KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 29, 2016 8:58:11 GMT -5
Dirac Live always treats the speakers as if they were full range (it corrects them over the range of frequencies over which it considers them able to operate). Dirac does NOT set the crossover point for you, and it ignores the crossover point you have set (it doesn't stop testing at the crossover point you have set). Therefore, if doesn't matter if you set the crossover point before running Dirac, and you may feel free to change it afterwards (or switch between Large and Small). Dirac does, however, set the distance (delay is part of the Dirac calibration - which supersedes the distance setting). However, you ABSOLUTELY must make sure that none of the speakers you actually have are set to NONE when you run Dirac (speakers set to NONE will NOT be calibrated at all). Also, I know we're told to setup speakers before running Dirac, does this include setting the xover point? ...I would have thought Dirac would determine the ideal xover. I like to use a balanced MiniDSP with the 2-way advanced plugin and REW to time align my dual ULS-15 MK2 subs' and adjust the combined room response. I then run Dirac as though I have a single subwoofer. Thanks geebo, are you running firmware v3.1 and Dirac full these days? ...If so, you still perfer outboard processing? cheers
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Post by orangeLollies on Aug 29, 2016 19:38:29 GMT -5
Thanks Keith, that's great news... I had in fact verified this last night by running two Dirac sessions with xover set differently before starting each one. Then ran some REW measurements across the two... both measured identically :-) Dirac Live always treats the speakers as if they were full range (it corrects them over the range of frequencies over which it considers them able to operate). Dirac does NOT set the crossover point for you, and it ignores the crossover point you have set (it doesn't stop testing at the crossover point you have set). Therefore, if doesn't matter if you set the crossover point before running Dirac, and you may feel free to change it afterwards (or switch between Large and Small). Dirac does, however, set the distance (delay is part of the Dirac calibration - which supersedes the distance setting). However, you ABSOLUTELY must make sure that none of the speakers you actually have are set to NONE when you run Dirac (speakers set to NONE will NOT be calibrated at all). Also, I know we're told to setup speakers before running Dirac, does this include setting the xover point? ...I would have thought Dirac would determine the ideal xover. cheers
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Post by orangeLollies on Aug 30, 2016 16:02:18 GMT -5
Okay - Another wee question I haven't managed to find a detailed answer on: Grouping vs not-grouping channels in Dirac, what exactly are we changing here? In the dual sub scenario, does this effects time/phase alignment in the listening area, where non-grouped subs are optimised as individual sources and grouped subs will be optimised together as a single source? Or is the difference only in the frequency domain where the group just targets the same curve?
Hope that^ made some sense...
Thanks
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Post by igorzep on Sept 3, 2016 7:41:45 GMT -5
Or is the difference only in the frequency domain where the group just targets the same curve? Group let you just target the same curve for several speakers (subs). They are still equalized separately one by one.
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bibby
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Post by bibby on Sept 14, 2016 23:50:55 GMT -5
just got 2 new subwoofers with built-in amplifiers what setting should I put the LF adjust cut/boost knob at if i'm to use dirac with mini-dsp ? i currently have it at 12 o'clock gain at 12 o'clock delay at 0ms crossover maxed t 120hz out
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 15, 2016 6:56:23 GMT -5
just got 2 new subwoofers with built-in amplifiers what setting should I put the LF adjust cut/boost knob at if i'm to use dirac with mini-dsp ? i currently have it at 12 o'clock gain at 12 o'clock delay at 0ms crossover maxed t 120hz out What exactly does that control do?
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Post by ansat on Oct 4, 2016 16:35:48 GMT -5
just got 2 new subwoofers with built-in amplifiers what setting should I put the LF adjust cut/boost knob at if i'm to use dirac with mini-dsp ? i currently have it at 12 o'clock gain at 12 o'clock delay at 0ms crossover maxed t 120hz out What exactly does that control do? Lf adjust seems to be room dependant. Bigger the room, higher you need to adjust the lf. Tony
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Post by theswede on Dec 2, 2017 5:49:39 GMT -5
A week into Emotiva XMC-1 and Dirac live full version and it's impossible to get my 2 massive subs working well with Dirac. The subs location are fixed so can't play with location etc. They sound really good without any processing and I can get them to work well with the other speakers setting the distances etc manually. With Dirac the bass is almost gone however the drivers move like crazy, more than when I set them up manually but timing is way off and they seem to cancel each other out.
Before the XMC-1 I had a big Onkyo receiver with Audyssey and also had problems with the subs not aligning well. The workaround was to run Audyssey without the subwoofers and add them once Audyssey had configured the other speakers, adjusting level and distance manually which worked very well.
Yesterday I gave up on getting Dirac to help with the subs and did the same on the XMC-1, setting the XMC-1 to 5.0 (excluding the 2 subs), running Dirac, setting the target response, updating the XMC and then adding the woofers in the Dirac preset which gave me the bass back with Dirac still running on the other speakers.
