JayZ
Minor Hero
Posts: 36
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Post by JayZ on Jul 1, 2014 6:45:32 GMT -5
Emotiva Sales just informed me that XPR amplifiers are not available to international customers - Very disappointing to say the least.
I have been a member of this forum for a good few years - but probably will not be so for much longer. Just thinking of all these years I was here, reading all the new threads almost every day and eagerly looking forward to a chance to upgrade - its been a waste I think.
I need to upgrade from my current XPA-1s so most likely will be looking elsewhere. Oh well.
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Post by stads77 on Jul 1, 2014 7:03:02 GMT -5
Seems you are being a little harsh, why not buy something else without having to completely abandon a company (and it's forum?) because it can not sustain shipping out XPR's abroad until their European warehouse is open. That is quite a predicament to be in to "need to upgrade from XPA1's"
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Post by rogersch on Jul 1, 2014 7:16:36 GMT -5
until their European warehouse is open I don't think this will happen somewhere in the near future...
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Post by chaosrv on Jul 1, 2014 7:22:53 GMT -5
Agreed. I think your reaction is a bit harsh. Emotiva ships the XPR amps on palettes here in the states. I can only imagine the difficulty to ship them internationally. I would have to imagine it would not be cost effective to ship a single amp (or even a pair) in a similar fashion. Not to mention the logistical headaches of shipping a single palette overseas.
If you really need to upgrade, you could always buy another pair of XPA-1s and bi-amp your speakers.
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Post by mushroomking on Jul 1, 2014 7:27:40 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of that! And I've been putting money away for one of those bad boys ...... until their European warehouse is open. Still will not help us down under either even though we're closer to China (where they're made) then the US. Wouldn't it make sense to open a distribution base near the manufacturer? You can try getting a US postal address if you're really keen on obtaining one. There are plenty of services available to do it that way.
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JayZ
Minor Hero
Posts: 36
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Post by JayZ on Jul 1, 2014 7:29:52 GMT -5
>> Seems you are being a little harsh, why not buy something else without having to completely abandon a company
Yes that is because I feel let down. And my frustration for blindly following the threads here without realizing I could not get one even if I wanted.
>> That is quite a predicament to be in to "need to upgrade from XPA1's"
Yes there are quite a few parameters that can be improved upon even with XPA-1s - apart from power rating of course which is more than adequate for my requirement.
>>because it can not sustain shipping out XPR's abroad until their European warehouse is open
Hmm, I wasn't even made aware of this - probably means we are looking at several years for it to happen?
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jul 1, 2014 8:02:52 GMT -5
Emotiva Sales just informed me that XPR amplifiers are not available to international customers - Very disappointing to say the least. I have been a member of this forum for a good few years - but probably will not be so for much longer. Just thinking of all these years I was here, reading all the new threads almost every day and eagerly looking forward to a chance to upgrade - its been a waste I think. I need to upgrade from my current XPA-1s so most likely will be looking elsewhere. Oh well. Curious what loudspeakers you have that would make you think that you need to upgrade from a pair of XPA-1s to XPR amplifiers? I'm not trying to diminish your personal feelings, but depending upon your loudspeakers the audible difference between the two amps may be difficult to discern. If anything, and this is just me, as good (or great) as the XPR amplifiers are, I find the XPA amps, especially the XPA-1, to be the "better" sounding of the two lines. Have you considered the XPA-1 Gen 2s?
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igor
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Posts: 95
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Post by igor on Jul 1, 2014 8:06:46 GMT -5
JayZ, where are you from? I've used a separate re-shipping company for this to Sweden, not XPRs but similar weight and volume, and I'm sure there are companies too, but I used shopusa.com. At the time their shipping price was similar to EMOs, you get a virtual address in Virginia that EMO ships to, and they handle it from there to your door, and include paying tolls etc in the service, the only thing is that the cheaper version is by sea so it may take a while until you get them. They handle cars too so I think XPRs should be ok =).
Hope this helps!
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Post by Priapulus on Jul 1, 2014 8:24:08 GMT -5
Anything can be shipped anywhere these days; if your willing to throw enough money at it. Phone EMO and find out what their concern is, and negotiate a solution.
