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Post by fbczar on Nov 24, 2014 13:39:51 GMT -5
I noticed the pictures on the XMC-1 Web Page and the narrative were in conflict with each other. It has now been revised. The XMC-1 uses much better parts than advertised. Here is my exchange with Emotiva. This is great news. NOV 24, 2014 | 11:38AM CST Damon Steele replied: Hi, Sorry, the pictures are correct. It uses the DSD 1796 DAC's and Cirrus Logic CS3318 V.C. chips. I put in a request to have this changed. Thanks, Damon Steele Product Specialist Emotiva Audio Corporation 615.790.6754 www.emotiva.com www.emotivapro.com PRIVACY NOTICE: This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. [v.E.1] NOV 21, 2014 | 07:34AM CST Original message wrote: On your web site you state the XMC-1 uses DSD1793 DACs, and Cirrus Logic CS3310 volume control chips. The photographs on your web site show the XMC-1 uses DSD1796 DACs and Cirrus Logic CS3318 volume control chips. Which is it? Thanks,
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Post by Hair Nick on Nov 24, 2014 14:45:10 GMT -5
It has now been updated.
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Post by Jim on Nov 24, 2014 15:12:34 GMT -5
Interesting comparing the DSD 1796 to the 1793: DSD 1796DSD 1793Nearly identical chips but the 1796 has 10db higher dynamic range.
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Post by flamingeye on Nov 24, 2014 15:42:40 GMT -5
a motto us owner's say every day about our Emotive gear
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Post by 2muchht on Nov 24, 2014 18:44:06 GMT -5
Did anyone who spoke to Emotiva about this ask what the DACs are for the second zone? Also, since it says the PCM 1796 are in the "Main Zone", has that been clarified to make sure that they are used on ALL "main" channels, or not just for the front L/C/R only?
Thanks
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Post by fbczar on Nov 24, 2014 18:56:34 GMT -5
Did anyone who spoke to Emotiva about this ask what the DACs are for the second zone? Also, since it says the PCM 1796 are in the "Main Zone", has that been clarified to make sure that they are used on ALL "main" channels, or not just for the front L/C/R only? Thanks Here is the answer to your question. Please note this was before we knew the 1796 DAC was being used. Subject: XMC-1 DAC Question NOV 19, 2014 | 03:08PM CST Keith Levkoff replied: The same DACs are used for all channels in the main zone. (It's a stereo DAC, so we use one for each two channels....) Keith Levkoff Technical Guru NOV 15, 2014 | 12:12PM CST Original message Your site says the XMC-1 use DSD1793 "main zone" DACs. Are the DSD1793 used on all the channels in the 7.2 system or just the L&R front and Center channel? Thanks,
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Post by stephen on Nov 24, 2014 20:32:07 GMT -5
Any thoughts on ADC quality? DAC far more important for most I assume, but if you had an analog source and wanted to use the DSP/crossover/room correction capabilities of the XMC-1 in the signal path...
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Post by nickwin on Nov 25, 2014 13:17:42 GMT -5
This is awesome. Usually with other companies, its the other way around. I need it now.
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Post by fbczar on Nov 25, 2014 15:38:09 GMT -5
This is awesome. Usually with other companies, its the other way around. I need it now. My sentiments exactly. I could not understand the use of a DSD1793 with its 113db SNR. The DSD1796 is a perfect match to the XMC-1's fantastic analog section.
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Post by fbczar on Nov 25, 2014 15:48:36 GMT -5
Any thoughts on ADC quality? DAC far more important for most I assume, but if you had an analog source and wanted to use the DSP/crossover/room correction capabilities of the XMC-1 in the signal path... The XMC-1 uses a PCM4202 ADC. It has a SNR ratio of 118db! Very nice.
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Post by junchoon on Dec 18, 2016 21:23:23 GMT -5
It is an old thread, but I just want to know, for the balanced out, does it uses one DSD1796 per channel, means a total of 2 DACs for the main Left and Right XLR outputs?
I was told for a balanced output, it needs a minimum one DAC per channel to be considered full balanced.
Thanks.
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Post by fbczar on Dec 19, 2016 0:06:18 GMT -5
It is an old thread, but I just want to know, for the balanced out, does it uses one DSD1796 per channel, means a total of 2 DACs for the main Left and Right XLR outputs? I was told for a balanced output, it needs a minimum one DAC per channel to be considered full balanced. Thanks. The XMC-1 is capable of fully balanced operation. However, you need to understand that the XMC-1 can only operate can only be balanced when it is connected to a fully balanced amplifier like the XPA-1, XPA-1L or one of the upcoming balanced modular amps from Emotiva. Of course, other companies like ATI also make fully balanced amps. Also the only balanced channels on the XMC-1 are the left and right front channels. I use two XPA-1L monoblocks. The combo is deadly quiet, powerful and dynamic. I cannot remember for sure, but I believe the DSD1796 is actually an 8 channel DAC. Emotiva uses two of the channels for each balanced channel and the rest for other outputs. You should be able to find the info on the XMC-1's info page. Balanced or not using two channels per output is quieter than one channel per output. Perhaps someone else can verify the DAC configuration for you.
