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Post by bluemeanies on Oct 28, 2014 9:41:30 GMT -5
I don't know where to begin, so I guess I will start with a list of some of my equipment and I will try to be as clear as possible. B&W804S speakers______will be upgrading to D series or possibly Salk speakers Bryston BDA 1 DAC Oppo 93______thinking about upgrading to the 105D Outlaw 990 processor/DVI/Component XSP1gen2_____thinking about purchasing
Ok that's it, you have a pretty good idea of where I am, now I will tell you where I want to be. Like every audiophile ( and I do not claim to be one/just someone who enjoys good sounding music that is exscrapulated from any kind of source) I want to come as close as possible to achieving the perfect sound (if there is such an animal). IMHO there are to many differentials to attain that level of nirvana.
As mentioned I am going to upgrade my 804S speakers. It was suggested to me that I should consider getting a preamp that can help achieve Hi-Rez playback also a better playback of my music overall. I only have a few Hi-Rez music. Most of my discs are standard cd's then SACD's with no vinly in the mix. Does the XSP1gen 2 have that capability? I have seen many of preamps that are at least double the price and some triple that are rated in the High Frequency range. I am not an engineer but the frequency rating of the XSP1gen2 looks very weak, to weak to achieve hi-rez playback. Again I am not an engineer. Next would it be recommended if I step up to the Oppo 105D along will the XSP1 that I will no longer need my Bryston DAC? Lastly, I have the Oppo 990 processor which is DVI/Component and my reason for keeping this processor is that I am also involved with a 6.2 system and in a few years my intentions will be to only have a 2channel system because of an eventual move that my wife and I intend to make and therefore I will be downsizing the amount of sq footage I will have. Thereby I will be eliminating my Home Theater. Having the 990 would I still be able to have both my 6.2 setup and use the XSP1gen2 for 2 channel?
So, in order of appearence. Can the XSP1gen2 be a reliable preamp capable of good hi-rez playback.
Should I eliminate my DAC if I decide to purchase the OPPO 105D and the XSP1gen2?
With present processor how would I be able to connect the XSP1gen2 being able to have both 2channel and 6.2 systems.
Thank and I apologize if I did not make myself clear. Also thanks to garbulky for the idea of the XSP1gen2
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 28, 2014 18:02:08 GMT -5
The XSP-1 doesn't have internal DAC. it's only a very very very good analog pre-amp, it will handle any analog signal fed from an external hi-rez DAC.
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 28, 2014 18:13:32 GMT -5
...Can the XSP1gen2 be a reliable preamp capable of good hi-rez playback. Yes. It won't do multi-channel, but for stereo (regardless of resolution), it will work fine. Should I eliminate my DAC if I decide to purchase the OPPO 105D and the XSP1gen2? Maybe, maybe not. You will need to listen to the Oppo's DAC and decide if you like that sound. I do. I run my 105 directly into my XSP-1, G2 and the sound is glorious. Is the Oppo "better" than your existing DAC? Clairvoyance costs extra... With present processor how would I be able to connect the XSP1gen2 being able to have both 2channel and 6.2 systems. The Oppo has 7.1 outputs, and the XSP-1 has a "Home Theater Bypass" mode where the preamp is bypassed for multi-channel sound. Works perfectly! Rather than considering wholesale changes in your system, may I suggest that you zero in on what you think the weakest link is in your current system. Upgrade (only) that, and see what improvements you hear. I actually think that most everything in your current system is pretty nice except for your speakers (I'm not a fan of B&W, so don't take this as any kind of gospel). I'd also encourage you, if you haven't already, to take a close look at your listening room. Mine improved more than any equipment upgrade I'd made when I used DYohn 's advice to add some room treatment panels. Best $300 I ever spent! Also, don't hesitate to move your speakers. SMALL amounts of toe in/out or positional change make HUGE differences in the soundstage and imaging. So for NO money, you may get a better sound just by dancing your current equipment around. OTOH, if you buy him a plane ticket (and pay him his usual small, phenomenal fee) garbulky himself will drop by & set up your room for you. I normally get him to work for pizza and beer! LOL Best of luck - Boomzilla
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Post by audiobill on Oct 28, 2014 19:14:38 GMT -5
Agree with Boom- study room acoustics (many articles on web), place speakers optimally (will take time and effort), furniture and necessary room treatment.