Note: in a company, everyone, even the lowliest new hire gofer, has the authority to say NO. You have to get high enough in the command structure to find someone who is able to say YES. Don't waste time arguing with underlings, they can't help you...
Sincerely /b
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jul 1, 2014 8:32:29 GMT -5
Anything can be shipped anywhere these days; if your willing to throw enough money at it. Phone EMO and find out what their concern is, and negotiate a solution. Note: in a company, everyone, even the lowliest new hire gofer, has the authority to say NO. You have to get high enough in the command structure to find someone who is able to say YES. Don't waste time arguing with underlings, they can't help you... Sincerely /b Please don't infer or call our dedicated sales men and women "gofers" or "underlings." They're people just like you or me doing their best, and deserve better than to be called names on an Internet forum.
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JayZ
Minor Hero
Posts: 36
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Post by JayZ on Jul 1, 2014 9:22:24 GMT -5
Curious what loudspeakers you have that would make you think that you need to upgrade from a pair of XPA-1s to XPR amplifiers? I'm not trying to diminish your personal feelings, but depending upon your loudspeakers the audible difference between the two amps may be difficult to discern. As stated in my signature, I have a pair of PMC PB1i Signature Speakers. Also, I have read several of your posts describing how you find B&W 80x series to be good speakers to demonstrate the capabilities of amplifiers which I think is way off the mark so I will say nothing else other than that I am a regular visitor to Audio shows in Europe ( I missed the Munich show but did manage to attend the Cranage Hall audio show a couple of weeks back) and I rarely see B&W speakers being used to demonstrate hi-end components (unless with Classe of course which is affiliated to B&W) - anyway I had to say all that just to point out there is a whole world out there beyond popular HIFI. If anything, and this is just me, as good (or great) as the XPR amplifiers are, I find the XPA amps, especially the XPA-1, to be the "better" sounding of the two lines. Have you considered the XPA-1 Gen 2s? You would need to elaborate clearly what your definition of "better" is. We are comparing top-end products here so it should be possible to name very specific strengths of each amp. A while back, I posted a question asking how XPA-1 Gen1s compare with XPA-1 Gen2 but didn't get any useful feedback. Perhaps you should answer that here? So why do I need XPR amps? Its because I would like better clarity, grace and nuance across the entire band - more detail overall really. I am a big fan of identifying fine textures of various instruments all the way from violin to percussion drums - we are talking here about very detailed (yet non-fatiguing) highs, improved transparency in the mid band (again, more mid-range detail) and tighter, better defined lows. Yes XPA-1 Gen1s have tons of reserve power/ headroom etc. but the world does not end there.
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Post by wizardofoz on Jul 1, 2014 9:39:18 GMT -5
JayZ where are you living... as noted there are many international shipping options to many countries that will accept a USA based shipped item and then send it int'l for you.
many use this option in Singapore and in fact even the local post office has a USA drop box option for this kind of thing. While some restrictions do apply, there are others I have used that will ship anything. We even did a mass order (group buy) that shipped $35K worth of gear in one go, we even had it all collected together from Franklin and shipped direct to Singapore saving a lot of costs for all they got gear and even XPR series amps too! These guys will even ship cars!!!
