Strange Zone 2 problem on new 8100

[MusicHead]

Hello folks,

about two weeks ago I got my 8100 from Amazon. I am using it in a 5.0 configuration, planning later on to add a sub, but still stay with a five speakers configuration. One of the last things I checked was the Zone 2 and Zone 3 outputs, as that is something I really have no use for, given the layout of my house. Zone 3 pre out works as it should, however Zone 2 appears to have a problem. Whether I get the L/R signals from the Zone 2 pre out with an external stereo amp or use the SBL and SBR amps of the 8100 (with the speaker function switch in the back popped out, as indicated in the manual), as soon as I increase the Zone 2 volume just one click the right channel blasts out at max volume and the left channel stays totally silent. Even more strange, experimenting with the external amplifier (so that I can control the volume through it), I found out that if I increase the Zone 2 volume to its max setting (80, just like the main), both left and right channel out of Zone 2 works fine. What actually happens is that as I increase Zone 2 volume the left channel starts coming up while the right channels stays more or less constant a max volume, although I can hear some slight volume up and down variations along the way to 80 and at time the sound is slightly distorted. As Zone 2 volume approaches 75 or so, the Left and Right levels start getting even and once I hit 80, everything sounds right.

The behavior described above is always the same regardless of the source I select for Zone 2, either digital, analog, Bluetooth or the Tuner. At first I thought that maybe the second DAC used for Zone 2 was busted, but if that were the case, it should work with Analog inputs or the Tuner. The problem is not in the power amps, because if I use the SBL and SBR channels in a 7-speaker configuration they work just fine, whether that is a 7.0 set-up or a 5.0 with front Bi-amping. Also, I have exactly the same problem picking the signal from the Zone 2 pre out and using an external amp, as mentioned before. Therefore, the power amp section works fine.

I have reset the 8100 to the default settings three times, through the Setup -> Load Default menu, no changes. I was/am hoping it could be just a firmware/configuration issue, but the problem is still there. I emailed Emotiva tech support last week and called them this morning. The guy I spoke to, after hearing the description of the problem, fairly quickly suggested I just return the unit to Amazon and get a replacement. When I mentioned that they are sold out and Amazon as a note saying "Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.", he said to buy one directly from Emotiva, as they are about to get more.

So why this post? Just wanted to ask:

- As any other 8100 owner experienced the same problem with Zone 2?
- Does anyone know if there is a "hard reset" procedure for the 8100? Something for example with a combination of button presses on the front panel? I am not so sure the "Load Default" is a true full reset, as the 8100 still "remembers" the three phones I had paired with it via Bluetooth. It could just be that the Bluetooth is a separate module with its memory, but I do not know for sure.

I have time until January 31 to return the 8100 to Amazon. However, the Emotiva web site still does not show any way to order one and the "reserve" button gets you to a non existent page....  Everything else in the 8100 works perfectly fine, thus if I could order and get one from Emotive prior to January 31 I could just swap the new one in, check that everything is fine and ship back the other to Amazon with no downtime. But will Emotiva get more soon?

I am half tempted to just let this go, keep the receiver as it is and don't bother with the annoyance of having to disconnect everything, ship the receiver back and do it all over again with another one ordered from Emotiva . I will never use a Zone 2 or 3 set-up and from the beginning I intended to use the 8100 in a five channel set-up and get more power per channel.

I do not know, I guess I will keep an eye on Emotiva's 8100 web page and see when they open up to orders again.

In the meantime, I would greatly appreciate if other 8100 owners would chime in with their experience with Zone 2 and/or information on a "hard reset" procedure, if there is one.

Thanks in advance and Happy New Year everyone!

[Dark Ranger]

Hi musichead,

I own a Fusion 8100 and have tried to replicate the issue without success. Here's what I've done:


1) Tried using the Fusion's built-in amplifiers to power Zone 2 (selectable Zone/Surround Back switch was popped OUT). I don't have any analog sources, so I used HDMI 3 and OPT 1 digital inputs on the Fusion for testing. No volume issues or channel mismatches. Everything works as expected.