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Post by dwaleke on Dec 19, 2016 7:48:11 GMT -5
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Post by fbczar on Dec 19, 2016 8:19:23 GMT -5
You are correct, the DSD1796 is a stereo DAC. My bad. However, the XMC-1 does require balanced amplifiers to operate in balanced mode for stereo so purchasers need to take that into consideration if balanced operation is a priority. As I said before, I use a pair of balanced XPA-1L amps now and am very pleased with the result, but I ran the XMC-1 with a B&K 7250 amp, which is not balanced, for several months and the sound was great. Either way the XMC-1 is an exceptionally good sounding processor.
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Post by junchoon on Dec 19, 2016 9:26:51 GMT -5
Pardon me as I am just trying to understand this further.
So XMC-1 is full balanced for LR even if it is using a single DAC, because the DSD1796 DAC is stereo. Yeah I know Emotiva has been stating XMC-1 is full balanced for left and right all this time, but a FB poster kept saying you must not have opamps and also must have twin DACs to be considered full balanced.
Just want to know which one is corrrect. Thanks.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,934
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Post by KeithL on Dec 19, 2016 10:45:14 GMT -5
That is incorrect. A DAC chip may be unbalanced or balanced, and a single chip may have dual (stereo) outputs, both of which are balanced. A balanced output means that you have two equal and out of phase outputs FOR EACH CHANNEL. (So a single balanced DAC has Out+ and Out- outputs; a stereo balanced DAC, like the DSD1796, has L+, L-, R+, and R- outputs.) It is an old thread, but I just want to know, for the balanced out, does it uses one DSD1796 per channel, means a total of 2 DACs for the main Left and Right XLR outputs? I was told for a balanced output, it needs a minimum one DAC per channel to be considered full balanced. Thanks.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,934
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Post by KeithL on Dec 19, 2016 11:16:47 GMT -5
There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings floating around about audio circuitry..... Op-amps have nothing whatsoever to do with being balanced or not. You can have both balanced and unbalanced circuits with and without op-amps. Likewise, a single DAC chip can contain a single unbalanced DAC, a single balanced DAC, or even dual balanced DACs (or even more). It simply depends on what DAC chip you're talking about. Some people just don't LIKE op-amps..... The reality there is that op-amps and discrete parts each have their own advantages and disadvantages. Therefore, neither is inherently better, and it's up to the designer to use the parts that work best in the circuit itself..... And, because certain parts may work very well in certain applications, and poorly in others, it usually doesn't make sense to make generalizations. Pardon me as I am just trying to understand this further. So XMC-1 is full balanced for LR even if it is using a single DAC, because the DSD1796 DAC is stereo. Yeah I know Emotiva has been stating XMC-1 is full balanced for left and right all this time, but a FB poster kept saying you must not have opamps and also must have twin DACs to be considered full balanced. Just want to know which one is corrrect. Thanks.
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Post by cwt on Dec 19, 2016 11:21:36 GMT -5
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stiehl11
Emo VIPs
Give me available light!
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 19, 2016 11:23:52 GMT -5
There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings floating around about audio circuitry..... Op-amps have nothing whatsoever to do with being balanced or not. You can have both balanced and unbalanced circuits with and without op-amps. Likewise, a single DAC chip can contain a single unbalanced DAC, a single balanced DAC, or even dual balanced DACs (or even more). It simply depends on what DAC chip you're talking about. Some people just don't LIKE op-amps..... The reality there is that op-amps and discrete parts each have their own advantages and disadvantages. Therefore, neither is inherently better, and it's up to the designer to use the parts that work best in the circuit itself..... And, because certain parts may work very well in certain applications, and poorly in others, it usually doesn't make sense to make generalizations. Pardon me as I am just trying to understand this further. So XMC-1 is full balanced for LR even if it is using a single DAC, because the DSD1796 DAC is stereo. Yeah I know Emotiva has been stating XMC-1 is full balanced for left and right all this time, but a FB poster kept saying you must not have opamps and also must have twin DACs to be considered full balanced. Just want to know which one is corrrect. Thanks. But it's Facebook... everything on Facebook is true.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Dec 19, 2016 11:29:00 GMT -5
You've reached the correct conclusion - but not using the correct logic. And that poster on FB is incorrect... regardless of how many times he repeats himself. (Where he's probably getting confused is that many older DAC chips had a total of two outputs, which could be used as a pair of stereo unbalanced outputs, or tied together as a single balanced output.) The DSD1796 is a stereo BALANCED DAC - it has stereo outputs, and each output is balanced. The outputs on the XMC-1, and the signal paths between the DSD1796 and those outputs, are also balanced. Therefore, those outputs are fully balanced. Pardon me as I am just trying to understand this further. So XMC-1 is full balanced for LR even if it is using a single DAC, because the DSD1796 DAC is stereo. Yeah I know Emotiva has been stating XMC-1 is full balanced for left and right all this time, but a FB poster kept saying you must not have opamps and also must have twin DACs to be considered full balanced. Just want to know which one is corrrect. Thanks.
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