Be relentless and make this a priority.
Will return more than other steps given your great equipment now.
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FLcanuck
Emo VIPs
Kind of Blue ....EMO Blue!
Posts: 362
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Post by FLcanuck on Oct 28, 2014 19:16:21 GMT -5
Boom already mentioned it and I agree - if you haven't already, spend some of your budget on room treatments - even a few panels can make a big difference, as well as spending some time with placement of your speakers and sub(s). I would do this before making any equipment purchases, and then see where you are.
If you're looking to downsize in the near future, an Oppo 105D would be a great choice. You could eliminate several components from your rack and still have all you need. Since you don't need any analog inputs (turntable), you could use the 105D as your pre-amp - straight to your amps. So you could eliminate your Oppo 93 and your Bryston DAC. And as far as hi-rez music and digital files, the 105D can accommodate many options - via attached USB hard drive or flash drive, via network DLNA or SMB, via JRiver Media Center, etc. And of course pretty much any shiny disc you throw at it, it will play.
As far as speakers go, that's a very subjective choice. However, as far as equipment goes, speakers will usually provide the biggest change/improvement to the overall sound of your system.
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Post by redog on Oct 28, 2014 19:45:45 GMT -5
I love the oppo 105 as my pre/source. That is the best purchase I have made yet for my audio system.
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Post by vcautokid on Oct 28, 2014 20:46:49 GMT -5
As you can run the BDP-105 in many different configurations, just saying if it were me, less is more. Forget the DAC, the 105 is plenty good. Run balanced out to the XSP-1 differentially balanced inputs. Your 2 channel music is ready to be enjoyed. HDMI out to your processor preamplier,call it done. Oppo is my favorite source, and it can be a machine for all seasons, and reasons. Music, movies? You are set. The XSP-1 is very transparent, and open. A shame to put anything between your Oppo, and the XSP-1 G2. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by redog on Oct 28, 2014 20:54:35 GMT -5
If your willing to go all digital all you need is the oppo 105, an amplifier, and some speakers.
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Post by bitsandbytes on Oct 28, 2014 21:18:04 GMT -5
I've trialed the XSP-1 gen 1 from my Oppo bdp-95 through my B&W 804s speakers. The sound was awesome - powerful, detailed, with excellent bass crossover. With balanced interconnects, it took advantage of the XPA-1s capabilities of running fully balanced sound. Was the best 2.1 sound I've had. Would have kept it if I did not prefer my music run through 7.1.
Never heard the Bryston DAC-1 so not know how the sound would compare. These two units both have 30 day money back guarantees so you would only be out shipping if you trialed them.
Upgrading my main speakers to the B&W 804 diamonds made a bigger improvement, but then was far more costly.
Have fun listening to speakers and good luck with your decision.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 28, 2014 22:11:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't get rid of your BDA-1. Not until you can audition it with the speaker system of your choice. The BDA-1 uses dual DAC's and produces full class A output. The oppo 105 is honestly a very nice sounding DAC. But will it compare to a Bryston DAC? That is an unknown for me. I haven't heard the bryston. If you are looking to upgrade with multichannel sound - an XMC-1 + upgrade card would imo be a better option than an oppo 105 though it may cost a bit more. You get room correction and some pretty great sounding stuff.
But for now, I say try the XSP-1 for now and see if things change. Imprelement the changes (positioning speakers, room treatments that B'zilla reccomended). Then slowly upgrade the rest.
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Post by deltadube on Oct 28, 2014 22:15:19 GMT -5
yeah jump on the xsp 1 analog pre amp.. I got a jump to another level with the xsp1 in the sound quality of my system Frank!
did you know the xsp 1 was made for the xpa 1 mono blocks? just ask lonnie...
and its on sale now too.. lucky you!
as for the rest try and see...
go for the S8...