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Post by brand on Jul 1, 2014 9:41:10 GMT -5
Anything can be shipped anywhere these days; if your willing to throw enough money at it. Phone EMO and find out what their concern is, and negotiate a solution. Note: in a company, everyone, even the lowliest new hire gofer, has the authority to say NO. You have to get high enough in the command structure to find someone who is able to say YES. Don't waste time arguing with underlings, they can't help you... Sincerely /b International customer here. I've only ever talked to Emotiva through Email and most of the time I was contacted by Nick so not sure your assessment holds up. Also arrogant much? I'm guessing Emotiva won't ship to Europe because UPS/Fedex won't. There are a lot of shipping companies that do like other people already mentioned. Have Emo ship the XPR's to the company and they will do the rest. No reason to look elsewhere
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jul 1, 2014 9:41:36 GMT -5
Curious what loudspeakers you have that would make you think that you need to upgrade from a pair of XPA-1s to XPR amplifiers? I'm not trying to diminish your personal feelings, but depending upon your loudspeakers the audible difference between the two amps may be difficult to discern. As stated in my signature, I have a pair of PMC PB1i Signature Speakers. Also, I have read several of your posts describing how you find B&W 80x series to be good speakers to demonstrate the capabilities of amplifiers which I think is way off the mark so I will say nothing else other than that I am a regular visitor to Audio shows in Europe ( I missed the Munich show but did manage to attend the Cranage Hall audio show a couple of weeks back) and I rarely see B&W speakers being used to demonstrate hi-end components (unless with Classe of course which is affiliated to B&W) - anyway I had to say all that just to point out there is a whole world out there beyond popular HIFI. If anything, and this is just me, as good (or great) as the XPR amplifiers are, I find the XPA amps, especially the XPA-1, to be the "better" sounding of the two lines. Have you considered the XPA-1 Gen 2s? You would need to elaborate clearly what your definition of "better" is. We are comparing top-end products here so it should be possible to name very specific strengths of each amp. A while back, I posted a question asking how XPA-1 Gen1s compare with XPA-1 Gen2 but didn't get any useful feedback. Perhaps you should answer that here? So why do I need XPR amps? Its because I would like better clarity, grace and nuance across the entire band - more detail overall really. I am a big fan of identifying fine textures of various instruments all the way from violin to percussion drums - we are talking here about very detailed (yet non-fatiguing) highs, improved transparency in the mid band (again, more mid-range detail) and tighter, better defined lows. Yes XPA-1 Gen1s have tons of reserve power/ headroom etc. but the world does not end there. Just trying to be helpful, not sure why you felt the need to insult me. I put the word "better" in quotes because at the end of the day what makes a product better or worse is entirely subjective, which you've so eloquently pointed out in your initial reply back to me about B&W speakers. I stand by my assertion however that based on your speakers' efficiency the XPA-1s you currently own have more than sufficient power and power reserves that I doubt there will be that noticeable (if any) difference between the XPA-1 and XPR amps. And I'm not saying this to assuage you, it's just math. Your speakers are 87dB efficient with a 6 Ohm load, not super efficient but efficient enough that when driven by a 600/1,000 Watt mono like your XPA-1, you're never going to tax the amplifier. You would have to be listening at such insane volumes that force your speaker to hit peaks in excess of 115dB repeatedly to justify the leap in your situation from the XPA-1 to the XPR-1 -in my humble opinion. Repeated aural bludgeoning in excess of 100dB on a regular basis can cause permanent hearing loss, so going 15dB above that would be like listening to your music at constant gunshot levels every time you hit play. I doubt you're doing that as you sound like a seasoned audiophile/listener. If your speakers were less efficient or presented a more difficult load I would likely agree with you, and maybe even steer you towards the XPR-1, but in your case I don't think you'll benefit all that much. Again, just trying to be helpful.
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,333
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Post by DYohn on Jul 1, 2014 9:45:24 GMT -5
If you really want XPR amps (or anything elkse not normally shipped outside the US) all you need to do is make arrangements with an international reshipper. There are thousands to choose from. Google is your friend.
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Post by boomzilla on Jul 1, 2014 9:54:54 GMT -5
Shipping in general (and international shipping in particular) has just abysmal service on heavy packages. My damage rate on packages over 100 pounds is about 75%. Further, shippers fight tooth and nail to avoid paying freight damage claims. Any excuse will do.
I no longer ship internationally. I'm reluctant to ship any 100# plus object domestically unless I have the original manufacturer's packing AND the shipment can be insured for full value.
The majority of eBay sellers who quote a flat shipping rate have no idea what they're doing. When they find out the actual shipping costs, they repackage with minimal protection to decrease the package size and weight. This, of course, increases the likelihood of damage.
Be very, very cautious on heavy shipments if you're a buyer - Insist on factory packaging and encourage the seller to buy shipping insurance.
If you're a seller, be advised that eBay will ALWAYS side with they buyer on any item with even questionable damage. The shipping companies will ALWAYS claim "improper packing" as an excuse to avoid claim payment. The only way to protect yourself, as a seller is to:
1. Use the manufacturer's original packing or 2. Double box with 3" of insulation per box and take photos of every step of the packing process. Use only new materials (used boxes are considered "improper packing"). Photograph the condition of the box as it is delivered to the carrier. Should it arrive damaged, ask the recipient to photograph the condition of the boxing BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER unwrapping. These photos WILL be needed to successfully pursue any shipping-damage claim with the carrier.
