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Post by jcam2881 on Jan 30, 2015 8:05:50 GMT -5
emo blue bi wired centre channel cable !!!!! for my buddy Nick.. made for a xpa 1L premium high performance cable.. black nymax cover sexy stuff!!! sewell dead bolts and locking harpoons.. light up your centre!! I think I understand what the allure is in building your own cables! Nice ... Coming from a dude who likes to venture into the basement for hours I think I might dip my toe into the waters . Great looking cables :-D
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 30, 2015 13:44:43 GMT -5
Right now I have the LF powered by an XPA-100, the RF powered by an XPA-1L and the C powered by one channel of an XPA-5. Obviously I've equalised the SPL's very carefully. I can't tell the difference for movies and neither can anyone else who has listened. With music I can just, just pick up the RF being different when it's in Class AB. Sometimes I think I'm imagining it. It's a fraction, a tiny fraction, more noticeable in Class A. I can't speak for differences in the sonic signature of the XPR range, as they not shipped to Australia, but I seriously doubt that there will be much difference at movie level volumes to the XPA range. I don't see the point in using the exact same amp on a center speaker either, almost every center speaker out there will sound slightly different to the L&R, even if the drivers are the same size the enclosure is smaller, so if the speaker isn't identical then why use an identical amp? my two cents worth. My centre speaker is a very close match sonically to the other 4, I worked with the speaker engineer to achieve that, and it is the same internal volume as the SR and SL. Cheers Gary
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Post by deltadube on Jan 30, 2015 15:41:07 GMT -5
using the same drivers and you go from vertical to horizontal its going to sound different...
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Post by guzz46 on Jan 31, 2015 2:30:10 GMT -5
I don't see the point in using the exact same amp on a center speaker either, almost every center speaker out there will sound slightly different to the L&R, even if the drivers are the same size the enclosure is smaller, so if the speaker isn't identical then why use an identical amp? my two cents worth. My centre speaker is a very close match sonically to the other 4, I worked with the speaker engineer to achieve that, and it is the same internal volume as the SR and SL. Cheers Gary But not the same internal volume as your stereo L&R, correct? my point is a center speaker won't sound exactly the same as your mains, sure timbre matching will be more or less the same, but a CC690 won't sound identical to a Studio 100, so I don't see the point in using an identical amp to drive it, you could use one with the same sonic signature, there's no way I would use an XPA-1 to drive my Silver Screen HD, it would be a big waste of money. But each to their own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 4:21:38 GMT -5
Right now I have the LF powered by an XPA-100, the RF powered by an XPA-1L and the C powered by one channel of an XPA-5. Obviously I've equalised the SPL's very carefully. I can't tell the difference for movies and neither can anyone else who has listened. With music I can just, just pick up the RF being different when it's in Class AB. Sometimes I think I'm imagining it. It's a fraction, a tiny fraction, more noticeable in Class A. I can't speak for differences in the sonic signature of the XPR range, as they not shipped to Australia, but I seriously doubt that there will be much difference at movie level volumes to the XPA range. Cheers Gary I don't see the point in using the exact same amp on a center speaker either, almost every center speaker out there will sound slightly different to the L&R, even if the drivers are the same size the enclosure is smaller, so if the speaker isn't identical then why use an identical amp? my two cents worth. Ideally in a perfect HT system (there are very few this way for practical room reasons in home theaters), the L, C and R speakers would all three be identical and in the same orientation with close to identical voice/timbre (slight differences due to room and placement effects). They only invented the horizontal center speaker sitting on its side for practical reasons (so they don't block the screen). Even in most systems with a unique center speaker that has slightly different voice/timbre than the L&R, these two left and right speakers are very likely slightly different sounding from each other although you might not be aware of it. This would be due to their not perfectly symmetrical positioning in your room. One is most likely closer to a cabinet, side wall or boundary, etc. and that slightly affects the sound no matter how subtle. Do a frequency response test on both the L&R speakers and you will see that they vary slightly. IMO there is no set reason to use different amps for the center versus the L&R, however, it is just fine if one chooses to do so. For my budget an amp with equal power to the LCR is more practical and usually cheaper. This is especially true during movies or multi-channel music with a full front soundstage spread equally thru all three speakers. The often voiced opinion that the center speaker is somehow more important than the L&R is not true IMO. Ideally they should all be as close together in voice/timbre as possible and provided the same amp power. (my two cents worth ..... )
