Audio Research SP8 vs. Rogue Ninety Nine?
Jan 26, 2015 19:52:20 GMT -5
brubacca and lionear like this
Post by sidvicious on Jan 26, 2015 19:52:20 GMT -5
Audio Research Sp8 vs. Rogue Magnum 99?
What can I say the quest for better sound entraps us all. On Friday, I went to my favorite local audio store after looking at their website and I saw a Audio Research Sp8. I really wasn't thinking too much about this product, but I was curious and the question hounded me, just what if I mated an Audio Research product with another Audio Research product, in this case the VT-100 MKIII? I have been using the Rogue 99 pre-amp with it and although it is okay, there is something missing.
When I turn the volume up with the remote or physically get up to turn it up or down I hear a hissing or white noise and when I bought it I was told it was motor noise, but this was the same noise I was getting even when I hooked it up to the Emotiva Xpa 2. The sound of the Rogue was and is good but it doesn't sound good with all types of music. The SP-8 had been updated from replacing the caps to infineon and replacing some tubes. The SP-8 also has a built in phono stage. Both the Emotiva and Audio Research are High output/high gain amplifiers along with the Rogue which I keep the gain switch on position 4 because of vinyl. When the Rogue was mated with a Parasound A-21 when I changed I had two tubes changed in it there was no hissing, just the quick motor noise that you hear when using a remote control, zip, zip.
Well what started off as a test by switching out the SP-8 turned out to be a sobering experience. From the time I hooked up the SP-8 I was in disbelief. How could a pre-amplifier that was made in 1981 sound not only this good, but better than the Rogue, not by a little, but a whole lot. The SP-8 made, guitars stand out, pianos sing. Music listen to was John Abercrombie and Ralph Towner- Sargasso Sea, Tina Brooks- True Blue, Kenny Burrell-Midnight Blue, Melody Gardot-Absence, Alexander O'Neal-Hearsay, Donnell Jones-Journey of a Gemini and Cassandra Wilson-New Moon Daughter, the Beatles-Abbey Road.
I changed no cables or any other components and my sources are a Cambridge Audio Cd 350, VPI HW-19 MK4 with a Van Den Hul Frog Gold cartridge and a Marantz NA-7004. I also used the built in phono stage in the SP-8 along with my stand alone Music Phonomena Nova-Battery Operated phono stage.
I pulled music off my computer with my Cambridge Dac-Magic that was ripped in WMA-Lossless. When I say that music sounded like what you would hear in a very high-end music store, with all instruments playing together but separate in their own space with air around the instruments. Every source that I played, CD, Vinyl and Computer files sounded incredible. It didn't matter what I played it all sounded good. I was peeling off records and stacking them on my ottoman and sitting back listening to how drums sounded and just in amazement that this was coming out of my listening room.
I did do research before picking up the SP-8 to try out and every review said it along with the SP-6,10,11 and 15 were very good and the SP-10 has a cult following with some thinking it has the best phono stage and possibly one of the best preamps that Audio Research had ever produced. I'm not sure about this as I have never heard the SP-10, but have heard the Reference 5 and it is an astounding piece, much, much, much, much better than the SP-8 and it should be for the 11-13 thousand it cost. I tried the built in phono stage and to me it sounds like a stand alone Audio Research PH3, which I've also demoed, which means it sounds great. For my cartridge it sounds great and the top end is even better than my stand along, but the bass is not. Maybe with a good Step Up Transformer the built in on the SP-8 will sound even better but believe me it's better than you would expect and most people would be happy enough to stop with it, especially if you had a moving magnet or a high output moving coil cartridge. My Vandersteen 2ce Signatures 2's got up and danced along with my Vandersteen sub. If the music called for deep bass, it was produced in spades and effortlessly. With the Rogue bass was produced but not with the authority and not without smearing the sound stage. I can't under stand how a product this old along with my VT100 MKIII sound this good.
With the SP-8 the sound stage is deep and wide and instruments are reproduced in their own space. The Pre-amp is allowing the amplifier to do what it does best and they work well together. I'm now hearing the bass that the VT100MKIII is capable of. Who would have thought I would have gone from a modern Emotiva system, which I still use XPA-2, XDA-2, ERC-1, USP-1 and revert back to the Audio Research separates from yester year.
I'm not totally fooled because I know what a modern, Audio Research Ref 5, Dac-8 or 9, with a Audio Research Ref-75 or Ref-150 sound like because I've spent some hours listening to them and I can tell you if the person is breathing, you hear it along with every detail and the gradual rising and falling of the music (like in real life concert) like no system I have ever heard with either with a Linn Lp-12 or SME-20 or Project 9 turntable used even with my current Vandersteen 2Ce Signature 2's, VanderSteen Quartro CT, Model 7's, Sonus Faber Venere 2.5, and 3.5. I didn't know Audio Research was this good. I thought I would have ended up with a McIntosh system instead which I have heard in another store.
For those of you that have doubts of what tubes sound like and are wondering why Emotiva is getting into the Tube game, find your best high end audio store and please listen to some of the equipment I mentioned and then tell me how much distortion tubes have and see if you don't leave the store with your jaw on the floor. You will see why the high-end audio shows lead with tubes and even VPI is getting into the Tube Amplifier game, quit frankly you will be amazed and a believer. If you would have told me this and that I would have ended up with a tube system I would have told you that you were crazy because I was strictly a solid state guy. I still like and use solid state, but when I really want to hear vinyl I listen to tubes. I'm at a point where I just can't let the SP-8 go back and I'm sure I will be buying it this Thursday. (Also the SP-8 along with some of the other SP models, especially the SP10 are going up in value and are highly sought after)
What can I say the quest for better sound entraps us all. On Friday, I went to my favorite local audio store after looking at their website and I saw a Audio Research Sp8. I really wasn't thinking too much about this product, but I was curious and the question hounded me, just what if I mated an Audio Research product with another Audio Research product, in this case the VT-100 MKIII? I have been using the Rogue 99 pre-amp with it and although it is okay, there is something missing.
