you simply MUST have large amounts of power then get the mono-block amps. But I'd be willing to bet that unless you listen at very high SPL you won't hear much of a difference between the Nad and most any pair of mono-block amps - and most likely none at all. I've seen it all on this forum over the years. We had a guy start a thread with "What am I missing?" a couple of years ago. Members here hyped up his expectations for an external amp for his AVR - when he decided to bite on it and got the XPA-5 IIRC - he was almost immediately disappointed - and voiced his 'findings' in that thread. The poor guy got lambasted for his 'apparent' bad hearing - room interactions are crap - etc etc. Like I said - if you have the money... It seems almost like a blood-sport here with everyone trying to help you spend your money. Why should they care? /rant ! |
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Post by ronkuper on Jun 28, 2014 14:26:37 GMT -5
Thanks Ken, I appreciate your post and POV. Just from reading on the Internet (as I have no first hand reference) my current reasoning is that more power, if currently lacking, will be the only audible improvement which is worthwhile beyond braggin' rights for a superior gear. As I don't have experience in these scenarios and the math involved I was hopping that posting the specs of my gear will get an educated theoretical answer into whether the listening set could use more power or not. Same with the DAC decision, I can't imagine how an improved S/N (etc..) would sound like so shared experience is all that's left. I do like to listen to EDM at high SPL (>85dB). I guess the best thing for me to do now is take a high-end amp from a local shop (I happen to have a few nearby) and hear for myself if the difference is worth it or not. If only just to 'cure the bug' and let my thoughts wander to someplace else where I could ill-spend my hard earned money I don't really have  Cheers, Ron |
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Post by creimes on Jun 28, 2014 14:32:58 GMT -5
It is true at times of over spending anothers money haha, the three biggest changes for me have been my first purchase of well performing speakers, second for me adding external amps on my Yamaha AVR yielded better results and third was room treatments to tone down the reflections interfering with the sound coming from the speakers, amp changes for me have been subtle but the difference for me is there, my LPA-1 sounds less dynamic and punchy than my 1L's or my previous XPA-5 and XPA-2 I have owned. I like to listen loudly(I can usually tell as my wife will start yelling ) and I find with external amps over my previous AVR experience it has much cleaner and clearer sound in doing so, for example when I throw on Nine Inch Nails Blu-ray it sounds awesome really loud. Chad |
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Post by ronkuper on Jun 28, 2014 14:36:45 GMT -5
Really better than the same SPL with just your AVR / XPA-5 /2?
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Post by garbulky on Jun 28, 2014 14:43:58 GMT -5
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Post by creimes on Jun 28, 2014 14:44:23 GMT -5
Really better than the same SPL with just your AVR? Well it has been about 4 or 5 years since I went from my Yamaha AVR power to adding UPA-1's but I can still remember noticing that the sound coming from my speakers was just clearer, remember that everyone has different experiences as we all don't hear the same, my dad for example isn't one to probably notice something like that and yes his hearing is fine lol. It all starts at the source, I find Emotiva gear to be neutral so what goes in comes out, you need to have a quality source to begin with. Trying out something local will at least give you the idea if in fact you are needing an upgrade. Chad |
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Post by ronkuper on Jun 28, 2014 14:48:15 GMT -5
my dad for example isn't one to probably notice something like that and yes his hearing is fine lol Lucky bloke |
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Post by 1960broookwood on Jun 28, 2014 14:48:33 GMT -5
I have to agree with Ken.
I "upgraded" my Aventage with a 350w 7 channel monster of an external amplifier--it didn't do a thing for the quality of the sound and made my electric bill go up.
FWIW the 2 best sounding amps I own are 35w/ch and 8.5w/ch--and have a pretty glow from the output tubes
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Post by ronkuper on Jun 28, 2014 14:50:40 GMT -5
FWIW the 2 best sounding amps I own are 35w/ch and 8.5w/ch--and have a pretty glow from the output tubes Been reading stuff like that a lot... Perhaps also somewhat true for the 1L's 35w Class-A (compared to A/B amps, not tubes) or is that just seriously wishful thinking?  |
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Post by knucklehead on Jun 28, 2014 15:02:46 GMT -5
Questions: Do you hear any clipping with your current setup? How loud do you listen? Your Nad should have a volume scale readout in db's. If you imagine that you're missing something with your current setup what makes you think you won't be wondering the same thing after spending thousands? You're in good company if you think that after an upgrade. The real problem is you don't know for sure. And regardless of which setup you have unless you can quit asking yourself that long enough to just sit down and listen to what you have you won't be happy with it. So sit back for a few days and try to enjoy what you have. And by all means give that big amp a tryout and see if it does for you what you think it should. Just be honest with what you really hear. Good amps all do the same thing - amplify - and the slight differences are just that slight. That is where most audiophiles get into trouble and start chasing their own tails. Be honest with yourself - like that guy in the "What am I Missing?" thread. I doubt he's still an active member here - all because that Emotiva amp didn't make a difference for him. Don't get me wrong - if you need an amp Emotiva amps are as good as any other amp IMO. |
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Post by ronkuper on Jun 28, 2014 16:19:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the reality check Ken. Questions: Do you hear any clipping with your current setup? How loud do you listen? Your Nad should have a volume scale readout in db's. The NAD's preamp is bypassed so the volume knob is not doing anything (used as a power amp). The Yamaha is set to 0.0dB since I can hear hissing if going higher. I use JRiver MC's internal volume control which in these settings 90% measures 82.5dB(A) at the listening position when playing the JRiver's audio calibration pink noise -20dBFS at both front speakers. Cheers, Ron |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 28, 2014 16:25:17 GMT -5
I seeing a lot of the "first room treatments", "always do room treatments", "room treatments area a must do" which sometimes borders on paranoia. So a bit of balance perhaps, in my listening room (the lounge room) room treatments basically made no difference whatsoever to the sound. Keeping in mind that it has thick carpet, double curtains on the windows, cathedral ceilings, no bare walls and it opens out to a huge space. As a result acoustically it's pretty damn good. I have free access to truck loads, literally, of acoustic mats, screens, reflectors, diffusors. bass traps etc and I've tried many combinations. The best improvement was negligible at best, many attempts were complete failures. In contrast my uncle's place has bare polished floor boards, lots of uncovered windows, 9' ceilings, little wall coverings and what's there is glass covered etc etc. Acoustically it was sh** (that's a technical term for not very good) and as a result took about a truck load, literally, of treatment to tame it down to reasonable levels. So acoustic treatments can be a benefit, but it depends on the starting point, sometimes the result is fantastic, sometimes it's a waste of time, money and effort.
My view, a good amp sounds better than a bad amp in any conditions.
BTW, "40 days delivery".....what........I'm in Australia which is a dam sight further away from Emotiva town than you and the worst I have had is 12 days. How's it being delivered, by row boat to cross the Atlantic and then camel train through the desert?
Cheers
Gary
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Storm Angel
Sensei
Storm Chaser / Nature Photographer.. Avid Audio enthusiast and Cycad collector.
Posts: 132
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Post by Storm Angel on Jun 28, 2014 16:43:04 GMT -5
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??,,,,, he,,,,,,he,,,,,he,,,,,,,
