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Post by audionoob52 on Jul 8, 2014 21:33:12 GMT -5
Hey guys I'm new here and really don't have much knowledge on amps. I have a 7.1 system. I run a Klipsch icon setup with the WF-34's, WC-24, WB-14's, and WS-24's. Also with a sun fire sub. I had a pioneer 1019 AH-k but just sold it knowing that I'm upgrading to a new receiver. I'm looking at the new pioneer elite SC 81/71 or SC 85. My question to you guys is, do i need an amp? Id like to get the most out of my speakers, like anyone does, but especially the WF-34's. Will an amp improve the quality of sound with my speakers if i buy one of those receivers i mentioned. If so, what amp do you recommend? I know that if i get the SC 81 or 71, ill only be able to use an amp on the two fronts. Therefor my options are the UPA 200 or XPA 2, if I'm correct. If i get the SC 85, i can amp all 7 speakers, so i could go with the UPA 700. What are you alls recommendations on the amps? OR Id also like to know if i should skip the receiver and get the UMC processor. P.S. Im not trying to spend a boat load of money and i only want to buy one amp… UNLESS some one can really convince me  Thanks guys |
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Post by deltadube on Jul 9, 2014 0:02:39 GMT -5
you can never have enough power !!!!
mono blocks big dog mono blocks
cheers
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Post by garbulky on Jul 9, 2014 1:18:25 GMT -5
I can answer your question. SKIP THE RECIEVER. When you buy a reciever you are ALWAYS paying for amplification. When the reciever needs to be replaced - and it will - you will be THROWING AWAY amplification. Go the pre-amp and power amp route. When you have to upgrade you won't be spending money replacing perfectly good amplifiers. Also most of the time (I believe the pioneers are an exception) the amps on an AVR are quite wimpy. Going the pre, and power amp route gets you SOLID amplification that you can use everytime there is an upgrade. No more guessing on how wimpy the reciever is. My reccomendation is a UMC-200 and a UPA-700. Bang. Done with. The UPA-700 will in real life be pushing more power than it's rated for towards your important front speakers. I think with only two channels drive it has about as much power as the UPA-200 does. If you want a little more power: Get a fusion 8100 and an XPA-2. If your choice is an XPA-200 and an XPA-2, the XPA-2 handily outperforms it. Don't get me wrong the XPA-200 is powerful (I have its predecessor - the old UPA-2 and love it.) But the XPA-2 is simply on another level. Very VERY powerful amp. Possibly overkill for you as you have very efficient speakers. But it can be your last amp you get. The XPA-2 sounds great with a regular reciever but hook up a dedicated pre-amp to it like the USP-1 or the XSP-1 and the improvement is even more noticeable. But if you aren't trying to go nuts, just get the UMC and UPA-700. You can also put a wanted to buy ad for a used XPA-5 gen 1. There are some GOOD deals on this bad boy. It is a very powerful amp that with just two channels driven puts out near the power of the XPA-2. You'll save even more if there is somebody near you selling local as the shipping can be a bit expensive. |
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Post by creimes on Jul 9, 2014 1:26:55 GMT -5
Not a boatload of money and a sweet combo is the UMC-200 and a UPA-700 as mentioned, easily enough power for your speakers.
Chad
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Post by saverio on Jul 9, 2014 8:47:09 GMT -5
There is an XPA-5 and XPA-2 for sale over at Audiogon and the asking price is $1,350.00 for both. I bet you could snap 'em up for $1,100.00 - $1,200.00 easy and that would be a steal.
There is also an XPR-2 up for sale at $1,200.00.
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Post by audiofile on Jul 9, 2014 13:58:06 GMT -5
I totally agree with Garbulky's comments. Go pre-amp/processor and separate amplifier(s).
The WF-34's are rated 125W @ 8 ohms (nominal). The SC-85 puts out maximum 135W @ 8 ohms with only 2 channels driven. Your front speakers, during a movie event or some decent decibel level music listening, will eventually overheat the Pioneer fairly quickly. Add in the rest of the speakers and the power drain will increase substantially. At some point, one or more speakers are at risk of being clipped and I'd say it would be the WF-34's who are at the highest risk.