cheers
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Post by bluemeanies on Oct 29, 2014 6:44:07 GMT -5
...Can the XSP1gen2 be a reliable preamp capable of good hi-rez playback. Yes. It won't do multi-channel, but for stereo (regardless of resolution), it will work fine. Should I eliminate my DAC if I decide to purchase the OPPO 105D and the XSP1gen2? Maybe, maybe not. You will need to listen to the Oppo's DAC and decide if you like that sound. I do. I run my 105 directly into my XSP-1, G2 and the sound is glorious. Is the Oppo "better" than your existing DAC? Clairvoyance costs extra... With present processor how would I be able to connect the XSP1gen2 being able to have both 2channel and 6.2 systems. The Oppo has 7.1 outputs, and the XSP-1 has a "Home Theater Bypass" mode where the preamp is bypassed for multi-channel sound. Works perfectly! Rather than considering wholesale changes in your system, may I suggest that you zero in on what you think the weakest link is in your current system. Upgrade (only) that, and see what improvements you hear. I actually think that most everything in your current system is pretty nice except for your speakers (I'm not a fan of B&W, so don't take this as any kind of gospel). I'd also encourage you, if you haven't already, to take a close look at your listening room. Mine improved more than any equipment upgrade I'd made when I used DYohn 's advice to add some room treatment panels. Best $300 I ever spent! Also, don't hesitate to move your speakers. SMALL amounts of toe in/out or positional change make HUGE differences in the soundstage and imaging. So for NO money, you may get a better sound just by dancing your current equipment around. OTOH, if you buy him a plane ticket (and pay him his usual small, phenomenal fee) garbulky himself will drop by & set up your room for you. I normally get him to work for pizza and beer! LOL Best of luck - Boomzilla Thanks for all the responses. To start, my room is acoustically sound. I was well aware of what room acoustics could do to improve and stabilize good sound. I purchased my room treatment from Aurelex. Further I room the best that I can describe it is a room within a room. It was a basement with a garage and half bath that I was given permission from my MRS. To convert into a home theater. Neither the walls or ceiling touch the floor or pre-existing joistes that are part of the orginal room. Also the walls are 1.5 inches thick on the inside wall and on the backside there is soundboard. In side the walls there is what Aurelex describes as "mineral fiber" and "sheet look" which is used to absorb and block sound. After listening to many different speakers over the last couple of months I do feel while the 804S are a great speaker the need FOF ME to kick it up a notch. Honestly if I were not fortunate to have the cash flow to do this it would not happen. My days of making large bills for electronics and paying them off slowly even at interest free rates is over. I did understand that the XSP1gen2 did not have an internal DAC although that would be a great addition to the XSP1 since many Pre-amps incorporate DACS. No matter to me I just want to make sure that the XSP1gen2 can handle hi-Rez and is a reliable worthy piece of equipment. A sales person that I was talking to recommended a sim-audio Neo Moon 350P preamp w/o DAC at a big jump in price from the Emotiva $888.00 to $3650. That's a big chunk of change that I'd rather invest into speakers even though I know at this point a preamp is important. Never thought the revel acne of a preamp would be so important. The responses from Boom and AudioBill indicate that the XSP1gen2 is very capable and reliable. As well as from other people on the forum. I am stubborn that is why I had to ask. I felt better asking myself instead of reading about it from other members. The thought of eliminating the Bryston is that I did not what to waste a good piece of equipment. Right now I have two external DACS. The Bryston BDA1 and the Chordette. The Chordette I use to listen to music through bluetooth with iTunes Match. My collections, Pandora, iHeart Radio and You Tube. The Bryston is connected to the OPPO 93 and a Sony 777 multi disc CD player where I have stored a lot of my collection. It is debatable whether I will keep the Bryston solely for the purpose of enhancing my cd's that are stored in the Sony since the 105D has a more than reliable DAC. Is the Bryston worth keeping is in the ears of the listener. I think BOOM gave two thumbs up with the Oppo 105 and the XSP1 and that is good enough for me. FLcanuck had a good idea also using the OPPO105 as a DAC. My music consists mostly of standard cd's, then streaming and lastly SACD/hi-Rez. The Sony I will admit is mostly for storage however this unit has impressive sound and performs flawlessly. I must get more organized since in some cases what I have in storage in the Sony I can stream from my computer and iPad thru iTunes Match. I sometimes like to compare my music coming from a physical media as opposed to streaming and I have to admit my hearing is not that adequate to make that call as to what sounds best. My thoughts at this point are to consider selling my Sony, Oppo 93 and maybe the Bryston picking up the Oppo 105D, and the XSP1gen2. The speakers are a given...I intend to step up my 804S.