2) Tried using the Zone 2 unbalanced RCA outputs directly to my DC-1 analog input (since I don't have a spare amp available). I used HDMI 3 and OPT 1 digital inputs on the Fusion for testing. No volume issues or channel mismatches. Everything works as expected.

3) Tried using the Zone 3 unbalanced RCA outputs directly to my DC-1 analog input. I used HDMI 3 and OPT 1 digital inputs on the Fusion for testing. No volume issues or channel mismatches. Everything works as expected.


My guess is that the issue you described is a firmware glitch rather than a hardware issue. I'd see if Emotiva can give you the DSP file and instructions for reflashing your Fusion. Just for kicks, what FW version do you have? You can find this info in Menu > Setup > Version and look at the Main CPU string. Mine is V1.52.02.51 which as of Oct 21, 2014, was the latest code according to Emotiva.

I am unaware of any hard reset procedure. You might try flipping the back panel rocker switch to OFF after doing the reset to factory defaults. Let the AVR sit for a minute or two without power. Then flip the rocker back on, power up the Fusion, and go through the setup process.

If no go with a firmware reflash, I'd definitely consider replacing the unit. You might not be affected by this issue since you don't use Zone 2/3, but if you ever resell it, the new owner might find this issue to be a showstopper. It's also an issue that should be covered under warranty.

[MusicHead]

Dark Ranger,

thank you very much for taking the time to check Zone 2 on your Fusion and reply to my post. Zone 3 works perfectly on mine too, it is only Zone 2 that seems to have an issue. I had tried already to "Load Default" and then off for a couple of minutes from the back rocker switch, twice... I too think it might be a "corrupted" firmware issue. When I found out about this problem at first I was trying with another pair of speaker connected to the SBL and SBR on the Fusion, therefore I could not experiment that much, given the full blast of power I'd get on the right channel only as soon as I activated the Zone 2, even at just one click of the volume scale.

But later, when I tried the Zone 2 pre out, fed into my old Dolby Surround amp, I could control the volume through the external amplifier, and so I noticed the very strange behavior of the Zone 2 volume control, as I described in my previous posting. Since everything works perfectly with the volume at max, it seems like the volume control of Zone 2 is the issue and I find it plausible it could be a firmware problem in my particular unit.

I will see if Emotiva is willing to share with me the file to re-flash the 8100. I work with electronics and I have flashed from scratch lots of devices over the years, including smartphones, which can be a real pain to re-flash. The firmware version on my 8100 is newer than yours, it is V1.52.02.54. I received my 8100 on December 12.

Considering that Amazon has run out of stock and Emotiva still shows none, it is something worth to try, before making my mind about returning it or not. Frankly I am not to worried about resale value. I tend to keep my equipment for many years. If it had not died I would probably still have my NAD T-752! I got the 8100 for $420, no taxes and free shipping from Amazon. Even if I want to re-sell it in say two or three years how much could I ask for it by then, $200-$250? I'd rather keep it as a second system, maybe just 2-ch music.

Well, will see, because I got it from Amazon during the holidays I have until January 31 to return it. Should be plenty of time to come to a conclusion and to see if Emotiva gets more, should I decide to return it and get a new one directly from them, in case Amazon does not get more (although I suspect my unit really came from Emotiva anyway, just fulfilled by Amazon).

[Dark Ranger]

I wish you good luck with the process and hopefully Emotiva can supply you with the necessary files and instructions. If the reflash doesn't fix it, perhaps there was an unintended Zone 2 FW bug created in V.54. I've seen that happen before. A downgrade to V.51 might be worth a shot if the change log of V.54 is minimal.

At least it's not a showstopper for you in your current configuration.

