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Post by 509Paul on Mar 24, 2016 13:20:18 GMT -5
The spot where the speakers would come together is probably 20 feet behind my listening position. They did not need much toe in too sharpen the center image. If you have a SPL meter check the levels of your front left and right speakers with Dirac engaged. If they differ your center image could move off center, lose focus , become fuzzy, etc. If the levels are dissimilar match one to the other and see what happens. I have just given up on Dirac because it will not work right in my room. Maybe I will try it again in my new house but at this point I am tired of fighting with it.
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Post by fbczar on Mar 24, 2016 14:11:50 GMT -5
The default speaker groupings in Dirac for a 7.1 system are L&R front, Center Channel, Side Surrounds and Back Surrounds. Optionally you can group speakers. For example you can force Dirac to apply the same curve to the L&R front and center channel. You could also group the side and back surrounds so they would all share the same curve. I suppose you could group all the speakers and have Dirac apply the same curve to all speakers, including the subwoofer, as one big group. Can anyone speak to the pros and cons of grouping speakers in Dirac. Can you also speak to the effect grouping the front three channels would have on stereo music when only the L&R front speakers would be in play? Since crossover points can be selected prior to running Dirac I assume the crossover points would be set by those default groupings and those setting would limit Dirac's impact to the selected crossover point.
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Post by pepar on Mar 24, 2016 14:36:39 GMT -5
I would group main speakers if I wanted to simply apply a house curve, e.g. a gentle lift from 12k to 20k as well as a slight bump at the 100-200 area.
Jeff
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Post by namikis on Mar 25, 2016 9:50:44 GMT -5
Kudos to Damon in Emotiva tech support. I called to ask a few questions about how to configure the XMC-1 to do certain things and ended up talking to him for 30 minutes about all things XMC and how to get the most out of it using the equipment I have. Great tech support!! Thanks!
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Post by pepar on Mar 25, 2016 21:39:37 GMT -5
It is good to see a forum post with positive comments/praise. Many times happy satisfied users are busy enjoying their systems leaving only the disgruntled to post.
Jeff
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Post by brucemck2 on Jul 15, 2016 14:50:08 GMT -5
I recently started to play with Dirac on a new Emotiva processor. I can change the target curves, but, there's no parameter that lets me limit the amount of correction applied to each channel or even overall (Trinnov has a max gain and max cut parameter that works really well.)
I'd like to limit the degree of correction, and, to increase the overall gain available to the LCR within the system post correction. (Currently, I get almost 10db lower volume out of the LCR post-correction than I get pre-correction, using pink noise as the volume reference.) A few questions ....
What limits "overall gain" .... If I set the target curve to track above most of the actual/measured, with only (say) a few humps (all under 3db) over the target curve, will that provide more gain in the end result than if I set the target curve below most of the actual/measured with only a (say) a few dips (all under 3db) below the target curve?
If one set of speakers is much louder than another (the case with my surrounds), will I get more gain out of my fronts if they start higher than my surrounds in uncorrected level or lower? I can change the gain of the fronts and surrounds at the amps prior to running Dirac. The same question with my subs: will I get more gain out of my LCR post-correction if I start with my subs hot or if I start with my subs lower than my mains?
Finally, can I "mimic" Trinnov's boost/cut parameter by simply creating target curves that more closely track the actuals?
Thanks.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jul 15, 2016 15:24:49 GMT -5
I recently started to play with Dirac on a new Emotiva processor. I can change the target curves, but, there's no parameter that lets me limit the amount of correction applied to each channel or even overall (Trinnov has a max gain and max cut parameter that works really well.) I'd like to limit the degree of correction, and, to increase the overall gain available to the LCR within the system post correction. (Currently, I get almost 10db lower volume out of the LCR post-correction than I get pre-correction, using pink noise as the volume reference.) A few questions .... What limits "overall gain" .... If I set the target curve to track above most of the actual/measured, with only (say) a few humps (all under 3db) over the target curve, will that provide more gain in the end result than if I set the target curve below most of the actual/measured with only a (say) a few dips (all under 3db) below the target curve? If one set of speakers is much louder than another (the case with my surrounds), will I get more gain out of my fronts if they start higher than my surrounds in uncorrected level or lower? I can change the gain of the fronts and surrounds at the amps prior to running Dirac. The same question with my subs: will I get more gain out of my LCR post-correction if I start with my subs hot or if I start with my subs lower than my mains? Finally, can I "mimic" Trinnov's boost/cut parameter by simply creating target curves that more closely track the actuals? Thanks. Maximum gain in Dirac Full is not user adjustable. If I understand Flak correctly, Dirac will attenuate the loudest speaker down to that of the softer one. Boost is applied to help make the response match that of any speaker's target if necessary.