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Post by bluemeanies on Oct 29, 2014 6:49:17 GMT -5
I've trialed the XSP-1 gen 1 from my Oppo bdp-95 through my B&W 804s speakers. The sound was awesome - powerful, detailed, with excellent bass crossover. With balanced interconnects, it took advantage of the XPA-1s capabilities of running fully balanced sound. Was the best 2.1 sound I've had. Would have kept it if I did not prefer my music run through 7.1. Never heard the Bryston DAC-1 so not know how the sound would compare. These two units both have 30 day money back guarantees so you would only be out shipping if you trialed them. Upgrading my main speakers to the B&W 804 diamonds made a bigger improvement, but then was far more costly. Have fun listening to speakers and good luck with your decision. The 804D or the 803D is what I am considering. I am trying to wait until next year and go to at least two audio shows where I hope the SALK speaker is available for a listen. Each speaker is handmade. Thanks for the advice.
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Post by bluemeanies on Oct 29, 2014 6:54:20 GMT -5
yeah jump on the xsp 1 analog pre amp.. I got a jump to another level with the xsp1 in the sound quality of my system Frank! did you know the xsp 1 was made for the xpa 1 mono blocks? just ask lonnie... and its on sale now too.. lucky you! as for the rest try and see... go for the S8... cheers Yes I did see that the XSP1GEN2 is on sale. No I did not know that the XSP1GEN2 was made exclusively for the XPA1. My purchasing power right now is weak. I am expecting some funds to come to me in the next few months and I do not want to make a wrong move here by jumping the gun. I have to admit my mouth is watering over the XSP1GEN2 from what I have been reading. Thanks
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Post by moko on Oct 29, 2014 8:25:06 GMT -5
although i agree that speakers made the biggest improvements, but if you want to upgrade your electronics you have to compare them side by side with the same speakers, in your home for at least a couple of days, with music you are familiar of, and able to return it if you don't like it.
try to compare bryston dac with oppo 105D and let see which one you like. oppo has 30 days trial period. i think it's worth to try.
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Post by Axis on Oct 29, 2014 9:08:42 GMT -5
bluemeanies, what Salk speakers are you considering? Maybe I missed it but I am considering Salk's as well. I would spend your big bucks on speakers. I am yet to be convinced that the extended frequency range of Hi-Res is valid, but don't want to argue about it with anybody. My sony speakers with there cobalt tweeter are supposed to go up to 70k but I am not convinced it makes any difference. The low end seems to me the thing shoot for.
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Post by deltadube on Oct 29, 2014 11:12:43 GMT -5
yeah jump on the xsp 1 analog pre amp.. I got a jump to another level with the xsp1 in the sound quality of my system Frank! did you know the xsp 1 was made for the xpa 1 mono blocks? just ask lonnie... and its on sale now too.. lucky you! as for the rest try and see... go for the S8... cheers Yes I did see that the XSP1GEN2 is on sale. No I did not know that the XSP1GEN2 was made exclusively for the XPA1. My purchasing power right now is weak. I am expecting some funds to come to me in the next few months and I do not want to make a wrong move here by jumping the gun. I have to admit my mouth is watering over the XSP1GEN2 from what I have been reading. Thanks well I think the xsp 1 gen 1 was made to mate with the xpa 1 gen 1 eh.. cant say for gen2s. lol but I bet a good fit eh. lol I was looking at s8 used... except they sold too fast..
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Post by garbulky on Oct 29, 2014 11:21:10 GMT -5
The bryston may surprise you. There is nothing wrong with the oppo 105. It sounds great! But...it's an all in one unit with a blu ray drive, video processing, multichannel output all for a little over 1k. You are paying for all the other stuff. It may end up being a lateral move imo. Or maybe...a downgrade. Who knows!
Though price isn't an absolute indicator of quality....the bryston is a dedicated dual class A stereo DAC priced at $2000. I haven't heard the Bryston so I reccomend not quickly selling it off before comparing. Especially if you can do so with even better speakers. With the XSP-1, you are able to attach multiple inputs including the bryston and the Oppo so that you can compare the two.
Plus with the XSP-1 you can finally go full balanced to your XPA-1's with the bryston (reducing distortion). The oppo 105 is not fully balanced though it has XLR outputs. That's why I reccomend listening first. Maybe simply purchase the XSP-1 first without all the other stuff and try it out. Then see if you need to upgrade the other gear. You may not need to. The BDP 103 is fantastic in blu ray picture quality. And if the bryston is upto the task, then I think most of your bases are covered. And if you still want multichannel sound quality, the XMC-1 is my frist choice over it.