However timing is not perfect because I can't adjust distances for the subs.
Sorry if this have been covered before but have anyone on here suggested adding the feature to add distance to the sub settings in the Dirac preset been discussed with the fine people at Emotiva and if so what was the response?
If not, would you guys think this could be a good way to help with the bass/sub issues and worth proposing to Emotiva?
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gistad
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by gistad on Dec 2, 2017 8:14:58 GMT -5
A week into Emotiva XMC-1 and Dirac live full version and it's impossible to get my 2 massive subs working well with Dirac. The subs location are fixed so can't play with location etc. They sound really good without any processing and I can get them to work well with the other speakers setting the distances etc manually. With Dirac the bass is almost gone however the drivers move like crazy, more than when I set them up manually but timing is way off and they seem to cancel each other out. Before the XMC-1 I had a big Onkyo receiver with Audyssey and also had problems with the subs not aligning well. The workaround was to run Audyssey without the subwoofers and add them once Audyssey had configured the other speakers, adjusting level and distance manually which worked very well. Yesterday I gave up on getting Dirac to help with the subs and did the same on the XMC-1, setting the XMC-1 to 5.0 (excluding the 2 subs), running Dirac, setting the target response, updating the XMC and then adding the woofers in the Dirac preset which gave me the bass back with Dirac still running on the other speakers. However timing is not perfect because I can't adjust distances for the subs. Sorry if this have been covered before but have anyone on here suggested adding the feature to add distance to the sub settings in the Dirac preset been discussed with the fine people at Emotiva and if so what was the response? If not, would you guys think this could be a good way to help with the bass/sub issues and worth proposing to Emotiva? Hej! Best solution is to time align your subwoofer with minidsp before running Dirac. Use only one sub output in mono from Xmc-1 to Minidsp. This is the only way I know of, that works properly. Mvh Johan
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Post by ansat on Dec 2, 2017 8:50:39 GMT -5
A week into Emotiva XMC-1 and Dirac live full version and it's impossible to get my 2 massive subs working well with Dirac. The subs location are fixed so can't play with location etc. They sound really good without any processing and I can get them to work well with the other speakers setting the distances etc manually. With Dirac the bass is almost gone however the drivers move like crazy, more than when I set them up manually but timing is way off and they seem to cancel each other out. Before the XMC-1 I had a big Onkyo receiver with Audyssey and also had problems with the subs not aligning well. The workaround was to run Audyssey without the subwoofers and add them once Audyssey had configured the other speakers, adjusting level and distance manually which worked very well. Yesterday I gave up on getting Dirac to help with the subs and did the same on the XMC-1, setting the XMC-1 to 5.0 (excluding the 2 subs), running Dirac, setting the target response, updating the XMC and then adding the woofers in the Dirac preset which gave me the bass back with Dirac still running on the other speakers. However timing is not perfect because I can't adjust distances for the subs. Sorry if this have been covered before but have anyone on here suggested adding the feature to add distance to the sub settings in the Dirac preset been discussed with the fine people at Emotiva and if so what was the response? If not, would you guys think this could be a good way to help with the bass/sub issues and worth proposing to Emotiva? Hej! Best solution is to time align your subwoofer with minidsp before running Dirac. Use only one sub output in mono from Xmc-1 to Minidsp. This is the only way I know of, that works properly. Mvh Johan This was my final solution. This has been asked to Emotiva previously but it would not hurt to ask again. (I think it was not possible due to how dirac was implemented. Other solutions would be adjusting phase if you have the option, split the sub and run as mono, or if passive, getting an amp with dsp. But long term, minidsp does the best. Tony
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Post by theswede on Dec 2, 2017 9:57:06 GMT -5
Reading through some of the threads it seems people want to manipulate the sub settings after running dirac on them which would be great but I can understand that would potentially be an issue.
What I am suggesting is to exclude the subs from the dirac process and add them manually after Dirac is done with the other speakers. This is already possible but missing the distance/phase adjustment.
It's a simple fix that is already out there and is good enough and would go along way until Dirac can cope with "difficult" subs and/or rooms.
Anyone have a feel for how common a problem this is amongst XMC-1 owners?
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Post by foggy1956 on Dec 2, 2017 11:12:21 GMT -5
Reading through some of the threads it seems people want to manipulate the sub settings after running dirac on them which would be great but I can understand that would potentially be an issue. What I am suggesting is to exclude the subs from the dirac process and add them manually after Dirac is done with the other speakers. This is already possible but missing the distance/phase adjustment. It's a simple fix that is already out there and is good enough and would go along way until Dirac can cope with "difficult" subs and/or rooms. Anyone have a feel for how common a problem this is amongst XMC-1 owners? It is common enough that Ansat recommends getting a mini-dsp, I believe it is wise to follow his advice!