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Post by brucemck2 on Jul 16, 2016 15:31:03 GMT -5
Maximum gain in Dirac Full is not user adjustable. If I understand Flak correctly, Dirac will attenuate the loudest speaker down to that of the softer one. Boost is applied to help make the response match that of any speaker's target if necessary. So, if my surrounds are 3db lower volume than my mains, then even before any correction is applies I am losing 3db of gain on my mains because the processor will be reducing the volume on those speakers to match the rears. (Even if the processor boosts the rears, the same impact of losing 3db on the fronts at maximum volume, as the rears can't be raised above clipping.) Thus, I should raise the gain in my rears (which I can do at the amp and not in the processor) by 3db to get that overall level of gain back. Any idea on the target curves? Conceptually, it would seem that having only a small amount (say, 3-5db) of signal in the actual being ABOVE the target curve would leave more overall system gain available than having an equivalent amount BELOW the target curve. The reasoning being that peaks above the target curve could be attenuated by the correction filter, leaving all other gain unchanged. Whereas dips below the correction filter would need to be increased by the correction filter, and the whole curve would have to be brought down in level by the maximum amount of correction in order to prevent clipping.
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Post by fbczar on Jul 16, 2016 17:26:18 GMT -5
Maximum gain in Dirac Full is not user adjustable. If I understand Flak correctly, Dirac will attenuate the loudest speaker down to that of the softer one. Boost is applied to help make the response match that of any speaker's target if necessary. So, if my surrounds are 3db lower volume than my mains, then even before any correction is applies I am losing 3db of gain on my mains because the processor will be reducing the volume on those speakers to match the rears. (Even if the processor boosts the rears, the same impact of losing 3db on the fronts at maximum volume, as the rears can't be raised above clipping.) Thus, I should raise the gain in my rears (which I can do at the amp and not in the processor) by 3db to get that overall level of gain back. Any idea on the target curves? Conceptually, it would seem that having only a small amount (say, 3-5db) of signal in the actual being ABOVE the target curve would leave more overall system gain available than having an equivalent amount BELOW the target curve. The reasoning being that peaks above the target curve could be attenuated by the correction filter, leaving all other gain unchanged. Whereas dips below the correction filter would need to be increased by the correction filter, and the whole curve would have to be brought down in level by the maximum amount of correction in order to prevent clipping. Dirac's advertised correction range is +or- 10db. However, in as much as boosting an actual null is an exercise in futility, it is usually best to create a custom room curve with that in mind. The easiest way to proceed is to design a curve and then lower the entire curve below the 0db baseline to limit frequency boosts to the extent feasible relative to its overall effect on system volume. Whenever you lower the curve you must be aware that the overall volume level of the system will be lowered. Of course, you can compensate with your processor's volume control, but practically speaking, anything more than a 5db lowering of the entire curve is problematic. In my system I was able to lower the entire curve -2.5db below the 0db baseline with great results. You should google "A Brief Guide to Creating Custom Target Curves With Dirac Live" for more information on the concept.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jul 16, 2016 18:10:03 GMT -5
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Post by CoyoteArms on Jul 22, 2016 23:27:13 GMT -5
After my first run using Dirac Full a few months ago, I reviewed what I had done before doing more cases, such as 2-channel to compare that with XMC-1's Reference mode to see how that affect imaging. While reviewing if what I had done previously was done correctly, I found the following entry in the FAQ's of this thread: What do I have to setup on the XMC-1 before using Dirac? - You need to go into Menu | Setup | Speakers | Dirac | Size and configure this menu tree so that Dirac knows how many speakers you have. I started asking myself exactly what does this mean? Just Sizes? or Sizes and Crossovers. Then I started thinking about levels and distances too. These are such basic issues, it seems they should be clarified in FAQ, Then I found the following for the MinDSP's:
www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/143666-rew-dirac-live-tells-truth.html: MiniDSPs recommendation is to have the speaker levels, distances and crossovers set with no additional avr processing before running running the sweeps. When you do this Dirac will look at each sub+speaker combination as a single full range speaker and generate the filter accordingly.
Wow! Is this much more detailed description of the requirements also true for the XMC-1? If so, it strongly implies that changes to any one of these after the filters are loaded onto the XMC-1, even level of center speaker during a movie to better hear dialog could change imaging. If all this is true then shouldn't the FAQ's clearly state do those things before AND to not touch them after Dirac?
