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Post by neo20013 on Jul 1, 2014 12:33:44 GMT -5
I have to applaud andrew attitude, as i always enjoy when an employer of a company actually tries to persuade us NOT to buy a product (especially one as expensive as the XPR line). Usually, they are trying to convince us that cable X (that by chance they sell) will bring amazing improvements ... As such, i think you wont have a better and honest advice that the one already provided. If you really want a XPR, you could use a Parcel forwarding company, as : - www.shipito.com- www.borderlinx.cometc ...
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Post by deltadube on Jul 1, 2014 12:42:41 GMT -5
Emotiva Sales just informed me that XPR amplifiers are not available to international customers - Very disappointing to say the least. I have been a member of this forum for a good few years - but probably will not be so for much longer. Just thinking of all these years I was here, reading all the new threads almost every day and eagerly looking forward to a chance to upgrade - its been a waste I think. I need to upgrade from my current XPA-1s so most likely will be looking elsewhere. Oh well. Curious what loudspeakers you have that would make you think that you need to upgrade from a pair of XPA-1s to XPR amplifiers? I'm not trying to diminish your personal feelings, but depending upon your loudspeakers the audible difference between the two amps may be difficult to discern. If anything, and this is just me, as good (or great) as the XPR amplifiers are, I find the XPA amps, especially the XPA-1, to be the "better" sounding of the two lines. Have you considered the XPA-1 Gen 2s? wow Andrew is that like an official review? Bob
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Post by garbulky on Jul 1, 2014 13:12:01 GMT -5
jayz - I understand it's difficult if you had your heart set on the XPR-1's. But it is international shipping and that sort of gums up the works. It seems to me like you feel like this is some shocking betrayal but it really isn't. Emotiva is a company mainly catering to the local market and likely at a volume that's more mass market than other high end retailers with higher end prices. I don't think they were doing this to snub people but just facing the realities of an economic climate. If shipping was $500 with a high risk of damage, high duty and tax costs and return rates to account for - INCLUDING return shipping on international orders, that's going to reduce the customer pool for the heavier amps and also increase the cost for Emotiva to provide it there. It's not meant as a snub to you but a business decision at the time. I don't see another cost comparable amp that can do the power, capacitor, power supply specs, class A capablity and fully balanced nature etc of the XPR-1 at the same price. But I hope you find it or a satisfactory alternative. Power isn't necessarily all there's it for amplifiers so it is quite possible you may find a better sounding amp out there even if it doesn't have the power. I've heard the XPR-2 lineup. They are definitely fine amps and I too would like one. But if I already have one of Emo's higher powered models - XPA-2 or XPA-1 L and above, it's not going to make me want to run out and get one. Hope that helps. There are certain things that your XPA-1 is actually able to do (specs wise) better. They don't have a class H power supply. In the class H when one switches to the higher rails there is an (inaudible) bump in distortion. According to audioholics review at the 200 watt mark. The XPA-1 does not have it. Also the new XPA-1 gen 2 has 60 watts of class A power which does reduce or nearly eliminate a type of (like inaudible) distortion called crossover notch distortion. So Andrews reccomendation isn't completely off here. Having said that the XPR-1's do have I believe 30 watts of class A as well. What I would suggest is to actually buy yourself a true dedicated pre-amp to connect to your NAD. Like an XSP-1 or higher. I (and my friend B'zilla) found the XSP-1 makes a significant difference vs dac direct with Emotiva's larger amplifiers including the XPR-2. A more dynamic sound which I feel is audible. Also if you haven't explored room treatments please do so. www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.htmlThese will make more real world differences than spending thousands to upgrade an already good amplifier.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 1, 2014 17:43:38 GMT -5
I appears to me that you have a few issues that you would like input into resolving; The first one being.................This is not a new revelation, personally I've been aware of it for over a year. Your solution is the same as the rest of us International customers, use a re-shipper, no big deal. We have to do it all the time, there are a lot of US companies (and European ones) that don't even know where Australia is let ship here. Next.............. So why do I need XPR amps? Its because I would like better clarity, grace and nuance across the entire band - more detail overall really. I am a big fan of identifying fine textures of various instruments all the way from violin to percussion drums - we are talking here about very detailed (yet non-fatiguing) highs, improved transparency in the mid band (again, more mid-range detail) and tighter, better defined lows. This doesn't sound to me like you