Looking at the UPA-700 specifications, it's a bit shy on power for those WF-34's as well. What I'd do is find a good 2-channel amp for the two WF-34's (XPA-200), an amp for the WC-24 (XPA-100), an amp for the two WB-14's (UPA-200) and an amp for the WS-24's (UPA-200). That's 4 amps. If that component load is too much, get an XPA-5 & a UPA-200. Those two amps will drive ALL your speakers with plenty of power and not put them at risk.
Then pick a pre-amp/processor and you are set.
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Post by audionoob52 on Jul 9, 2014 19:33:48 GMT -5
What do you guys think about the xmc-1 with a xpa-2 driving the fronts and a xpa-5 driving the others?
Or is that just too much power for no reason?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 21:06:54 GMT -5
What do you guys think about the xmc-1 with a xpa-2 driving the fronts and a xpa-5 driving the others? Or is that just too much power for no reason? That would be a match made in heaven providing the xmc works as it's supposed to. I personally wouldn't buy another u series amplifier, I don't believe the build quality is there in that line of amps. They have more than sufficient power to drive most speakers but they are like midlevel avr's. The x series amps are built to a far higher level of quality.I don't feel you need to spend a whole bunch of money on "MONOBLOCKS".... the multichannel x series amps are fantastic for the money you'll be happy with them I almost guarantee it. Just the $0.02 of a real world "enthusiast". |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 9, 2014 21:16:36 GMT -5
What do you guys think about the xmc-1 with a xpa-2 driving the fronts and a xpa-5 driving the others? Or is that just too much power for no reason? I was under the impression you were on a budget  FWIW, my axiom m80's are rated at 400 watts per speaker. I run them off a UPA-2 which does something like 150 watts per channel. No big worries on them being too under powered. Here's the thing with Emotiva amps, you will get something the more you spend. However you have to be aware of what brings you the most improvements etc. For instance an XMC-1 + XPA-2 + XPA-5 comes to about $4000. I'd rather spend the extra money on speakers as that's where you would get the most improvements by far. And maybe some money on acoustic treatments - which sounds boring and tedious but they really do make a difference. Without speaker positioning, room treatments, and resolving speakers taken care of first, spending money on other stuff isn't going to help. Another thing to kjeep in mind with surround sound is that the surround channels take very very little power. So spending money on the front speakers and amplifiers are where the gains are made. For instance you do not need 200 watts for your surrounds. But that's okay, all that unused wattage will go to where it's needed You won't be dissapointed with an XPA-2, XPA-5, XMC-1 combo. AT ALL. Proviidng your speakers, speaker setup and room is taken care of, there should be an audible improvement over the previous system. BUT......not by a huge amount. I've heard the XPA-2 it's fantastic. But there is such a thing as diminishing returns and improvements that mean a lot to one person may mean next to nothing to another person. So it's hard to say. I'm a 2 channel guy. If it was me and I could afford it, with my current setup.....I would simply do two channels and go for XPA-1 L/ XPA-1 monoblocks, a DC-1 and an XSP-1. It really depends on what floats your boat |
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Post by audionoob52 on Jul 9, 2014 21:53:09 GMT -5
Do you guys think the upa 700 and umc 200 is plenty of power tho?
is the xmc really worth a $1500 more than the umc when it comes to my system?
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222 
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Post by novisnick on Jul 9, 2014 22:05:59 GMT -5
Hey fattykidd ,I fully respect your .02 cents! yes I agree with you that Emotiva's multi channel amps are great! No doubt in my mind,,,,,own one.
waisting money on MONOBLOCKS ? Maybe, but not if your going with the XMC-1 I think. Isn't it all channels balanced? a quad differential blah, blah, blah.would be called for if your after the best SQ
I just love the sound but that's me.
I've been comparing the XPA-1L to the XPA-2 and dime for dime it is a great value for sure and if your not going for a balanced system then I would recommend this amp on it's value and quality. Lots of bang for the buck.