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jul 23, 2016 0:40:51 GMT -5
After my first run using Dirac Full a few months ago, I reviewed what I had done before doing more cases, such as 2-channel to compare that with XMC-1's Reference mode to see how that affect imaging. While reviewing if what I had done previously was done correctly, I found the following entry in the FAQ's of this thread: What do I have to setup on the XMC-1 before using Dirac? - You need to go into Menu | Setup | Speakers | Dirac | Size and configure this menu tree so that Dirac knows how many speakers you have. I started asking myself exactly what does this mean? Just Sizes? or Sizes and Crossovers. Then I started thinking about levels and distances too. These are such basic issues, it seems they should be clarified in FAQ, Then I found the following for the MinDSP's:
www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/143666-rew-dirac-live-tells-truth.html: MiniDSPs recommendation is to have the speaker levels, distances and crossovers set with no additional avr processing before running running the sweeps. When you do this Dirac will look at each sub+speaker combination as a single full range speaker and generate the filter accordingly.
Wow! Is this much more detailed description of the requirements also true for the XMC-1? If so, it strongly implies that changes to any one of these after the filters are loaded onto the XMC-1, even level of center speaker during a movie to better hear dialog could change imaging. If all this is true then shouldn't the FAQ's clearly state do those things before AND to not touch them after Dirac?
All that really matters is that Dirac knows what speakers are connected. The actual size and crossover (distances are not available in the Dirac preset) make no difference to Dirac. All it uses is the number of speakers and will test each as a full range speaker on it's own. The sizes and crossovers are for you to decide on and only come into play after Dirac has finished.
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Post by mickseymour on Jul 23, 2016 10:15:30 GMT -5
All that really matters is that Dirac knows what speakers are connected. The actual size and crossover (distances are not available in the Dirac preset) make no difference to Dirac. All it uses is the number of speakers and will test each as a full range speaker on it's own. The sizes and crossovers are for you to decide on and only come into play after Dirac has finished. The XMC-1 Dirac manual say you must set sizes in the Dirac preset before a Dirac run, although I get the impression that it's only so none are accidentally left at None, or included where they don't exist; RB/LB for instance.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jul 23, 2016 10:28:00 GMT -5
All that really matters is that Dirac knows what speakers are connected. The actual size and crossover (distances are not available in the Dirac preset) make no difference to Dirac. All it uses is the number of speakers and will test each as a full range speaker on it's own. The sizes and crossovers are for you to decide on and only come into play after Dirac has finished. The XMC-1 Dirac manual say you must set sizes in the Dirac preset before a Dirac run, although I get the impression that it's only so none are accidentally left at None, or included where they don't exist; RB/LB for instance. Exactly. The "size" is really selecting the speaker as active or not for Dirac. Dirac does not care weather it's large or small, only that it's either of those or none. On or off is what it boils down to and Large and Small are both considered as On.
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Post by CoyoteArms on Jul 23, 2016 14:49:09 GMT -5
After my first run using Dirac Full a few months ago, I reviewed what I had done before doing more cases, such as 2-channel to compare that with XMC-1's Reference mode to see how that affect imaging. While reviewing if what I had done previously was done correctly, I found the following entry in the FAQ's of this thread: What do I have to setup on the XMC-1 before using Dirac? - You need to go into Menu | Setup | Speakers | Dirac | Size and configure this menu tree so that Dirac knows how many speakers you have. I started asking myself exactly what does this mean? Just Sizes? or Sizes and Crossovers. Then I started thinking about levels and distances too. These are such basic issues, it seems they should be clarified in FAQ, Then I found the following for the MinDSP's:
www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/143666-rew-dirac-live-tells-truth.html: MiniDSPs recommendation is to have the speaker levels, distances and crossovers set with no additional avr processing before running running the sweeps. When you do this Dirac will look at each sub+speaker combination as a single full range speaker and generate the filter accordingly.
Wow! Is this much more detailed description of the requirements also true for the XMC-1? If so, it strongly implies that changes to any one of these after the filters are loaded onto the XMC-1, even level of center speaker during a movie to better hear dialog could change imaging. If all this is true then shouldn't the FAQ's clearly state do those things before AND to not touch them after Dirac?