really need/want an XPR-1. What you are describing as your requirements are not particular Class H power supply power amps strengths. Personally (and hifi is very much personal) what I would be looking at is adding a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2's. Their ability to produce 60 watts in Class A is to my ears the best way to fullfil your needs for "fine textures", "detailed highs" and "transparency in the mid band". I would retain the XPA-1 Gen 1's for use to exclusively provide the "better defined lows" ie; full bi amp. If you find the "lows" not powerful enough, then you could upgrade the XPA-1 Gen 1's to XPR-1's. Your used XPA-1 Gen 1's will be an easy sell. As an alternative, if your listening volume levels are not extreme then you might try a pair of XPA-1L's for mids and highs. Their 35 watts of Class A would be plenty for most people when coupled with your existing XPA-1 Gen 1's providing the driving force for the lows. As an experimenter in sound my path would be, XPA-1L's with your existing XPA-1 Gen 1's. If I felt that I needed more Class A power than I could sell the XPA-1L's (also sought after on the used market) and try a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2's. Or if I felt the lows need some more punch then a pair of XPR-1's should resolve that issue. Obviously the above sounds strange to a US customer, but us Internationals don't have the advantage of the 30 day trial, so we have dig into the wallet to do our experimenting. Lastly.......................If it's the thread I recall (there have been quite a few asking the same question) my response was that the only difference that I could determine (and quite possibly hear) would be the 60 watts of Class A in the Gen 2's. That's the feedback that I got when I asked Emotiva the same question and I found it quite useful. The above is my thinking, about what I would do, for my ears, in my room with my speakers. Your ears, room and speakers might well be different. Cheers Gary
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Post by aud on Jul 1, 2014 17:54:17 GMT -5
Sorry it's becoming confusing, JayZ. Apparently you read the XPR-1 product page correctly. Here's is just one paragraph from that page.
In terms of sonic refinement, the XPR-1’s fully balanced Differential Reference™ design topology delivers pinpoint imaging and immersive detail; together with a relaxed sense of authority, and of course, absolute control. Only a carefully executed balanced design topology, backed by massive power reserves can convey this sense of realism and dynamics
I bought my two for the detail and relaxed sense of authority and they did not disappoint.
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Post by htinparadise on Jul 1, 2014 23:22:05 GMT -5
Hello Folks,
Gary Cook's thoughtful suggestion of combining old and new series Emo amplifiers does not take into account the fact that the original Emo XPA series of amplifiers (Gen 1 that you own) do not share the same high gain structure as the newer low gain Gen. 2 series; and as such, strictly will not function optimally (i.e. sonically) without the use of an additional electronic cross-over.
Most kindest regards,
HTinP
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 2, 2014 2:04:07 GMT -5
Hello Folks, Gary Cook's thoughtful suggestion of combining old and new series Emo amplifiers does not take into account the fact that the original Emo XPA series of amplifiers (Gen 1 that you own) do not share the same high gain structure as the newer low gain Gen. 2 series; and as such, strictly will not function optimally (i.e. sonically) without the use of an additional electronic cross-over. Most kindest regards, HTinP I did take it into account and I don't believe that the small difference in gain (3db) is going to be noticeable. If it did turn out to be, then the simple addition of a pair of high quality 3db attenuators would resolve it. Or a Control Freak. Cheers Gary
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JayZ
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Post by JayZ on Jul 2, 2014 3:20:55 GMT -5
JayZ, where are you from? I've used a separate re-shipping company for this to Sweden, not XPRs but similar weight and volume, and I'm sure there are companies too, but I used shopusa.com. At the time their shipping price was similar to EMOs, you get a virtual address in Virginia that EMO ships to, and they handle it from there to your door, and include paying tolls etc in the service, the only thing is that the cheaper version is by sea so it may take a while until you get them. They handle cars too so I think XPRs should be ok =). Hope this helps! Thanks Igor, I will certainly checkout shopusa.com. JayZ where are you living... as noted there are many international shipping options to many countries that will accept a USA based shipped item and then send it int'l for you. many use this option in Singapore and in fact even the local post office has a USA drop box option for this kind of thing. While some restrictions do apply, there are others I have used that will ship anything. We even did a mass order (group buy) that shipped $35K worth of gear in one go, we even had it all collected together from Franklin and shipped direct to Singapore saving a lot of costs for all they got gear and even XPR series amps too! These guys will even ship cars!!! I am based in the UK, thanks for your suggestions.
