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Post by dally on Jul 23, 2014 21:37:11 GMT -5
Yes, you will get more power out of a UPA-700 driving only three channels, because all channels share the same power supply. If I had to guess, I would say around 125 watts per channel or so. Thanks for fast responses. To get more power out is also same for XPA models? Probably yes right? Well it is nice to know, maybe UPA model will be perfect for me or XPA3 it is where I'm now. It is work like this also for receivers? Let's say if my 3 mains will use XPA3 my receiver can put more watts per channel to rest of the speakers than if all speakers are using only receiver,right? Yes that's right. Your front three speakers put the biggest load on your reciever, so if you free up those channels it's much easier to just drive the surrounds and hights.
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Post by knucklehead on Jul 23, 2014 21:47:06 GMT -5
If you used all 7 channels of the UPA-700 you'll get 80wpc all channels driven. Thats more than the Denon is capable of regardless of what Denon says. Starting from 3 meters from your speakers to get 89db you are using:
4w = 89db 8w = 92db 16w = 95db 32w = 98db 64w = 101db (Now we're getting LOUD!)
You can see that adding lots of wattage doesn't gain you much.
It takes 128w to make 104db - 256w to make it to 107db.
There comes a point of diminishing returns. And adding a larger amp for headroom is (for the most part) folly if you aren't clipping your current amp. Most people can identify distortion once they hear it.
Since not all speakers are using 64w at the same time - if they did you'd probably jump from the sudden loudness. Remember that THX specs says that 85db is reference level AT the placement of the test microphone - I.E. - where you sit. Once you calibrate your Denon (run Audyssey) the volume is scaled to reference. At 85db you'll be at reference level at your seating position and your Denon is probably 'coasting' putting out no more than 4w for most scenes in a movie. Do you actually listen at 85db or is it less? If less you probably won't gain anything by getting a 7 channel amp. Try going past 85db - to 90db - you should notice the difference between 85 & 90db. Pretty loud huh? Imagine trying to play a movie at 95 or 100db.
If I were buying a UPA-700 I'd use all the channels. Let the Denon drive the easy height or width speakers. Those few extra watts probably won't be used anyway.
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Post by retro124 on Jul 23, 2014 22:01:14 GMT -5
If you used all 7 channels of the UPA-700 you'll get 80wpc all channels driven. Thats more than the Denon is capable of regardless of what Denon says. Starting from 3 meters from your speakers to get 89db you are using: 4w = 89db 8w = 92db 16w = 95db 32w = 98db 64w = 101db (Now we're getting LOUD!) You can see that adding lots of wattage doesn't gain you much. It takes 128w to make 104db - 256w to make it to 107db. There comes a point of diminishing returns. And adding a larger amp for headroom is (for the most part) folly if you aren't clipping your current amp. Most people can identify distortion once they hear it. Since not all speakers are using 64w at the same time - if they did you'd probably jump from the sudden loudness. Remember that THX specs says that 85db is reference level AT the placement of the test microphone - I.E. - where you sit. Once you calibrate your Denon (run Audyssey) the volume is scaled to reference. At 85db you'll be at reference level at your seating position and your Denon is probably 'coasting' putting out no more than 4w for most scenes in a movie. Do you actually listen at 85db or is it less? If less you probably won't gain anything by getting a 7 channel amp. Try going past 85db - to 90db - you should notice the difference between 85 & 90db. Pretty loud huh? Imagine trying to play a movie at 95 or 100db. If I were buying a UPA-700 I'd use all the channels. Let the Denon drive the easy height or width speakers. Those few extra watts probably won't be used anyway. Well I have volume set up in minus going to 0db. So I tried not to change it and 85db is pretty loud. I listen music sometimes in this point but moistly lower and some movies if they are not from BlueRay needs more volume a specially cable provider Comcast channels. So from what you saying there is no resin for me to get XPA amp, some UPA will be more then I need right?
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Post by knucklehead on Jul 23, 2014 22:14:49 GMT -5
As long as you have the Klipsch - yes.