All that really matters is that Dirac knows what speakers are connected. The actual size and crossover (distances are not available in the Dirac preset) make no difference to Dirac. All it uses is the number of speakers and will test each as a full range speaker on it's own. The sizes and crossovers are for you to decide on and only come into play after Dirac has finished. Great and thanks. That clears up what needs to be done inside the XMC-1 BEFORE running Dirac. Now, If you will just clarify one thing in your response, I believe I will be able to move ahead. You say sizes and crossovers are for one to decide on after Dirac is finished. But how can crossovers even be set in the XMC-1 after Dirac's filters are downloaded, because crossover frequency choices do not appear on my XMC-1 in the Setup Speakers > Preset Dirac Live menu AT ANY TIME. If that is the case, how the heck does the XMC-1 operating in Dirac mode know what bandwidth of program material to sent to each channel? Is that determined by the "curtains" chosen when running Dirac?
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jul 23, 2016 16:32:50 GMT -5
All that really matters is that Dirac knows what speakers are connected. The actual size and crossover (distances are not available in the Dirac preset) make no difference to Dirac. All it uses is the number of speakers and will test each as a full range speaker on it's own. The sizes and crossovers are for you to decide on and only come into play after Dirac has finished. Great and thanks. That clears up what needs to be done inside the XMC-1 BEFORE running Dirac. Now, If you will just clarify one thing in your response, I believe I will be able to move ahead. You say sizes and crossovers are for one to decide on after Dirac is finished. But how can crossovers even be set in the XMC-1 after Dirac's filters are downloaded, because crossover frequency choices do not appear on my XMC-1 in the Setup Speakers > Preset Dirac Live menu AT ANY TIME. If that is the case, how the heck does the XMC-1 operating in Dirac mode know what bandwidth of program material to sent to each channel? Is that determined by the "curtains" chosen when running Dirac? But the crossovers are indeed adjustable in the Dirac preset as follows: Setup > Speakers > Dirac > Size > Fronts > Small > Frequency. Once you select Small, just move to the right one more time and you'll see the Frequency selection. Just do the same for all your speaker groupings ie Center, Surrounds, etc.
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Post by CoyoteArms on Jul 24, 2016 9:51:35 GMT -5
Thanks again geebo for being so patient with me! I am experiencing enhanced embarrassment for not noticing the crossover settings in the Setup for Dirac Mode. I hope your help and comments may also come in handy for others that may run down the same blind alley perhaps by not realizing Dirac implementations for other devices such as MiniDSP's may be different than for the XMC-1.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jul 24, 2016 10:27:35 GMT -5
Thanks again geebo for being so patient with me! I am experiencing enhanced embarrassment for not noticing the crossover settings in the Setup for Dirac Mode. I hope your help and comments may also come in handy for others that may run down the same blind alley perhaps by not realizing Dirac implementations for other devices such as MiniDSP's may be different than for the XMC-1. Glad to help.
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Post by Mark on Sept 26, 2016 11:15:40 GMT -5
Has anyone installed Mac OS Sierra? Does Dirac Full run normal?
I have Dirac Full running on El Capitan with no issues. I don't want to upgrade to Sierra until I know Dirac functions properly on Sierra so who out there is the guinea pig?
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Post by donh50 on Jun 12, 2017 22:20:20 GMT -5
The XMC-1 treats the left and right subs as separate (the RCA and XLR for each channel carry the same signal). If you select MONO SUB, only the left sub output will work. If you select STEREO SUB, they will be considered to be entirely separate. If you select DUAL MONO, then both subs will be calibrated separately (including distance settings), but afterwards will be fed a summed mono signal. Apologies for bringing up an old post, but a search only yielded two responses for dual mono subs, and this was the only relevant one. The manual is a bit ambiguous; it mentions the sub modes for the "regular" presets but is not clear (perhaps just to me) if they also apply with Dirac Live. I would like to confirm the information above for dual mono subs using Dirac Live (full) and the XMC-1. I recently picked up new speakers and moved the listening position. Being lazy and/or swamped at work, plus I am not sure everything is in its final position yet, I don't want to spend the time to re-align my subs if I can avoid it. I have a four subs, a pair up front, and a pair in the rear. The front two are roughly equidistant from the MLP, as are the rear two. I adjusted the phase (delay) in pairs and then ran them as (from) a single mono feed. Now, I would like to separate them and run dual mono with the front pair and rear pair aligned separately. That will allow me to tweak the listening position as I dial in my new setup whilst accurately compensating for the sub pairs' distance to the MLP during multiple Dirac Live runs. Will this work OK? Second question: In this scenario, will the two sub (pairs) appear in Dirac Live's listing as two individual subs, or will they appear as a single sub and the XMC-1 will still accurately compensate for the different positions relative to the MLP? Thanks, Don
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