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Post by bluemeanies on Oct 29, 2014 22:13:28 GMT -5
bluemeanies, what Salk speakers are you considering? Maybe I missed it but I am considering Salk's as well. I would spend your big bucks on speakers. I am yet to be convinced that the extended frequency range of Hi-Res is valid, but don't want to argue about it with anybody. My sony speakers with there cobalt tweeter are supposed to go up to 70k but I am not convinced it makes any difference. The low end seems to me the thing shoot for. Hey Axis I was looking at the Veracity HT3. An excellent well made speaker. That said I have never listened to it. There are no stores in the area that sell this speaker nor are there any SALK distributors for there speakers. The company is located in the Pontiac Michigan area. Not exactly around the corner for me personally. However I am tempted to fly out there if they would refund me my air fair if I purchased a pair of their speakers. I doubt that will happen. The second option is to wait for an audio show next year that will have the SALK speaker on display. The third option is to forget about the Salk and look else ware. Focal, B&W. Those are speakers I would consider buying. I am into B&W. My choice, a lot of people do not like the B&W and feel it is over priced but the B&W in resale is at the higher end with the most give back in dollars compared to most other speakers. Today I was at my local audio store where I have been doing business for the last 15-20 years. I was speaking to a person that I have known for over ten years and he suggested a preamp to go along with a new set of speakers considering the processor I have for 2channel playback would not do my Focal/B&W/SALK speakers justice. The preamp was $10,000. Crazy...maybe. To me money is relative. If you have it spend it. In my case I do NOT. have it, so the $10,000 preamp is out of the question. He regards the XPA1'gen2 a thin amplifier that does not react fast enough. A decent amplifier. That it. I told him I am very satisfied with Emotiva and in no way can consider getting new amps. He accepted that and said we will work with what we have and wants me to bring into the store both XPA1's and I will get to listen to the Focal and B&W's of my choice to compare and decide what speaker will work with my XPA's. I have to make an appointment. I am taking my time. I DO wish the audio shows were closer to happening than not. Have you heard the Salk? Do know anything about where to listen to them on the east coast? thanks
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Post by smfins on Oct 29, 2014 22:31:24 GMT -5
...Can the XSP1gen2 be a reliable preamp capable of good hi-rez playback. Yes. It won't do multi-channel, but for stereo (regardless of resolution), it will work fine. Should I eliminate my DAC if I decide to purchase the OPPO 105D and the XSP1gen2? Maybe, maybe not. You will need to listen to the Oppo's DAC and decide if you like that sound. I do. I run my 105 directly into my XSP-1, G2 and the sound is glorious. Is the Oppo "better" than your existing DAC? Clairvoyance costs extra... With present processor how would I be able to connect the XSP1gen2 being able to have both 2channel and 6.2 systems. The Oppo has 7.1 outputs, and the XSP-1 has a "Home Theater Bypass" mode where the preamp is bypassed for multi-channel sound. Works perfectly! Rather than considering wholesale changes in your system, may I suggest that you zero in on what you think the weakest link is in your current system. Upgrade (only) that, and see what improvements you hear. I actually think that most everything in your current system is pretty nice except for your speakers (I'm not a fan of B&W, so don't take this as any kind of gospel). I'd also encourage you, if you haven't already, to take a close look at your listening room. Mine improved more than any equipment upgrade I'd made when I used DYohn 's advice to add some room treatment panels. Best $300 I ever spent! Also, don't hesitate to move your speakers. SMALL amounts of toe in/out or positional change make HUGE differences in the soundstage and imaging. So for NO money, you may get a better sound just by dancing your current equipment around. OTOH, if you buy him a plane ticket (and pay him his usual small, phenomenal fee) garbulky himself will drop by & set up your room for you. I normally get him to work for pizza and beer! LOL Boom, I have a question regarding acoustic panels and first reflection points. When towing in the speakers does this effect where the location of the panels go? I know the laser pointer trick for positioning the panels, but I'm wondering if towing the speaker in changes the placement position at all. I can't seem to find the answer to this online. thanks! Best of luck - Boomzilla
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