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Post by guzz46 on Jan 31, 2015 4:47:56 GMT -5
IMO there is no set reason to use different amps for the center versus the L&R, however, it is just fine if one chooses to do so. For my budget an amp with equal power to the LCR is more practical and usually cheaper. This is especially true during movies or multi-channel music with a full front soundstage spread equally thru all three speakers. The often voiced opinion that the center speaker is somehow more important than the L&R is not true IMO. Ideally they should all be as close together in voice/timbre as possible and provided the same amp power. I have to respectfully disagree, if your system is home theater only then a 5 or 7 channel amp driving all your speakers would probably be fine, but if your system is a combined home theater and 2 channel system like mine is then using better amps (XPA-1's) driving your mains for critical 2 channel listening makes sense if your serious about 2 channel. But I could almost guarantee that I wouldn't be able to hear any difference if an XPA-1 was driving my center as opposed to an XPA-3, back in the day I had a Perreaux P200 driving some Studio 100's, and a Yamaha RXV4600 driving a CC590 center and Studio 20 rears.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 5:16:19 GMT -5
I completely respect your point. However, I didn't mean to imply necessarily 5 or 7 channel amps (although I do myself have an XPA-5), but the same amp power across the front, whether for movies or music. I think most folks do play some mult-channel music sources or multi-channel concerts. I'm in a little different camp and my system is both HT and music. I prefer in most cases multi-channel playback not only for my multi-channel sources but also for my 2 channel sources also (oh such heresy! ... ). Thus that perfectly smooth coherent spread across the front is important for me.
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Post by guzz46 on Jan 31, 2015 5:52:29 GMT -5
I have multi-channel music too, concert blu-rays, DVD-A and SACD discs, and I have a perfectly smooth coherent spread across the front with the XPA-3 driving my center and rears and the XPA-1's driving my mains, if I had a Signature SE as my center speaker then I could possible see the point in driving it with an XPA-1 if I was really really picky, but I just don't see the point when pretty much every center speaker is different from the main L&R.
No harm in doing it of course, I just think it's a unnecessary.
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Post by deltadube on Jan 31, 2015 13:44:04 GMT -5
I agree too about sending the same power to the centre channel as you do to the mains. This is especially true with the CC-690 as it is practically a studio 100 on its side. It's a BIG centre channel speaker. When watching a movie and something pans across the LCR, it just sounds right. I don't know, that's just my two cents (up here in Canada we got rid of the penny, so maybe that's just my 5 cents if I round it up.) ive got pennies from heaven..
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Post by bitsandbytes on Jan 31, 2015 16:20:33 GMT -5
I previously added an XPA-1 for my center channel to my 2 XPA-1's/XP5 combination. Playing music, it gave me a solid wall of sound coming across the front of the room. While not a huge improvement, it was more than marginal - and I considered it significant enough to be well worth the money. Why not wait until you purchase the Studio cc-690 v5 before you make a decision? After breaking the speaker in using your current XPA-1L, you can try the passive biamping using the xpa-5 channel for the bass like another member suggested earlier - then trial running a single connection to an XPR-1 amp to see what the differences are. Please keep us informed how this turns out if you do try this. Good luck
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 31, 2015 17:09:47 GMT -5
My uncle has a full Paradigm Signature 5.1 system (S8's + S6's + C5s' + Sub1) using my old XPA-2 / XPA-3 combo to drive them. Neither of us can fault that system, it handles 2.1 stereo music beautifully and movies are superb. The room is good, lots of soft furnishings and minimal acoustic treatment. It plays plenty loud enough, with total clarity and accuracy and the XPA's do it easily, with plenty in reserve.
I'm a firm believer in the more amplifier power the better, but even I question the logic of using an XPR-1 rated at 1000 watts with a CC90 that is rated by Paradigm as. Suitable Amplifier Power Range -15 to 300 watts Maximum Input Power - 210 watts
Then we have the spec differences between the Studio 100 and the CC90. I have found that the cross over specs are an indicator (not the only indicator) of sonic signature; CC90 Crossover = 2nd-order electro-acoustic at 3.0 kHz; 2nd-order electro-acoustic at 500 Hz (bass drivers) Studio 100 Crossover = 3rd-order electro-acoustic at 2.0 kHz; 3rd-order electro-acoustic at 300 Hz (bass drivers)
Frequency response is another indicator; CC90 Frequency Response = On-Axis ±2dB from 47 Hz - 20 kHz, 30° Off-Axis ±2dB from 47 Hz - 18 kHz Studio 100 Frequency Response = On-Axis ±2dB from 45 Hz - 22 kHz, Frequency Response 30° Off-Axis ±2dB from 45 Hz - 20 kHz
My view is that there are going to be far more differences due to the speaker specs than the differences between, say, an XPA-5 running the CC90 and an XPR-1 running the LF and RF.