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JayZ
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Post by JayZ on Jul 2, 2014 3:53:51 GMT -5
Sorry it's becoming confusing, jayZ. Apparently you did read the XPR-1 product page correctly. Here's is just one paragraph from that page. In terms of sonic refinement, the XPR-1’s fully balanced Differential Reference™ design topology delivers pinpoint imaging and immersive detail; together with a relaxed sense of authority, and of course, absolute control. Only a carefully executed balanced design topology, backed by massive power reserves can convey this sense of realism and dynamicsI bought my two for the detail and relaxed sense of authority and they did not disappoint. I had a colleague bring in his Bryston 14B-SST2 to compare against my XPA-1s a while ago and I found the Bryston just that bit better in terms of what I am after. A dealer I know and whose taste in audio match mine has had the chance to audition the XPA-1s vs XPR-2s somewhere and he claims the XPR line is closer to the Bryston sonic signature. He actually thinks the XPRs might even be better overall even though they cost less than a mid-range Bryston. Now I don't want to start a war here with those statements because the only reason I mentioned Bryston is to explain that my reason to upgrade is not driven by a need to have the top-end model. I also find it hilarious when people compare amps in terms of power alone - that would be true if all amplifiers had the same transfer function from input to output - which is far from reality.
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Post by Kent on Sept 24, 2014 16:45:13 GMT -5
Hello,
I just recently found out the XPR amps are not available anymore to Canadian addresses. I do understand from a business perspective that it has to make sense financially which is the bottom line. However, I can't say I'm not disappointed though. If I could tell the future I would have bought three instead of two.
Hopefully Emotiva finds a solution to this international shipping problem. If not I suppose I will make an arrangement with friends in the U.S. Life for us audiophiles can be so tough:)
Happy Listening! Kent
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 24, 2014 17:51:37 GMT -5
I have to applaud andrew attitude, as i always enjoy when an employer of a company actually tries to persuade us NOT to buy a product (especially one as expensive as the XPR line). Usually, they are trying to convince us that cable X (that by chance they sell) will bring amazing improvements ... As such, i think you wont have a better and honest advice that the one already provided. If you really want a XPR, you could use a Parcel forwarding company, as : - www.shipito.com- www.borderlinx.cometc ... Andrew Robinson doesn't work any more for Emotiva since this September, perhaps this is why he can now suggest the Crown Amp? Not sure why I'm dipping my toes back into these waters but if power and power reserves are truly what you're after and you cannot get what you really want in a pair of XPR-1s. May I suggest you look at the Crown XLS line of amplifiers, specifically the XLS 2500 which you buy two, run them in mono, and feed each speaker up to 2400 Watts! (That's 2400 Watts into 4 Ohms, the 8 Ohm power rating is 1550 Watts.) That's a lot of juice on tap, not to mention the XLS 2500 amplifiers are compact, available most everywhere and should work great with your speakers given the brand's lineage stemming from the pro audio world. It's an option. Edit: OOOOoooopppppssss I didn't see that it was posted the 1 July 2014, Can it was a factor for his departure? Sorry folks, I'm late in this thread.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Sept 24, 2014 17:55:15 GMT -5
I wonder if a US resident can make the purchase then ship it international? I'm not sure how the customs rules are but it might be something someone can explore as a side gig
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 24, 2014 18:05:31 GMT -5
Hello, I just recently found out the XPR amps are not available anymore to Canadian addresses. I do understand from a business perspective that it has to make sense financially which is the bottom line. However, I can't say I'm not disappointed though. If I could tell the future I would have bought three instead of two. Hopefully Emotiva finds a solution to this international shipping problem. If not I suppose I will make an arrangement with friends in the U.S. Life for us audiophiles can be so tough:) Happy Listening! Kent Make it shipped in a deposit warehouse just over the border in US and pass it yourself and pay the taxes at the Canadian custom border at your return.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Sept 24, 2014 18:54:45 GMT -5
I wonder if a US resident can make the purchase then ship it international? I'm not sure how the customs rules are but it might be something someone can explore as a side gig Doing so as a favor is one thing but if one is thinking of making it a commercial enterprise then customs excise tax/income tax/shipping costs etc. may not be worth it.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Sept 24, 2014 21:02:29 GMT -5
I wonder if a US resident can make the purchase then ship it international? I'm not sure how the customs rules are but it might be something someone can explore as a side gig Doing so as a favor is one thing but if one is thinking of making it a commercial enterprise then customs excise tax/income tax/shipping costs etc. may not be worth it. I was thinking along those lines. Help out a fellow international Emo buddy!