Cheers - Boom
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jul 1, 2014 10:02:46 GMT -5
Yes XPA-1 Gen1s have tons of reserve power/ headroom etc. but the world does not end there. Not sure why I'm dipping my toes back into these waters but if power and power reserves are truly what you're after and you cannot get what you really want in a pair of XPR-1s. May I suggest you look at the Crown XLS line of amplifiers, specifically the XLS 2500 which you buy two, run them in mono, and feed each speaker up to 2400 Watts! (That's 2400 Watts into 4 Ohms, the 8 Ohm power rating is 1550 Watts.) That's a lot of juice on tap, not to mention the XLS 2500 amplifiers are compact, available most everywhere and should work great with your speakers given the brand's lineage stemming from the pro audio world. It's an option.
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Post by boomzilla on Jul 1, 2014 10:58:15 GMT -5
+1 for the Crown XLS series - they're AWESOME (and sound far better then one would expect for a "Pro" amp).
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JayZ
Minor Hero
Posts: 36
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Post by JayZ on Jul 1, 2014 11:07:47 GMT -5
Not sure why I'm dipping my toes back into these waters but if power and power reserves are truly what you're after and you cannot get what you really want in a pair of XPR-1s. May I suggest you look at the Crown XLS line of amplifiers, specifically the XLS 2500 which you buy two, run them in mono, and feed each speaker up to 2400 Watts! (That's 2400 Watts into 4 Ohms, the 8 Ohm power rating is 1550 Watts.) That's a lot of juice on tap, not to mention the XLS 2500 amplifiers are compact, available most everywhere and should work great with your speakers given the brand's lineage stemming from the pro audio world. It's an option. Apologies, I may have mis-communicated what I wanted to say. What I meant to say was that yes the XPA-1s have tons of power but that does not mean they excel equally well in every other aspect - compared to the competition of course. Also I have to make this clear - I have been a fan of Emotiva for a number of years because the price to performance ratio is great and I like the way Dan and Lonnie keep in close touch with their customers so I would be the last person to criticize Emotiva products. However, the fact that XPRs can't be shipped overseas came as a shock - then your post questioning my judgement. I am not a trained critical listener and I don't claim to have John Atkinson's ears but I do have a reasonable understanding of the various traits of audio reproduction that I am sensitive to.
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jul 1, 2014 11:14:28 GMT -5
Not sure why I'm dipping my toes back into these waters but if power and power reserves are truly what you're after and you cannot get what you really want in a pair of XPR-1s. May I suggest you look at the Crown XLS line of amplifiers, specifically the XLS 2500 which you buy two, run them in mono, and feed each speaker up to 2400 Watts! (That's 2400 Watts into 4 Ohms, the 8 Ohm power rating is 1550 Watts.) That's a lot of juice on tap, not to mention the XLS 2500 amplifiers are compact, available most everywhere and should work great with your speakers given the brand's lineage stemming from the pro audio world. It's an option. Apologies, I may have mis-communicated what I wanted to say. What I meant to say was that yes the XPA-1s have tons of power but that does not mean they excel equally well in every other aspect - compared to the competition of course. Also I have to make this clear - I have been a fan of Emotiva for a number of years because the price to performance ratio is great and I like the way Dan and Lonnie keep in close touch with their customers so I would be the last person to criticize Emotiva products. However, the fact that XPRs can't be shipped overseas came as a shock - then your post questioning my judgement. I am not a trained critical listener and I don't claim to have John Atkinson's ears but I do have a reasonable understanding of the various traits of audio reproduction that I am sensitive to. I'm sorry if you felt that I questioned your judgement as that was not my intent. I was merely trying to offer up another way of looking at the issue at hand. I can appreciate wanting to make a change in order to see what that change brings about for your system. My initial post and advice to you was not intended as an attack, or in any way to suggest that your reasoning, or better yet, desire, to upgrade as being a bad thing. I just wanted to offer what I felt was some helpful guidance. I still stand by my advice, though will admit that perhaps my tone was lacking and for that I apologize to you and to anyone else who may have read it different than how I intended it.
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