Cheers Gary
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Jan 31, 2015 22:28:08 GMT -5
I previously added an XPA-1 for my center channel to my 2 XPA-1's/XP5 combination. Playing music, it gave me a solid wall of sound coming across the front of the room. While not a huge improvement, it was more than marginal - and I considered it significant enough to be well worth the money. Why not wait until you purchase the Studio cc-690 v5 before you make a decision? After breaking the speaker in using your current XPA-1L, you can try the passive biamping using the xpa-5 channel for the bass like another member suggested earlier - then trial running a single connection to an XPR-1 amp to see what the differences are. Please keep us informed how this turns out if you do try this. Good luck Hey bits, I'll deffenitly try this as well as try bi-a ping with a set of XPA-1Ls that I have. I've found a small difference in the single channel XPA-5 compared to the sound from the single XPA-1L. I will keep all up to date with my findings, especially when the CC-690 comes in. Thanks for everyone's opinion, I sure do appreciate the input!! 8)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 22:59:22 GMT -5
I have multi-channel music too, concert blu-rays, DVD-A and SACD discs, and I have a perfectly smooth coherent spread across the front with the XPA-3 driving my center and rears and the XPA-1's driving my mains, if I had a Signature SE as my center speaker then I could possible see the point in driving it with an XPA-1 if I was really really picky, but I just don't see the point when pretty much every center speaker is different from the main L&R.
No harm in doing it of course, I just think it's a unnecessary. If you don't have a center speaker that is perfectly voice/timbre matched to the L&R (most brands offer this with the center speaker having the same exact tweeter and many times same mid as their L&R speakers in the same series) then you might have a spread that is close but never perfect (the speaker here is much more important than the amp). Many folks mistakenly think the center speaker is primarily for movie dialog. Unfortunately, you are correct when you say pretty much every speaker is different in most (I say many) peoples systems, if by that you mean not matched from the same series. IMO that is a big mistake many folks make, having mismatched center speakers.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 1, 2015 0:19:44 GMT -5
I have multi-channel music too, concert blu-rays, DVD-A and SACD discs, and I have a perfectly smooth coherent spread across the front with the XPA-3 driving my center and rears and the XPA-1's driving my mains, if I had a Signature SE as my center speaker then I could possible see the point in driving it with an XPA-1 if I was really really picky, but I just don't see the point when pretty much every center speaker is different from the main L&R. No harm in doing it of course, I just think it's a unnecessary. Have you tested the center hooked up to your XPA-1? Just for grins, if you switch your center amp to the XPA-1 and the L or R to the XPA-3.
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Post by guzz46 on Feb 1, 2015 1:27:35 GMT -5
Unfortunately, you are correct when you say pretty much every speaker is different in most (I say many) peoples systems, if by that you mean not matched from the same series. IMO that is a big mistake many folks make, having mismatched center speakers. By different I mean not the same speaker as the L&R, eg... a CC690 isn't a Studio 100, you wouldn't have a Studio 100 for your left channel and a CC690 for your right channel, even though they're timbre matched, the frequency response is different between them, they crossover at different points, the enclosure's are a different size, the ports are different etc... so they will sound slightly different, that's why I don't see the point in using the exact same amp that drives your L&R to drive your center.
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Post by guzz46 on Feb 1, 2015 1:39:16 GMT -5
No, that would be WAY too much hard work, squeezing in behind my rack disconnecting this and connecting that, plus my L&R speaker cables are 1 meter long Wireworld Eclipse that are really stiff, its hard enough even getting the spades tight sometimes, once you have it all connected you don't want to go through it again, I don't think my center channel speaker cable would span the gap of positive & negative terminals on the XPA-1's either, even if I wanted to try it I don't think I have the speaker cables to make it work.
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