There is a reason why they make chocolate and vanilla ,,,,,,,
Just my two cents from another " real " world enthusiast ,,,,,,,he,,,,,,,he,,,,,,,,,,he,,,,,,,,,
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Post by garbulky on Jul 9, 2014 22:23:55 GMT -5
Yes the UPA-700 is enough power. You will be surprised at Emotiva units. They are POWERFUL. If you are looking for amplifiers that you can keep for ever just buy a single XPA-5. Best value out there. Very sturdy etc. etc. Then if you still think it isn't enough check out an XPA-2 I'm not going to lie. YES there are increases in quality the more you spend. It depends on if those increases are is worth it to you. I've seen people spend lots of money on electronics. Then complain that it sounds no different than what they have. Then when they post a picture of their room, you can see their setup could use lots of improvement. I'm talking about speakers near the roof, badly positioned, crammed against side wall etc. So instead of improving their basic setup, they are on their way to spend on even more expensive electronics hoping to get an improvement. For what it's worth, your speakers will usually be crusing at maybe a watt of power most of the time (really!). During dynamic peaks it will increase to a significantly larger amount. But the truth is that most listening is done at a watt or so. So hope that helps. I think in general due to HDMi 2, the coming of 4k, the standards being revised and Dolby atmos being talked about, it's a bad time to go purchase a reciever or a pre-pro. The next generation is coming and it is going to make everything before it obsolete. But don't expect the next gen to happen for at least an year or more. So if you can't wait you can get what's out there. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 22:30:19 GMT -5
Do you guys think the upa 700 and umc 200 is plenty of power tho? is the xmc really worth a $1500 more than the umc when it comes to my system? Yes the upa-700 is plenty of power, I bought one and loved the thing but once I moved up the ladder to the higher end lines there was no going back. And really only you can tell if it's worth 1500 more for your system, are you an entry level guy or are you a flagship guy ? I also owned in the past the pioneer vsx-1019 replaced it with a pioneer elite vsx-32 which was replaced by emotiva and sherbourn separates from a purely sound stand point the separates are in a whole different league. I was still typing as the above post went up .... |
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Post by audionoob52 on Jul 9, 2014 22:37:29 GMT -5
Will the XMC not be atoms upgradeable in the future like some of the new receivers coming out?
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Post by audionoob52 on Jul 9, 2014 22:47:56 GMT -5
Or what if i did the UMC 200 with a UPA 200 for the fronts and a UPA 500 for the rest. UPA 200 would give a lil more power to the fronts, right?
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Post by garbulky on Jul 9, 2014 23:16:01 GMT -5
Or what if i did the UMC 200 with a UPA 200 for the fronts and a UPA 500 for the rest. UPA 200 would give a lil more power to the fronts, right? I would get the UPA-700 and see first. If it's not enough you can get a UPA-200 OR.....simply keep the UPA-700 for surround sound and get an XPA-3 for the front three speakers Or an XPA-2 for the front two and the UPA-700 for the center and surrounds. Yes you can mix and match the amps as they have the same gain (29 db)  |
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musicguru
Minor Hero
What do you think? Fusion 8100/ 2 XPA-1L vs UMC 200/ XPA 5 gen 2
Posts: 25
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Post by musicguru on Nov 6, 2014 13:15:18 GMT -5
What is the best route for HT UMC200/UPA700 combo or Fusion 8100 using pre-out with XPA200 for front L&R speakers and it's own out put to handle the surround speakers as I think front speakers always need more power than the surround, correct me may be I am wrong.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Nov 6, 2014 13:21:12 GMT -5
What is the best route for HT UMC200/UPA700 combo or Fusion 8100 using pre-out with XPA200 for front L&R speakers and it's own out put to handle the surround speakers as I think front speakers always need more power than the surround, correct me may be I am wrong. It only depends on how much power hungry your front speakers are. But yes, personally I prefer to have a little bit of extra power for stereo listening with the front speakers. |
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musicguru
Minor Hero
What do you think? Fusion 8100/ 2 XPA-1L vs UMC 200/ XPA 5 gen 2
Posts: 25
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Post by musicguru on Nov 6, 2014 13:38:29 GMT -5
My front speakers are rated at (125watts/8ohm). I just want to know how Fusion's sound compare to UMC200. If they are sound so identical close enough that you can't tell which one is better than another, then in my opion I will definitely go with Fusion/XPA200 for more power in front and less cost.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Nov 6, 2014 13:45:23 GMT -5
Also forget to mentioned that the UPA-500 or 700 will deliver a lot more power in 2ch listening. I think that your two options are good.
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