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Oct 14, 2014 9:24:06 GMT -5
Hello Folks, Gary Cook's thoughtful suggestion of combining old and new series Emo amplifiers does not take into account the fact that the original Emo XPA series of amplifiers (Gen 1 that you own) do not share the same high gain structure as the newer low gain Gen. 2 series; and as such, strictly will not function optimally (i.e. sonically) without the use of an additional electronic cross-over. Most kindest regards, HTinP You are confusing gain with frequency. You only need to match the gain when using different amps. (no different than say those mixing pro and consumer amps) A crossover is only used when you are splitting frequency. (to feed a sub or actively bi-amping a speaker)
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Post by htinparadise on Oct 14, 2014 16:58:24 GMT -5
The Emotiva XPA series 1 amplifiers have a 32db gain. The newer Gen2 XPA series amps have a 29 db gain. Thus, combining the two different gain structured (first gen XPA combined with Gen2 XPA series) yields a gain difference of 3db, which is audible when bi-amping -either passive or active bi-amping.
Absolutely nothing at all to do with frequency; other than there will be an audible 3db volume miss match between the amplifiers.
These are the facts and I stand by my original post.
Kindest regards, HTinP
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 14, 2014 20:48:17 GMT -5
The Emotiva XPA series 1 amplifiers have a 32db gain. The newer Gen2 XPA series amps have a 29 db gain. Thus, combining the two different gain structured (first gen XPA combined with Gen2 XPA series) yields a gain difference of 3db, which is audible when bi-amping -either passive or active bi-amping. Absolutely nothing at all to do with frequency; other than there will be an audible 3db volume miss match between the amplifiers. These are the facts and I stand by my original post. Kindest regards, HTinP I think the difference here is that one is referring to bi amping vertically (one stereo amp per speaker) and the other bi amping horizontally (one channel of each stereo amp per speaker). Different gain amps bi amped vertically would not cause an issue, simply match the SPL's to allow for the different amp gains. Different gain amps bi amped horizontally could cause an issue, which is easily overcome by inserting an attenuator (3 db in the example) in the input to the higher gain amp to allow for the different gain. Cheers Gary
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Post by htinparadise on Oct 14, 2014 22:38:40 GMT -5
The Emotiva XPA series 1 amplifiers have a 32db gain. The newer Gen2 XPA series amps have a 29 db gain. Thus, combining the two different gain structured (first gen XPA combined with Gen2 XPA series) yields a gain difference of 3db, which is audible when bi-amping -either passive or active bi-amping. Absolutely nothing at all to do with frequency; other than there will be an audible 3db volume miss match between the amplifiers. These are the facts and I stand by my original post. Kindest regards, HTinP I think the difference here is that one is referring to bi amping vertically (one stereo amp per speaker) and the other bi amping horizontally (one channel of each stereo amp per speaker). Different gain amps bi amped vertically would not cause an issue, simply match the SPL's to allow for the different amp gains. Different gain amps bi amped horizontally could cause an issue, which is easily overcome by inserting an attenuator (3 db in the example) in the input to the higher gain amp to allow for the different gain. Cheers Gary So, strictly and only by your reasoning alone, then it would be audibly OK to have one channel 3db higher versus the other channel? Kindest regards, HTinP
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Oct 14, 2014 23:00:05 GMT -5
I think the difference here is that one is referring to bi amping vertically (one stereo amp per speaker) and the other bi amping horizontally (one channel of each stereo amp per speaker). Different gain amps bi amped vertically would not cause an issue, simply match the SPL's to allow for the different amp gains. Different gain amps bi amped horizontally could cause an issue, which is easily overcome by inserting an attenuator (3 db in the example) in the input to the higher gain amp to allow for the different gain. Cheers Gary So, strictly and only by your reasoning alone, then it would be audibly OK to have one channel 3db higher versus the other channel? Kindest regards, HTinP Of course not. just level match. but you don't need a crossover for that like you mentioned earlier.
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