[MusicHead]

Thanks, yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Knowing that the previous firmware release works opens another option, assuming that's where the problem originates. Chad at Emotiva told he has not received reports of other owners with the same problem. However, if the .54 release is very recent, it could just be that I was the first one to report it: -).

I would have not even noticed it, had I not been the usual me and tried ALL possible speaker configurations, even those I do not need...

Well, if I end up ordering another from Emotiva, at least I won't have any downtime. I can wait for the new one to arrive, test it and only then return to Amazon the one I have now.

[MusicHead]

Dark Ranger,

I got from tech support the firmware version V1.52.02.52 and the installer program, flashed it on the 8100 this evening and bingo, it fixed Zone 2 volume control issue. Now it works over the full 0 to 80 scale, no distortion on the right channel, no dead left channel, everything just fine. I checked only picking the signal from Zone 2 pre out and feeding it into my Bluetooth speaker, but since the problem was the same either I did that or used the SBL and SBR channel with another set of speakers, I expect the problem to be gone for good in either case. Just to be sure, later this week or over the weekend I will try with the speakers too.

This is still a bit of a head scratcher, as I had contacted another forum member I knew had version V1.52.02.54 on his 8100 and he did NOT have the problem with Zone 2 I had. The only explanation I can think of is that when my unit was originally flashed at the factory, for some reason part of the code got corrupted. Still sound far fetched, but I really do not know what else could have been.

At any rate, no need to return the 8100, yeah!

[Dark Ranger]

Great news! Thanks for the update.

Based on what you've said, I'm inclined to agree that the reflash fixed the issue rather than being linked to a specific code version. It's very possible the original flash of your unit did not load successfully.

In any case, I'm thrilled that you have a fully working unit. Enjoy!

[MusicHead]

You have no idea how thrilled I am!!!! Even though I do not need Zone 2 in my set-up, it is a relief that I do not have to worry about getting a replacement unit. Unfortunately tech support did not have at hand the V1.52.02.54 firmware file, I would have preferred to give a try to that one and keep V1.52.02.52 as a last resort. At any rate, if there will be future firmware updates it is a moot point anyway. At least I know how to do it now.

Just out of curiosity I have sent another email to tech support asking the changelog for version V1.52.02.54. Since I "rolled back" the firmware, I'd like to understand what had been changed from V1.52.02.52 to V1.52.02.54.

As of now I am aware of at least three firmware revisions: V1.52.02.51, V1.52.02.52 and V1.52.02.54. It does not seem like Emotiva has posted them for download on the Fusion 8100 page, but tech support did not even flinch when I asked for the files. I wonder if Emotiva "policy" is to provide firmware updates on request (besides upgrading the latest production units as new firmware is released) or I am missing something.

I never owned an Emotiva before, so I am not yet really in tune with Emotiva's thinking.

[Dark Ranger]

The old Emotiva website used to have a fleshed-out Resources section with downloads available for current and retired products. You could find the latest firmware updates there, too.

Nowadays, the documentation and extras are built into each product page. That being said, I don't recall ever seeing firmware update files for the Fusion 8100. If I'm honest, I just figured that the Fusion was a case of the UMC-1, that is to say the latest FW had been around for awhile and no further updates were released.

It's good to know this unit is still being tweaked. It appears that one must contact customer support to get these FW updates. In your case, hopefully you can obtain a change log as desired. It would be interesting to see the bug fixes.

I think I'm going to leave my Fusion alone for the time being since I haven't run into any issues yet. Like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[MusicHead]

D.R.,

that's what I would have expected, but I do not mind having to ask for firmware, since Emo is so open in providing it. One way or another the availability of a new revision leaks out, if nothing else through new buyers, which would get units with the latest and greatest flashed at the factory.

Yeah, I guess it is because electronics is my profession, but I hate doing things blindly. Although I have not detected so far any difference in operation between rev .54 and rev .52, I'd like to know what the differences between the two are. There has to be a reason for releasing .54.