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Post by retro124 on Jul 23, 2014 22:18:43 GMT -5
As long as you have the Klipsch - yes. where did you find what is Denon capable of regardless of what Denon says. I looked online but I did not find any info,.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 23, 2014 22:27:13 GMT -5
Emotiva amplifiers are always rated with all channels driven. While AVR's are generally rated only with 1 or 2 channels driven. For example an XPA-5 outputs 200 watts per channel when all 5 channels are driven, 275 watts when 2 channels are driven and 300 watts when one channel is driven. In comparison the X4000 is rated at 125 watts per channel with 2 channels driven.
My view would be to get an XPA-5 initially, it is a big step up from where you are right now and will fill the planned larger room easily. For 7.2 run the other 2 channels (RR and LR) from the X4000.
If you find that you need a bit more for stereo music listening, then you can easily add an XPA-2 or a pair of XPA-1's or XPA-1L's later on.
Or another XPA-5 to complete the 9.2 set up when that happens.
Not knocking an XPA-3, I owned one and it's a valid choice. But it has the same power as an XPA-5 and the extra cost for the 2 additional channels is great value for money.
Cheers Gary
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 23, 2014 22:54:11 GMT -5
I agree with Gary, I'd probably go for the XPA-5, use your AVR for whatever above 5 you do. I only have room for one amp (or about 5U) so that can also limit your choices.
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Post by knucklehead on Jul 23, 2014 22:55:13 GMT -5
As long as you have the Klipsch - yes. where did you find what is Denon capable of regardless of what Denon says. I looked online but I did not find any info,. Read the specs on the Denon. They spec it for 125wpc for the front L/R and for all of the other channels as well but do not state all channels driven. Power consumption is 670w total. 7x125=875. The AVR uses power for other processing as do the amps. Since the 670w total can't be exceeded the Denon can't drive all speakers at 125wpc all channels driven. The Emotiva UPA-700 can. Most AVRs have this fluff in their specs. Its what most of them do and as long as the FTC rules aren't broken nobody is going to jail. I'd venture a guess that the Denon can put out maybe 60wpc with all channels driven.
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Post by retro124 on Jul 24, 2014 8:45:48 GMT -5
Let my guys ask you this. I read some Emotiva amps buzzing with a low volume it is truth or it was just probably few bad ones what people complain.
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Post by creimes on Jul 24, 2014 9:39:37 GMT -5
My vote is for an XPA-5, I have a buddy who was running an onkyo receiver and a UPA-200 and UPA-500 with your same speakers and has since upgraded to an XPA-5 and prefers the XPA-5, he now also has a UMC-200 and will be getting an XMC-1 when his name is called, it's all subjective in the end for our rooms and our ears but IMO the XPA-5 is a no brainer and the best value in an amplifier that i know of, I have had both a Gen1 and Gen2 but I sold the Gen2 to get myself 3 XPA-1L's Chad
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
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Post by novisnick on Jul 24, 2014 9:47:14 GMT -5
Dollar for dollar and lbs for lbs, the XPA-5 should be the foundation of any/all home theaters, it's what I call the " Cornerstone " or as my sig states, " Every system should have one " Plenty of power for center and surrounds or even bi-amp the mains with it, no matter how big or small your system is at any time, the XPA-5 fits it.
Nick
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Post by dksosku on Jul 24, 2014 10:16:06 GMT -5
Let my guys ask you this. I read some Emotiva amps buzzing with a low volume it is truth or it was just probably few bad ones what people complain. This is not true. I'vent experienced with my amps and pretty sure no one will accept if the amps generate the buzz at any volume.
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Post by jackpine on Jul 24, 2014 10:44:59 GMT -5
The XPA-5 looks like a lot better value to me. $850 for 5 channels vs $710 for three when you spend $50 to join the eclub and take the 20% off.
edit: Oops I was only to the bottom of page one and hadn't seen page two of the thread when I posted this.