When I turn the volume up with the remote or physically get up to turn it up or down I hear a hissing or white noise and when I bought it I was told it was motor noise, but this was the same noise I was getting even when I hooked it up to the Emotiva Xpa 2. The sound of the Rogue was and is good but it doesn't sound good with all types of music. The SP-8 had been updated from replacing the caps to infineon and replacing some tubes. The SP-8 also has a built in phono stage. Both the Emotiva and Audio Research are High output/high gain amplifiers along with the Rogue which I keep the gain switch on position 4 because of vinyl. When the Rogue was mated with a Parasound A-21 when I changed I had two tubes changed in it there was no hissing, just the quick motor noise that you hear when using a remote control, zip, zip.
Well what started off as a test by switching out the SP-8 turned out to be a sobering experience. From the time I hooked up the SP-8 I was in disbelief. How could a pre-amplifier that was made in 1981 sound not only this good, but better than the Rogue, not by a little, but a whole lot. The SP-8 made, guitars stand out, pianos sing. Music listen to was John Abercrombie and Ralph Towner- Sargasso Sea, Tina Brooks- True Blue, Kenny Burrell-Midnight Blue, Melody Gardot-Absence, Alexander O'Neal-Hearsay, Donnell Jones-Journey of a Gemini and Cassandra Wilson-New Moon Daughter, the Beatles-Abbey Road.
I changed no cables or any other components and my sources are a Cambridge Audio Cd 350, VPI HW-19 MK4 with a Van Den Hul Frog Gold cartridge and a Marantz NA-7004. I also used the built in phono stage in the SP-8 along with my stand alone Music Phonomena Nova-Battery Operated phono stage.
I pulled music off my computer with my Cambridge Dac-Magic that was ripped in WMA-Lossless. When I say that music sounded like what you would hear in a very high-end music store, with all instruments playing together but separate in their own space with air around the instruments. Every source that I played, CD, Vinyl and Computer files sounded incredible. It didn't matter what I played it all sounded good. I was peeling off records and stacking them on my ottoman and sitting back listening to how drums sounded and just in amazement that this was coming out of my listening room.
I did do research before picking up the SP-8 to try out and every review said it along with the SP-6,10,11 and 15 were very good and the SP-10 has a cult following with some thinking it has the best phono stage and possibly one of the best preamps that Audio Research had ever produced. I'm not sure about this as I have never heard the SP-10, but have heard the Reference 5 and it is an astounding piece, much, much, much, much better than the SP-8 and it should be for the 11-13 thousand it cost. I tried the built in phono stage and to me it sounds like a stand alone Audio Research PH3, which I've also demoed, which means it sounds great. For my cartridge it sounds great and the top end is even better than my stand along, but the bass is not. Maybe with a good Step Up Transformer the built in on the SP-8 will sound even better but believe me it's better than you would expect and most people would be happy enough to stop with it, especially if you had a moving magnet or a high output moving coil cartridge. My Vandersteen 2ce Signatures 2's got up and danced along with my Vandersteen sub. If the music called for deep bass, it was produced in spades and effortlessly. With the Rogue bass was produced but not with the authority and not without smearing the sound stage. I can't under stand how a product this old along with my VT100 MKIII sound this good.
With the SP-8 the sound stage is deep and wide and instruments are reproduced in their own space. The Pre-amp is allowing the amplifier to do what it does best and they work well together. I'm now hearing the bass that the VT100MKIII is capable of. Who would have thought I would have gone from a modern Emotiva system, which I still use XPA-2, XDA-2, ERC-1, USP-1 and revert back to the Audio Research separates from yester year.
I'm not totally fooled because I know what a modern, Audio Research Ref 5, Dac-8 or 9, with a Audio Research Ref-75 or Ref-150 sound like because I've spent some hours listening to them and I can tell you if the person is breathing, you hear it along with every detail and the gradual rising and falling of the music (like in real life concert) like no system I have ever heard with either with a Linn Lp-12 or SME-20 or Project 9 turntable used even with my current Vandersteen 2Ce Signature 2's, VanderSteen Quartro CT, Model 7's, Sonus Faber Venere 2.5, and 3.5. I didn't know Audio Research was this good. I thought I would have ended up with a McIntosh system instead which I have heard in another store.
For those of you that have doubts of what tubes sound like and are wondering why Emotiva is getting into the Tube game, find your best high end audio store and please listen to some of the equipment I mentioned and then tell me how much distortion tubes have and see if you don't leave the store with your jaw on the floor. You will see why the high-end audio shows lead with tubes and even VPI is getting into the Tube Amplifier game, quit frankly you will be amazed and a believer. If you would have told me this and that I would have ended up with a tube system I would have told you that you were crazy because I was strictly a solid state guy. I still like and use solid state, but when I really want to hear vinyl I listen to tubes. I'm at a point where I just can't let the SP-8 go back and I'm sure I will be buying it this Thursday. (Also the SP-8 along with some of the other SP models, especially the SP10 are going up in value and are highly sought after)