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 2, 2017 11:23:05 GMT -5
Reading through some of the threads it seems people want to manipulate the sub settings after running dirac on them which would be great but I can understand that would potentially be an issue. What I am suggesting is to exclude the subs from the dirac process and add them manually after Dirac is done with the other speakers. This is already possible but missing the distance/phase adjustment. It's a simple fix that is already out there and is good enough and would go along way until Dirac can cope with "difficult" subs and/or rooms. Anyone have a feel for how common a problem this is amongst XMC-1 owners? Actually, I use the MiniDSP before running Dirac to get the response in the ballpark and time delays set first. Changing delays after running Dirac can affect the response at the listening position.
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Post by kybourbon on Dec 2, 2017 11:40:36 GMT -5
Ugh. I just found this thread. Not too happy that the $2500 preamp I just bought can't handle 2 subs.
Looks like I have to get buy an additional $105 dollar DSP to make it work.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 2, 2017 12:13:33 GMT -5
Ugh. I just found this thread. Not too happy that the $2500 preamp I just bought can't handle 2 subs. Looks like I have to get buy an additional $105 dollar DSP to make it work. First try Dirac setup as dual mono or stereo subs. You may be perfectly satisfied with the results. Dirac will set distances separately if configured that way. But when you have a difficult room or more than two subs a MiniDSP may improve things.
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Post by enricoclaudio on Dec 2, 2017 13:00:18 GMT -5
I know a lot of folks running multiple subwoofers without miniDSP with their XMC-1 and they like the results. It's something you have to try. I'm running my pair of F12SEs with a miniDSP 2x4 HD just because I have it already running with my previous receiver (Marantz SR7008) so when I got the XMC-1, it was just plug and play. I'm showing my two subwoofers as one to Dirac and the results are amazing. I'm pretty sure I can get satisfactory results if I run my subwoofers directly from the XMC-1 but I'm too lazy to start over again.
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Post by theswede on Dec 2, 2017 16:51:12 GMT -5
Come on guys, we are getting a really nice preamp that apparently can't handle multiple/complicated subs or a difficult room using Dirac and you think getting another piece of equipment @100k messing up an otherwise nice and clean signal path is the way to go when a fix is simple and available on other/older and for the most part less expensive equipment?
I might be new to this forum but I am in no way new to this stuff and I am telling you this is not ok and all of you who have an issue with this should stand up for yourselves and put pressure on Emotiva.
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Post by enricoclaudio on Dec 2, 2017 18:58:06 GMT -5
Come on guys, we are getting a really nice preamp that apparently can't handle multiple/complicated subs or a difficult room using Dirac and you think getting another piece of equipment @100k messing up an otherwise nice and clean signal path is the way to go when a fix is simple and available on other/older and for the most part less expensive equipment? I might be new to this forum but I am in no way new to this stuff and I am telling you this is not ok and all of you who have an issue with this should stand up for yourselves and put pressure on Emotiva. This is NOT an Emotiva problem, it's the way Dirac handles subwoofers because there is no bass management in Dirac software. miniDSP faces the same issue with Dirac and the way they solved it was offering a bass management plugging to handle it (DDRC-88BM). NAD 758 V3 equipped with Dirac offer only one subwoofer out to not deal with this issue. Like we already said, most XMC-1 owners have no problems running multiple subwoofers without a miniDSP 2x4.
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Post by theswede on Dec 3, 2017 4:48:36 GMT -5
Doing some online reading and specifically the Dirac user manual for the computer version and guess what's in there...a very nice and usable section to adjust both delays and levels for individual channels. Page 25 section 4.4.6 in the dirac manual.
The problem is 100% with Emotiva since some of us can't use the unit as intended and an acceptable work around is both possible and avalible on other units. A solution is also apperently already availible in the Dirac software so to me it just seems like this has not been properly thought through.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 3, 2017 9:59:58 GMT -5
Doing some online reading and specifically the Dirac user manual for the computer version and guess what's in there...a very nice and usable section to adjust both delays and levels for individual channels. Page 25 section 4.4.6 in the dirac manual. The problem is 100% with Emotiva since some of us can't use the unit as intended and an acceptable work around is both possible and avalible on other units. A solution is also apperently already availible in the Dirac software so to me it just seems like this has not been properly thought through. Emotiva only has what Dirac will allow with the licensing. Dirac provides the software and capabilities and Emotiva cannot change it. What you're looking at is the standalone software version that requires a computer to play music through and costs close to $800. The Dirac version licensed by MiniDSP doesn't have those options you refer to in the Dirac manual, either. That's because Dirac doesn't include it in the hardware versions that Emotiva and MiniDSP use. And Dirac does indeed set delays for up to two subwoofers in the XMC which is, after all, a 7.2 processor.
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