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Post by knucklehead on Jul 24, 2014 15:35:12 GMT -5
Let my guys ask you this. I read some Emotiva amps buzzing with a low volume it is truth or it was just probably few bad ones what people complain. With high power and high gain amps the XPA series amps tended to cause this in more efficient speakers. With the gen 2 XPA amps Emotiva have reduced the gain from 32 to 29db. Not that much but should help suppress that buzz with speakers such as yours. With UPA series amps you would probably not have problems with buzz. As for the question of which amps to buy - I use a UPA-2 for the front L/R and a UPA-500 for the center and surrounds. I can play them very loud without distortion or clipping and my speakers are 9db less efficient than yours. Like I said - if you don't play them at ear splitting levels the UPA amps will work just fine. Personally I'd get the UPA-200 for the fronts and the UPA-500 for the rest if I had your speakers and were looking for amps.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 24, 2014 16:08:38 GMT -5
I've never heard any "buzzing" from Emotiva amps, they are next to silent. They don't generate the "buzz" internally, it comes from external sources. From what's connected to them and/or what gets in through the external wiring. The "buzz" is usually eliminated by using decent quality interconnects, XLR's if absolutely necessary, and careful placement of power cords and speaker wires eg; never running parallel. If the source, processor, pre amp etc is the origin of the "buzz" then it will be there no matter what amp we choose.
Sometimes I think we get carried away with average loudness as being the sole reason for more watts. I don't see it that way, all of my AVR's have more than enough watts for the volume I listen at, what the power amp exposes is their slowness, tardiness lack of slam, punch, hit, impact. Instantaneous changes in volume, gunshots, explosions, crashes, drum strikes, piano keys, guitar strings all get to their tone and volume faster with amps that have more power in reserve. In comes from the amp having more control over the speaker drivers. When the higher volume is needed, say party time, then that control is still there.
Power amps last longer than pretty much all other audio components, except maybe speakers. A good power amp 10, 15, 20 years ago is still a good power amp today. That's why I would also choose one that maybe has more than I need right now, as long as it is within my budget.
Cheers Gary
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Post by retro124 on Jul 25, 2014 20:44:38 GMT -5
Thanks guys I'm definitely going to get one, I'm trying to find good deal on use one, if not I will jump on 20% Emotiva discount and choice from them. I still have almost a week to wait. Well i ca wait longer but 20% will be gone. Do you know if 20% discount is something what Emotiva do time to time or it is very rare?
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Post by creimes on Jul 25, 2014 21:37:51 GMT -5
Thanks guys I'm definitely going to get one, I'm trying to find good deal on use one, if not I will jump on 20% Emotiva discount and choice from them. I still have almost a week to wait. Well i ca wait longer but 20% will be gone. Do you know if 20% discount is something what Emotiva do time to time or it is very rare? They said last year there would be no more sales but they have this 20% XMC-1 launch special going on now so who knows, regardless if you have a eclub membership you will get 10% off but that does require a renewal every year, up to you to decide whether to wait or go for it, there are usually killer deals out there on used as well. Chad
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Post by retro124 on Jul 25, 2014 21:41:28 GMT -5
Thanks guys I'm definitely going to get one, I'm trying to find good deal on use one, if not I will jump on 20% Emotiva discount and choice from them. I still have almost a week to wait. Well i ca wait longer but 20% will be gone. Do you know if 20% discount is something what Emotiva do time to time or it is very rare? They said last year there would be no more sales but they have this 20% XMC-1 launch special going on now so who knows, regardless if you have a eclub membership you will get 10% off but that does require a renewal every year, up to you to decide whether to wait or go for it, there are usually killer deals out there on used as well. Chad I have a hard time to find a good deal on used one many people don't even want to send it, I received many responses with Local only, well I will look.
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Post by creimes on Jul 25, 2014 21:45:20 GMT -5
They said last year there would be no more sales but they have this 20% XMC-1 launch special going on now so who knows, regardless if you have a eclub membership you will get 10% off but that does require a renewal every year, up to you to decide whether to wait or go for it, there are usually killer deals out there on used as well. Chad I have a hard time to find a good deal on used one many people don't even want to send it, I received many responses with Local only, well I will look. Where are you located ?
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Post by retro124 on Jul 25, 2014 21:50:41 GMT -5
Charleston,SC When I'm looking for HT staff It looks to me like I'm the only one in whole Carolina's It was before with Klipsch speakers, all was very north like NY and a lot in west coast. To me looks West coast like heaven for preowned HT items
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